Terrorist network in Britain is a security threat
Discussion
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article69...
US security officials claim the level of al-Qaeda activity in the UK poses a major security threat at home and abroad.
Interesting read
S
US security officials claim the level of al-Qaeda activity in the UK poses a major security threat at home and abroad.
Interesting read
S
Hmm. Freedom (of thought and expression) versus conformity.
I notice no stats are given in the article. If London is known as Londonistan, how many of the residents are Muslim, and of those, how many are extremist? And of those how many are considered likely to act on those beliefs?
How come the USA wasn't worried about the IRA? Was it because some of their citizens were helping to fund it? Were those US citizens not extremists? Of course not
I notice no stats are given in the article. If London is known as Londonistan, how many of the residents are Muslim, and of those, how many are extremist? And of those how many are considered likely to act on those beliefs?
How come the USA wasn't worried about the IRA? Was it because some of their citizens were helping to fund it? Were those US citizens not extremists? Of course not
The Americans are quite rightly IMHO only interested in things that affect them, hence little interest in any country that doesnt have something that they need or want.
In the case of the IRA in the 70's-02ish they didnt affect the US and the IRA was in part funded by the large Irish community in the US, so no danger of anything going boom in washington and no interest in asisting in the resolution of our problem.
Militant Islam IS a problem to the US, in that if allowed to take hold, it is incompatible with certain key parts of the US culture
In the case of the IRA in the 70's-02ish they didnt affect the US and the IRA was in part funded by the large Irish community in the US, so no danger of anything going boom in washington and no interest in asisting in the resolution of our problem.
Militant Islam IS a problem to the US, in that if allowed to take hold, it is incompatible with certain key parts of the US culture
All the years of doing nothing - even after 9/11 - to stop people like Abu Hamze and Andy Choudary preaching hate in the middle of the street and calling for people to be stoned to death etc etc , have caught up now.
Doing something now is to tackle a problem that long predates 9/11 where no action has been taken.
Doing something now is to tackle a problem that long predates 9/11 where no action has been taken.
I'm baffled. I really am. We welcome others with extremist views, who then take full advantage of our liberal culture to further their own fulture. If I were a cynic, I'd say the reason we haven't been attacked properly yet is because our counrty is too useful to them at the moment. We are an embarassment to the US, and rightly so.
pacman1 said:
I'm baffled. I really am. We welcome others with extremist views, who then take full advantage of our liberal culture to further their own fulture. If I were a cynic, I'd say the reason we haven't been attacked properly yet is because our counrty is too useful to them at the moment. We are an embarassment to the US, and rightly so.
From a domestic viewpoint, why do we care what the USA think? Plenty of people have extremist views, but thought is not (as yet) a crime... I despise (religious) extremism, but am very wary of legislating against freedom of thought and speech - what if my views are the next to be deemed unacceptable?
Its word games, and a nod to the expectation of having to say something.
Where do you think is the easiest place to monitor possible bombers in and from?
Its not some piss poor third world s
tehole like pakistan, its in the UK, in London where intelligence agencies have full resources and the freedom to operate within a normal society.
It suits everyone to have them here.
Where do you think is the easiest place to monitor possible bombers in and from?
Its not some piss poor third world s
tehole like pakistan, its in the UK, in London where intelligence agencies have full resources and the freedom to operate within a normal society.It suits everyone to have them here.
ewenm said:
pacman1 said:
I'm baffled. I really am. We welcome others with extremist views, who then take full advantage of our liberal culture to further their own fulture. If I were a cynic, I'd say the reason we haven't been attacked properly yet is because our counrty is too useful to them at the moment. We are an embarassment to the US, and rightly so.
From a domestic viewpoint, why do we care what the USA think? ewenm said:
I despise (religious) extremism, but am very wary of legislating against freedom of thought and speech - what if my views are the next to be deemed unacceptable?
I think we should worry about the current extremist threat first, because if we don't, yours and my views are likely to be deemed so, don't you, infidel?
rich1231 said:
Its not some piss poor third world stehole like pakistan, its in the UK, in London where intelligence agencies have full resources and the freedom to operate within a normal society.
It suits everyone to have them here.
tehole like pakistan, its in the UK, in London where intelligence agencies have full resources and the freedom to operate within a normal society.It suits everyone to have them here.
What he said, plus dont forget that some of the people involved were born here and have every right to live as they like in this country.
If we start to legislate against people born in this country, the almost inevitable civil war will start just that little bit earlier than if we dont
ewenm said:
Do you really think we're in danger of becoming an Islamic nation?
I can't see it in my lifetime. 
However,
Angem Choudary said:
"...but I can't stop being a Muslim, I can't stop propagating Islam, I can't stop praying, I can't stop calling for the Sharia.
"That's something I must do, and ultimately I will pay whatever price I need to for my belief."
Now that worries me. I can't see any sign of restraint in those sentiments. There is no acknowledgement to "When in Rome...""That's something I must do, and ultimately I will pay whatever price I need to for my belief."
It was taken from here, so you can see context and entirety.
It's not a straight forward issue though. We have a British foreign policy which isn't popular with many either at home or abroad. Something I don't fully agree with either, and I can see why some harbour anti-Western sentiments.
AndrewW-G said:
rich1231 said:
Its not some piss poor third world stehole like pakistan, its in the UK, in London where intelligence agencies have full resources and the freedom to operate within a normal society.
It suits everyone to have them here.
tehole like pakistan, its in the UK, in London where intelligence agencies have full resources and the freedom to operate within a normal society.It suits everyone to have them here.
What he said, plus dont forget that some of the people involved were born here and have every right to live as they like in this country.
If we start to legislate against people born in this country, the almost inevitable civil war will start just that little bit earlier than if we dont
FourWheelDrift said:
superkartracer said:
Terrorist network in Britain is a security threat
Yep, but they will voted out of office in a few months time.And the extreme faction, the HSE will be wound down and disbanded.
Regarding this whole Freedom of Expression thingy....
The people saying "what if my thoughts are deemed extremist next?";
Well to that I say, that is fear drawn out of the current problems we have with the running of our country. And by that I mean, we're not a democracy anymore, and that is the problem.
The people should be the ones to deem what is and isn't extemist, but the problem we have as a country is that there is a small group of elitists who are actuallly in charge, and decide what is right for the people. Just look at how often Government has gone against the will of the people, e.g.: Iraq, and Europe!
If we had a truly democratic society, then there would be no such fear of our views becoming the next 'extremist' view since as long as the people deemed what was best for them, no majority view (or slight minority view for that matter) would ever be voted/considered extremist.
The problem we have is the way Government thinks it is now 'Bigger' than the people. The guys in Gov think they are better than the common man, and can Tell us what is and isn't right. It's the Orwellian Society that we are heading towards that is the biggest problem.
Yes, the whole point of an elected democracy is that a few are elected to decide things for the majority, but when the decisions made go agaisnt the will of the people, and start restricting the lives of the people, that ceases to be democracy.
tinfoilhatoff
Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Saturday 16th January 23:48
Why should we give one iota of mouldy ste about what the USA think?
Maybe we can write a report stating how the USA currently poses the greatest threat towards global terror by being so fundamentally righteous about their views having superiority over the views of anyone else.
Without Iraq and Afghanistan, our threat from Mr. Osama (does he even do anything, or is he just a convenient poster child?) would be minimal compared to what it is now. As people have said above (although used to argue the other side), we should have done as the USA did when we had IRA problems and just allowed them to sort out their own mess after 9/11. Instead we got drawn into some Good vs. Bad self righteous 'War on Terror'.
Staging a 'War on Terror' was the most ridiculous idea of the past 100 years. Did we honestly think that could eradicate terror, rather than just cause more people to hate us and as a result, inflict more terror upon us?
This whole saga is born of a deep lack of understanding about how the non-Western world works. Now we are at a stage where we are told that we are just 'defending' ourselves from terror, but on paper what it actually boils down to is us killing thousands of innocent civilians on foreign soil. No wonder we are hated!
Just imagine if the tables were turned and some nutter British people had started blowing up planes over the Arab world and then suddenly we found ourselves being forcefully occupied by Saudi Arabia with thousands of our fellow civilians being killed. Do you think we'd all have a laugh about it and say "Thats ok Saudi Arabia, we know you just want to save us whilst at the same time protecting yourself"?
No, we'd get pissed off and at least 40% of us would start to sympathise with British people permitting terrorist acts in Saudi Arabia.
Life isn't just Good vs. Evil. You cannot go and bomb a load of Islamic countries and then wonder why Muslims start to get a bit peeved.
Funny how the same people who say that all Muslims should condemn the terrorists are not asking for all British people to denounce our soldiers killing innocent civilians on Islamic soil. Its just a loop constantly repeating. Team 1 hits Team 2, so Team 2 hits Team 1 in retaliation.
Just for one second put yourself in the shoes of the average Iraqi civilian (or Muslim person living in the Arab world) and imagine that because some nutter under the name of Islam flew a plane into a building on the other side of the world, you are now occupied by a foreign country who in the process killed thousands of your countrymen without showing any remorse and actually having the cheek to dictate to you that what they are doing is a good thing. Now imagine how you would feel towards the USA and its allies.
People in the Arab world see and judge all us innocent civilians as 'Westerners' just as we (as shown on this thread and the comments in the Times article) see them as just 'Muslims', ready to judge them all on that basis, so we cannot claim the moral high ground.
te about what the USA think?Maybe we can write a report stating how the USA currently poses the greatest threat towards global terror by being so fundamentally righteous about their views having superiority over the views of anyone else.
Without Iraq and Afghanistan, our threat from Mr. Osama (does he even do anything, or is he just a convenient poster child?) would be minimal compared to what it is now. As people have said above (although used to argue the other side), we should have done as the USA did when we had IRA problems and just allowed them to sort out their own mess after 9/11. Instead we got drawn into some Good vs. Bad self righteous 'War on Terror'.
Staging a 'War on Terror' was the most ridiculous idea of the past 100 years. Did we honestly think that could eradicate terror, rather than just cause more people to hate us and as a result, inflict more terror upon us?
This whole saga is born of a deep lack of understanding about how the non-Western world works. Now we are at a stage where we are told that we are just 'defending' ourselves from terror, but on paper what it actually boils down to is us killing thousands of innocent civilians on foreign soil. No wonder we are hated!
Just imagine if the tables were turned and some nutter British people had started blowing up planes over the Arab world and then suddenly we found ourselves being forcefully occupied by Saudi Arabia with thousands of our fellow civilians being killed. Do you think we'd all have a laugh about it and say "Thats ok Saudi Arabia, we know you just want to save us whilst at the same time protecting yourself"?
No, we'd get pissed off and at least 40% of us would start to sympathise with British people permitting terrorist acts in Saudi Arabia.
Life isn't just Good vs. Evil. You cannot go and bomb a load of Islamic countries and then wonder why Muslims start to get a bit peeved.
Funny how the same people who say that all Muslims should condemn the terrorists are not asking for all British people to denounce our soldiers killing innocent civilians on Islamic soil. Its just a loop constantly repeating. Team 1 hits Team 2, so Team 2 hits Team 1 in retaliation.
Just for one second put yourself in the shoes of the average Iraqi civilian (or Muslim person living in the Arab world) and imagine that because some nutter under the name of Islam flew a plane into a building on the other side of the world, you are now occupied by a foreign country who in the process killed thousands of your countrymen without showing any remorse and actually having the cheek to dictate to you that what they are doing is a good thing. Now imagine how you would feel towards the USA and its allies.
People in the Arab world see and judge all us innocent civilians as 'Westerners' just as we (as shown on this thread and the comments in the Times article) see them as just 'Muslims', ready to judge them all on that basis, so we cannot claim the moral high ground.
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