Islam4uk ban

[saaby93]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8453560.stm

This is such a minor group wouldnt it have been better to argue their point of view publicly - as has been done?

[Fuzzy Wuzzy]

saaby93 said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8453560.stm

This is such a minor group wouldnt it have been better to argue their point of view publicly - as has been done?

They are not really a minor group, before the name change they were known as Al-Muhajiroun.

Banning them does seem to go against what this country is meant to stand for, I think allowing a publicly aired dialogue between their leader (Anjem Choudary) and someone who actually knows what Islam is (i.e. some Islamic scholar) would have been a good idea, it would have blown the man's credibility (as if he had any anyway) right away.

Edited by Fuzzy Wuzzy on Tuesday 12th January 10:31

[rev-erend]

He could probably hurt them more by stopping paying their benefits..

[carreauchompeur]

Unfortunately, as much as I value freedom of speech, I wholeheartedly support the banning of such organisations. If you look at other organisations on the banned list it's mainly because they not only glorify acts of terror but are effectively the UK fundraising/facilitation arm.

[10 Pence Short]

That's going to be tough to get around.

They're going to have to get some new letterheads printed and register a new domain.

Yay New Labour!

[kambites]

I think banning them would be absolutely the wrong thing to do. Free speech is meant to be one of our reasons for being able to take the moral high-ground and it's not as if banning the organisation would change the views of its members.

On a side note, I really don't understand why this planned march of their has been so controversial. I think it's absolutely right for someone to raise awareness of the non-British casualties of any war that we participate in.

[AndrewW-G]

Daft question, but how can choudray be claiming benefit, when he's activley running this sort of organisation?

[Chris71]

That's a difficult one - they're obviously bad news, but banning political groups is a slippery slope. This is probably already the most publicity they've ever had.

I'm not religious so perhaps I'm not the best person to comment, but to me it sounds like the answer is to give lots of support to moderate muslim leaders who can denounce the nutters and promote some positive role models instead.

[saaby93]

All this is likley to do is give them some degree of notoriety especially amongst the young, the opposite to what was intended

What was wrong with letting these groups set up
similar to the Peoples Front of Judea
or was it the Judean Popular Peoples front
etc
(apologies to all those who dont know what I'm talking about)

[TEKNOPUG]

AndrewW-G said:

Daft question, but how can choudray be claiming benefit, when he's activley running this sort of organisation?

It's a not for profit organisation in which he doesn't receive a salary......either that or he's a crook.....

[AndrewW-G]

TEKNOPUG said:

AndrewW-G said:

Daft question, but how can choudray be claiming benefit, when he's activley running this sort of organisation?

It's a not for profit organisation in which he doesn't receive a salary......either that or he's a crook.....

I get that, my thought was, that if he's in receipt of benefits, then he's either going to claim that he's unemployed / looking for work or sick. Either way his campaigning would strongly that he was neither of these things and therefore note entitled to any form of benefit

Edited by AndrewW-G on Tuesday 12th January 10:47

[bonsai]

Militant islamists are pure detritus who need to be ground down to slurry and fed to pigs, however it's not these mouthy gobstes who will be blowing up the next tube/plane/whatever, it'll be the quiet, clean shaven one who is off the security forces radar.

[saaby93]

here we go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
watch out for strong language

[rs1952]

JacksHereR said:

kambites said:

I think banning them would be absolutely the wrong thing to do. Free speech is meant to be one of our reasons for being able to take the moral high-ground and it's not as if banning the organisation would change the views of its members.

On a side note, I really don't understand why this planned march of their has been so controversial. I think it's absolutely right for someone to raise awareness of the non-British casualties of any war that we participate in.

the problem is we do not hold the moral high ground. quickly shut them up before people start thinking or asking questions.

Historically, banning organisations never did any long term good. In fact, quite often it drives people towards their cause rather than away from it.

Anybody remember the antics of yesteryear in Northern Ireland or South Africa?

We should be big enough to put down organisations such as this by force of argument, rather than force of law.

On the side issue, Wootton Bassett is less than 15 miles up the road from me. There was never any application received by the police to hold that march. I believe that it was simply posturing from the word go.

[Halb]

benefits scrounger said:

"That's something I must do, and ultimately I will pay whatever price I need to for my belief.because I know I can claim it all back from the taxpayer anyway"

[scenario8]

kambites said:

I think banning them would be absolutely the wrong thing to do. Free speech is meant to be one of our reasons for being able to take the moral high-ground and it's not as if banning the organisation would change the views of its members.

On a side note, I really don't understand why this planned march of their has been so controversial. I think it's absolutely right for someone to raise awareness of the non-British casualties of any war that we participate in.

That's not the first time you've posted a sensible response. Has no-one explained to you you're supposed to be simplistic and reactionary on this forum?

Banning thought is rarely a good idea. Highlighting the ridiculousness of it, is in my opinion, a more effective method of challenging it. Not that these issues are ever going to be easy to solve.

[Halb]

It just comes down to one thing doesn't it? Is this group supporting, funding, spreading, committing or inciting terrorism? If they are, they get banned, if they are not, let them say what they like in our near (best as we can do at the mo) democracy?

[scenario8]

"Historically, banning organisations never did any long term good. In fact, quite often it drives people towards their cause rather than away from it.

Anybody remember the antics of yesteryear in Northern Ireland or South Africa?"

I was in a flat in that heartland of Ulster nationalism known as Croydon earlier this week and was a little surprised to find UFF posters, flags and the like proudly on display inside AND OUTSIDE the place.

That hasn't happened in a while.

edited cos I messed up me quotes

Edited by scenario8 on Tuesday 12th January 11:35

[Saddle bum]

FFS stop whinging on about their rights etc. They have the right to leave. Their objective is to destroy western civilisation, make all the guys grow beards and put our women into bhurkas. If the Anglo-Saxon race cannot summon up the cajones to pulp this lot into pig food sooner or later, all will be lost and a new dark age will be aupon us.

[G_T]

kambites said:

I think banning them would be absolutely the wrong thing to do. Free speech is meant to be one of our reasons for being able to take the moral high-ground and it's not as if banning the organisation would change the views of its members.

On a side note, I really don't understand why this planned march of their has been so controversial. I think it's absolutely right for someone to raise awareness of the non-British casualties of any war that we participate in.

Totally agree with your first point. Freedom of speech should always prevail no matter how offensive. As suggested elsewhere I'm sure an Islamic leader would quite happily have dressed them down on a TV debate.

The reason it was so controversial is because their protest breached public order. They branded slogan "soldiers are murderers" or similar at a military parade. Quite frankly I think they were very lucky not to have incurred any physical injury.