Equality and HR Commission at it again

[singlecoil]

In a blatant piece of self publication attention seeking, the E&HRC have had a go at body scanners in airports

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/72420...

"In the letter, the commission said it recognised the threat posed by terrorist activities but that it had concerns ''about the apparent absence of safeguards to ensure the body scanners are operated in a lawful, fair and non-discriminatory manner''. "

Edited by singlecoil on Monday 15th February 20:02

[Heliosphan]

At the end of the day, which group of people are most likely to attempt to bring down a plane? Young Asian men. Therefore every young Asian man should be walking through a scanner of this kind.

What's the problem with that?

Edited by Heliosphan on Monday 15th February 20:18

[odyssey2200]

Heliosphan said:

At the end of the day, which group of people are most likely to attempt to bring down a plane? Young Asian men. Therefore every young Asian man should be walking through a scanner of this kind.

What's the problem with that?

Edited by Heliosphan on Monday 15th February 20:18

None.

[Timsta]

Young Asian guys like this?



Um, hang on... He's not Asian at all.

[grumbledoak]

As far as reported, I agree with everything they say.

[bga]

Timsta said:

Young Asian guys like this?



Um, hang on... He's not Asian at all.

Don't forget

Not Asian either.

Edited by bga on Tuesday 16th February 09:31

[Jasandjules]

grumbledoak said:

As far as reported, I agree with everything they say.

Me too, hard not to really.

[singlecoil]

Jasandjules said:

grumbledoak said:

As far as reported, I agree with everything they say.

Me too, hard not to really.

Well I don't. It seems to me that their argument is that body scanners might be operated in a way that is not fair and is discriminatory. But the same thing could be said about many other things, for instance, a bus. That could be operated in a discriminatory manner, but there are laws in place to deal with this, and those laws can equally be applied to the people who operate body scanners.

[Heliosphan]

bga said:

Timsta said:

Young Asian guys like this?



Um, hang on... He's not Asian at all.

Don't forget

Not Asian either.

Edited by bga on Tuesday 16th February 09:31

Profiling isn't really a difficult thing to understand but it seems you have trouble with it.

No security will be 100% fool-proof and I did say "most likely" so stop being an arse.

Edited by Heliosphan on Tuesday 16th February 19:39

[elster]

Heliosphan said:

bga said:

Timsta said:

Young Asian guys like this?



Um, hang on... He's not Asian at all.

Don't forget

Not Asian either.

Edited by bga on Tuesday 16th February 09:31

Profiling isn't really a difficult thing to understand but it seems you have trouble with it.

No security will be 100% fool-proof and I did say "most likely" so stop being an arse.

Edited by Heliosphan on Tuesday 16th February 19:39

But these are the two main guys who are the reason we have the extra security measures.

So on your profiling it is 100% useless.

Edited by elster on Tuesday 16th February 19:43

[bga]

Heliosphan said:

Profiling isn't really a difficult thing to understand but it seems you have trouble with it.

No security will be 100% fool-proof and I did say "most likely" so stop being an arse.

You have 2 quite high profile examples of why profiling young Asian males would make little difference. Your perception of security would be increased until someone took the not so great leap in thinking and indoctrinated some other non-Asian into blowing up a plane. Like they already have.

Profiling (of many things and situations - not just people) is very useful as long as you are basing it on the right characteristics and use it effectively. Focussing your attention on young Asian men would not have stopped the guys that we showed you.

[Heliosphan]

bga said:

Heliosphan said:

Profiling isn't really a difficult thing to understand but it seems you have trouble with it.

No security will be 100% fool-proof and I did say "most likely" so stop being an arse.

You have 2 quite high profile examples of why profiling young Asian males would make little difference. Your perception of security would be increased until someone took the not so great leap in thinking and indoctrinated some other non-Asian into blowing up a plane. Like they already have.

Profiling (of many things and situations - not just people) is very useful as long as you are basing it on the right characteristics and use it effectively. Focussing your attention on young Asian men would not have stopped the guys that we showed you.

Profiling young Asian men would make little difference?

You're so wrong.

What about the 911 bombers? What about other attempted and failed attacks? What about the London bombers? They could have targetted planes could they not? Not all but a clear majority of young men of Asian descent.

If you want to talk about profiling, the thing about the two guys you mention is that both of them should have been picked up if intelligence and profiling was used correctly. The shoe bomber spent years learning how to be a terrorist in pakistan and the other was already on a "watch list".

At the end of the day, you'd scan anyone of Asian descent, anyone from certain other countries (Somalia, Nigeria and the like) and anyone who has visited such countries.

[bga]

Heliosphan said:

Profiling young Asian men would make little difference?

You're so wrong.

What about the 911 bombers? What about other attempted and failed attacks? What about the London bombers? They could have targetted planes could they not? Not all but a clear majority of young men of Asian descent.

If you want to talk about profiling, the thing about the two guys you mention is that both of them should have been picked up if intelligence and profiling was used correctly. The shoe bomber spent years learning how to be a terrorist in pakistan and the other was already on a "watch list".

At the end of the day, you'd scan anyone of Asian descent, anyone from certain other countries (Somalia, Nigeria and the like) and anyone who has visited such countries.

The 911 bombers were mainly Saudi - most would class them as Arabs. Do we extend the term "Asian" look to people who are a few shades darker than European? Do we now also add in a few colours that represent Jamaican? It's such a wooly measure that is so easy for someone with intent to bypass the control. It's being done in Iraq with the increasing use of women as suicide bombers. That's why screening a particular group is much more about perceived security than actual security - why not scan everyone? I would be happy with that, seeing my naked outline is going to be worse for them than it will be for me.
Imagine them scanning everyone in Heathrow T5 - is so poorly designed that it would take a week to get through to departures!

I completely agree with your point about the correct use of profiling. IMO this is where they should be investing the money that they are diverting into visual measures that make people feel better.