If it were Ford or GM, would they have to go through this..?
Discussion
Not exactly right... Ford got cited to a congressional hearing about their Ford Exploder as did a tyre company (IIRR Firestone) for faulty tyres...
AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Edited by JMGS4 on Friday 19th February 11:04
Yes, Ford has gone through this. They were called before congress about the Explorer/Firestone tragedy.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95685&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95685&page=1
JMGS4 said:
Not exactly right... Ford got cited to a congressional hearing about their Ford Exploder as did a tyre company (IIRR Firestone) for faulty tyres...
AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Toyota knew about a potential problem which only appeared in the vehicle's lifecycle and has now manifested itself and caused a handful of accidents with fatalities.AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Ford knew in pre-production testing about the Explorer's rollover risk making only minor changes before release to market. Ford and Firestone covered over documents relating to the tread delamination issue. This issue caused several hundred deaths and thousands of injuries.
Yeah, clearly comparing apples with apples there...
emicen said:
JMGS4 said:
Not exactly right... Ford got cited to a congressional hearing about their Ford Exploder as did a tyre company (IIRR Firestone) for faulty tyres...
AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Toyota knew about a potential problem which only appeared in the vehicle's lifecycle and has now manifested itself and caused a handful of accidents with fatalities.AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Ford knew in pre-production testing about the Explorer's rollover risk making only minor changes before release to market. Ford and Firestone covered over documents relating to the tread delamination issue. This issue caused several hundred deaths and thousands of injuries.
Yeah, clearly comparing apples with apples there...
Every engineer knows that a high C of G means a higher risk of roll over. All SUVs still have the same physics to contend with today, but all the major manufacturers still build them, many of them probably making minor changes to improve performance in the last couple of months before release to market. As far as I know Ford showed/proved the Explorer was at least as safe as the others in the market.
Regards cover ups, I don't know the facts about it, so I shouldn't comment
Kawasicki said:
emicen said:
JMGS4 said:
Not exactly right... Ford got cited to a congressional hearing about their Ford Exploder as did a tyre company (IIRR Firestone) for faulty tyres...
AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Toyota knew about a potential problem which only appeared in the vehicle's lifecycle and has now manifested itself and caused a handful of accidents with fatalities.AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Ford knew in pre-production testing about the Explorer's rollover risk making only minor changes before release to market. Ford and Firestone covered over documents relating to the tread delamination issue. This issue caused several hundred deaths and thousands of injuries.
Yeah, clearly comparing apples with apples there...
Every engineer knows that a high C of G means a higher risk of roll over. All SUVs still have the same physics to contend with today, but all the major manufacturers still build them, many of them probably making minor changes to improve performance in the last couple of months before release to market. As far as I know Ford showed/proved the Explorer was at least as safe as the others in the market.
Regards cover ups, I don't know the facts about it, so I shouldn't comment
In this case, you have a foreign manufacturer being hauled over the coals after a small number of deaths and a proactive response.
In the Ford/Firestone instance there were many hundreds of deaths and they were only called upon after a massive investigation in to an internal cover up.
Not exactly surprising in America. (and before any American on here starts, I actually have a great deal of respect for how nationally protective they are with industry, but it doesnt make this scenario at all surprising)
emicen said:
JMGS4 said:
Not exactly right... Ford got cited to a congressional hearing about their Ford Exploder as did a tyre company (IIRR Firestone) for faulty tyres...
AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Toyota knew about a potential problem which only appeared in the vehicle's lifecycle and has now manifested itself and caused a handful of accidents with fatalities.AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Ford knew in pre-production testing about the Explorer's rollover risk making only minor changes before release to market. Ford and Firestone covered over documents relating to the tread delamination issue. This issue caused several hundred deaths and thousands of injuries.
Yeah, clearly comparing apples with apples there...
Edited by fido on Friday 19th February 12:44
I've been wandering for the past few weeks what Toyota did to get all this "witch hunting"!
Both in the US and the UK there are clearly set guidelines by regulating authorities (VOSA and the DVLA in the UK) for when a manufacturer must issue a safety recall. I can't remember the exact criteria but it relates to a certain % of vehicles of the model concerned having reported issues of the same nature. This is determined from the manufacturers own warranty and in service technical reporting. In all cases the manufacturers go to the regulators and make them aware of issues, the regulator has no way of getting the information otherwise.
It would be interesting to see how many recalls have been issued in the past 12 months. I'm reasonably confident that the results would show Toyota to be far from alone in doing so.
In the past I worked for a major vehicle manufacturer, and on at least 4 occassions over a 15 year period I can off the top of my head think of recalls with bigger numbers of vehicles affected and potentially more serious consequences.
Both in the US and the UK there are clearly set guidelines by regulating authorities (VOSA and the DVLA in the UK) for when a manufacturer must issue a safety recall. I can't remember the exact criteria but it relates to a certain % of vehicles of the model concerned having reported issues of the same nature. This is determined from the manufacturers own warranty and in service technical reporting. In all cases the manufacturers go to the regulators and make them aware of issues, the regulator has no way of getting the information otherwise.
It would be interesting to see how many recalls have been issued in the past 12 months. I'm reasonably confident that the results would show Toyota to be far from alone in doing so.
In the past I worked for a major vehicle manufacturer, and on at least 4 occassions over a 15 year period I can off the top of my head think of recalls with bigger numbers of vehicles affected and potentially more serious consequences.
I don't understand. The world changes, after the Explorer debacle I have no doubt that the US Govt decided it would be far tougher and far more proactive in pursuing issues with vehicle manufacturers than they had been in the past. Thus Toyota cops for it this time. If it had been Ford this time, I have no doubt that the US Govt would have responded in the same way. People bleating on about unfair Americans or Toyota being unfairly hit need to keep in mind that people have suffered as a result of faults that Toyota knew about over a YEAR ago, but did nothing to redress! No sympathy from me for Mr Toyota.
Andy
Andy
damn throttle could have stuck yesterday on I-81. god I hate that road. what good is owning a Toyota if the throttle doesn't stick on I-81? i mean, I could call the cops "yeah, throttle's stuck, but i reckon i should have it fixed by the time I hit the Tennessee border in about 230 miles".
emicen said:
Kawasicki said:
emicen said:
JMGS4 said:
Not exactly right... Ford got cited to a congressional hearing about their Ford Exploder as did a tyre company (IIRR Firestone) for faulty tyres...
AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Toyota knew about a potential problem which only appeared in the vehicle's lifecycle and has now manifested itself and caused a handful of accidents with fatalities.AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Ford knew in pre-production testing about the Explorer's rollover risk making only minor changes before release to market. Ford and Firestone covered over documents relating to the tread delamination issue. This issue caused several hundred deaths and thousands of injuries.
Yeah, clearly comparing apples with apples there...
Every engineer knows that a high C of G means a higher risk of roll over. All SUVs still have the same physics to contend with today, but all the major manufacturers still build them, many of them probably making minor changes to improve performance in the last couple of months before release to market. As far as I know Ford showed/proved the Explorer was at least as safe as the others in the market.
Regards cover ups, I don't know the facts about it, so I shouldn't comment
In this case, you have a foreign manufacturer being hauled over the coals after a small number of deaths and a proactive response.
In the Ford/Firestone instance there were many hundreds of deaths and they were only called upon after a massive investigation in to an internal cover up.
Not exactly surprising in America. (and before any American on here starts, I actually have a great deal of respect for how nationally protective they are with industry, but it doesnt make this scenario at all surprising)
fido said:
emicen said:
JMGS4 said:
Not exactly right... Ford got cited to a congressional hearing about their Ford Exploder as did a tyre company (IIRR Firestone) for faulty tyres...
AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Toyota knew about a potential problem which only appeared in the vehicle's lifecycle and has now manifested itself and caused a handful of accidents with fatalities.AND considering Toyota apparently knew about the problem over a year ago and dragged their feet about it, why shouldn't they be called to account? It's certainly more than our weak bunch of socialist spivs called a government would do
Ford knew in pre-production testing about the Explorer's rollover risk making only minor changes before release to market. Ford and Firestone covered over documents relating to the tread delamination issue. This issue caused several hundred deaths and thousands of injuries.
Yeah, clearly comparing apples with apples there...
Edited by fido on Friday 19th February 12:44
Jimbeaux said:
Much of the Lexus product is built in a Toyota factory, why expect so much difference?
Same reason i would expect better from an Audi (compared to a VW) 
Also, Lexus used to hit the top three positions in customer surveys (or used to) whereas Toyota on it's own never seem to quite get there. I'm pretty sure the engines are different as well - it's not just a hyped up Toyota. I hear people raving about their Lexii/Lexus(es?) especially the IS-range but no one tells me how f*g great their Auris is (though i was impressed when i sat in a 180PS 2.2 diesel).
Edited by fido on Sunday 21st February 01:03
fido said:
Jimbeaux said:
Much of the Lexus product is built in a Toyota factory, why expect so much difference?
Same reason i would expect better from an Audi (compared to a VW) Also, Lexus used to hit the top three positions in customer surveys (or used to) whereas Toyota on it's own never seem to quite get there. I'm pretty sure the engines are different as well - it's not just a hyped up Toyota. I hear people raving about their Lexii/Lexus(es?) especially the IS-range but no one tells me how f*g great their Auris is (though i was impressed when i sat in a 180PS 2.2 diesel).
Edited by fido on Sunday 21st February 01:03
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