Debunking the Euro myths
Discussion
I've been looking for this for months, and finally found it tonight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqVJEZnYiZo
Especially worth a watch if you're on the sceptic side of the fence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqVJEZnYiZo
Especially worth a watch if you're on the sceptic side of the fence
The 70% of our laws that supposedly now come from the EU are all pretty much along the same lines though, we would/did have them anyway. That's the trouble with most laws, all countries tend to have exactly the same ones. Don't murder, don't steal, don't use food colouring E645 as it's been found to be harmful and so banned. It would be more accurate to say that 70% of our laws are coincidentally shared with the EU, rather than they have imposed them upon us.
Jasandjules said:
rs1952 said:
Especially worth a watch if you're on the sceptic side of the fence
Why? I read EU Law books, and various other articles pertaining to the EU, how it makes policy etc. That is what made me a sceptic in the first place...No clip on youtube will convince me that this is a good idea, presenting the facts in a well written and unbiased manner together with a referendum, may well have changed my mind on the EU, but hey ho, guess I’m too stupid to get a say, but the link below would suggest otherwise
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
rs1952 said:
I've been looking for this for months, and finally found it tonight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqVJEZnYiZo
Especially worth a watch if you're on the sceptic side of the fence
You are Herman van Rompuy AICMFP!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqVJEZnYiZo
Especially worth a watch if you're on the sceptic side of the fence
Balmoral Green said:
The 70% of our laws that supposedly now come from the EU are all pretty much along the same lines though, we would/did have them anyway. That's the trouble with most laws, all countries tend to have exactly the same ones. Don't murder, don't steal, don't use food colouring E645 as it's been found to be harmful and so banned. It would be more accurate to say that 70% of our laws are coincidentally shared with the EU, rather than they have imposed them upon us.
The vast majority of EU laws are "standards", things that would normally have been done with statutory instruments (ie passed with no vote by the executive without reference to parliament). The house of conmans wouldn't be voting to decide how fireproof bus seats need to be for example.The EU still has plenty of problems though, the biggest is probably CAP. I also think that cross border judicial cooperation also needs a very good look at, I'm not sure I trust all of the EU legal systems for example.
AndrewW-G said:
No clip on youtube will convince me that this is a good idea, presenting the facts in a well written and unbiased manner together with a referendum, may well have changed my mind on the EU...
Right on. A referendum where the decision is going to be made by people who have their opinions formed by the complete b
ks that they read in The Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express amongst others. Or in your case, the Torygraph.Brilliant. Just what we need. The economic future of the country decided on the basis of scare stories about bent bananas, fishermen in hair nets, and the Belgian Emperor of Europe. I'm not surprised that the politicians are steering well clear of referenda.
Incredible Sulk said:
AndrewW-G said:
No clip on youtube will convince me that this is a good idea, presenting the facts in a well written and unbiased manner together with a referendum, may well have changed my mind on the EU...
Right on. A referendum where the decision is going to be made by people who have their opinions formed by the complete bks that they read in The Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express amongst others. Or in your case, the Torygraph.Brilliant. Just what we need. The economic future of the country decided on the basis of scare stories about bent bananas, fishermen in hair nets, and the Belgian Emperor of Europe. I'm not surprised that the politicians are steering well clear of referenda.
Why would the Scottish fool go back on his election promise to hold a referendum, if the Lisbon treaty made sense to and was of positive benefit to the people of the UK?
AndrewW-G said:
Incredible Sulk said:
AndrewW-G said:
No clip on youtube will convince me that this is a good idea, presenting the facts in a well written and unbiased manner together with a referendum, may well have changed my mind on the EU...
Right on. A referendum where the decision is going to be made by people who have their opinions formed by the complete bks that they read in The Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express amongst others. Or in your case, the Torygraph.Brilliant. Just what we need. The economic future of the country decided on the basis of scare stories about bent bananas, fishermen in hair nets, and the Belgian Emperor of Europe. I'm not surprised that the politicians are steering well clear of referenda.
Or even better, a vote shouldn't simply be a vote for a candidate or a party. Maybe the vote should actually be an exam, comprising of a series of questions with multiple choice answers, and you pick the ones that suit your politics. You don't vote for a party or a candidate at all, and the selection is made based on folks understanding of the multitude of issues on various subjects and ticking the answer they best agree/strongly disagree with. All this is then cross referenced/collated into a result and a win for the group that best fits what the majority want.
A bit like the political compass test, but more focused for the local or National issues in an election.
Balmoral Green said:
AndrewW-G said:
Incredible Sulk said:
AndrewW-G said:
No clip on youtube will convince me that this is a good idea, presenting the facts in a well written and unbiased manner together with a referendum, may well have changed my mind on the EU...
Right on. A referendum where the decision is going to be made by people who have their opinions formed by the complete bks that they read in The Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express amongst others. Or in your case, the Torygraph.Brilliant. Just what we need. The economic future of the country decided on the basis of scare stories about bent bananas, fishermen in hair nets, and the Belgian Emperor of Europe. I'm not surprised that the politicians are steering well clear of referenda.
Or even better, a vote shouldn't simply be a vote for a candidate or a party. Maybe the vote should actually be an exam, comprising of a series of questions with multiple choice answers, and you pick the ones that suit your politics. You don't vote for a party or a candidate at all, and the selection is made based on folks understanding of the multitude of issues on various subjects and ticking the answer they best agree/strongly disagree with. All this is then cross referenced/collated into a result and a win for the group that best fits what the majority want.
A bit like the political compass test, but more focused for the local or National issues in an election.
Whilst I wouldn’t have a problem if voting was only open to those with the intelligence to make an informed choice, it would rather destroy any slight notion of democracy that we have left.
The true downside is that as we’ve all seen with politicians and winky in particular, simply having the intelligence to have an opinion doesn’t automatically make your choice the correct one. In the case of winky, even the most rabid of his detractors couldn’t in all honestly say that the man isn’t intelligent, there is as we all know there can be a great difference between somebody who is intelligent and somebody who is wise
AndrewW-G said:
Incredible Sulk said:
AndrewW-G said:
No clip on youtube will convince me that this is a good idea, presenting the facts in a well written and unbiased manner together with a referendum, may well have changed my mind on the EU...
Right on. A referendum where the decision is going to be made by people who have their opinions formed by the complete bks that they read in The Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express amongst others. Or in your case, the Torygraph.Brilliant. Just what we need. The economic future of the country decided on the basis of scare stories about bent bananas, fishermen in hair nets, and the Belgian Emperor of Europe. I'm not surprised that the politicians are steering well clear of referenda.
Why would the Scottish fool go back on his election promise to hold a referendum, if the Lisbon treaty made sense to and was of positive benefit to the people of the UK?
What I'm saying is that there are a lot of people out there that won't look at or think about the issues, but will make up their minds based on the largely inaccurate, irresponsible and misleading reporting that goes on in the red-tops and the Daily Mail. To use an analogy, if you compared any referendum we might have on any matter European with a criminal trial, the judge would throw it out of court based on the fact that there is no way that the accused could get a fair trial. This, essentially is why we have a parliamentary democracy, and we don't have referenda every 5 minutes. We, the electorate vote for representatives that are generally in accordance with our views on a range of issues, and we leave them to debate and decide the complicated stuff in the knowledge that they will take the time to mull over and understand the issues on our collective behalf. What has thrown a spanner in the works in recent years is the extent to which the politicians have had their agendas driven by the press (unelected, unaccountable, and perhaps unrepresentative) especially on Europe, and are frightened to contradict them.
Re your second point, The Scottish Fool (your words) more than likely went back on his promise because he recognised that the Lisbon treaty isn't a bad thing for Britain when push comes to shove, but that given the inaccurate and hysterical reporting going on in the British media meant that getting a positive result would not be on the cards. If, on the other hand he thought that it (the treaty) is bad for Britain, then why didn't he go for a referendum? He would undoubtedly have got the right result. From your perspective anyway.
Just so you know where I stand on this, I'm not rabidly pro European, I'm not rabidly anti. I think that being in is probably better than being out in the world of tomorrow, where increasingly the important stuff will be decided by the superpowers - of which the EU is one - and a stand-alone Britain isn't and won't be. The EU badly needs reform, but the way to do it isn't by throwing the toys out of the pram and marching out of the club, but by agitating strongly from within, and getting other like minded member countries on our side, and getting the institutions changed.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff