Our pensions are screwed, Brown again
Discussion
There are two kinds of pension in this country:
private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
Zod said:
There are two kinds of pension in this country:
private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
Do you really see that happening even though it absolutely has to be done?private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
The seeds of destruction Brown has sowed on this country are nothing short of treason.
Zod said:
There are two kinds of pension in this country:
private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
...and public sector pensions are so good, i.e. so expensive to fund (by the private sector) that such a pension is totally impossible to purchase privately.private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
If it's so good join the Public sector..then you too can get a 'free' pension that you actually pay 11% of your gross wage into.
Or you can be in the private sector and read all the threads on PH about how you're going to avoid paying tax (that's perfectly ok apparently!!)
Feel free to attack that idiot Brown. The man should be put on trial for treason. Strange you want to attack the pensions of our armed forces and emergency services..you know....otherwise known as Public Sector workers!
Or you can be in the private sector and read all the threads on PH about how you're going to avoid paying tax (that's perfectly ok apparently!!)
Feel free to attack that idiot Brown. The man should be put on trial for treason. Strange you want to attack the pensions of our armed forces and emergency services..you know....otherwise known as Public Sector workers!
Your 11% contribution adds up to about £4.4bn a year, only a fraction of the cost of paying the pensions of existing public sector pensioners. Perhaps 10%.
The rest comes from general taxation - I'd have no difficulty with final-salary pensions in the public sector if the pension funds/bonds/whatever actually existed with which to pay them. But they don't.
And in the meantime Brownian motion has seen to it that it is commercial nonsense for a private sector employer to run a final-salary scheme.
The rest comes from general taxation - I'd have no difficulty with final-salary pensions in the public sector if the pension funds/bonds/whatever actually existed with which to pay them. But they don't.
And in the meantime Brownian motion has seen to it that it is commercial nonsense for a private sector employer to run a final-salary scheme.
Elroy Blue said:
If it's so good join the Public sector..then you too can get a 'free' pension that you actually pay 11% of your gross wage into.
I didn't study and work my arse off for the last ten years to lower myself to sit in a desk in a quango.Elroy Blue said:
Or you can be in the private sector and read all the threads on PH about how you're going to avoid paying tax (that's perfectly ok apparently!!)
I'm paying about 70% of my salary away in various taxes and the country's still f
ked - why should I pay for chavs to have what I have?Elroy Blue said:
Feel free to attack that idiot Brown. The man should be put on trial for treason. Strange you want to attack the pensions of our armed forces and emergency services..you know....otherwise known as Public Sector workers!
No one is looking at the forces or emergency services, I think the ire on here is aimed at the pen pushers and diverrsity tzars...Elroy Blue said:
But 'Public Sector' includes Military and Emergency Services. We also 'work our arse off' and pay significant tax. It doesn't stop us being labled 'parasites' by many.
I could say the same about the vast majority of bank workers who had nothing to do with the economic crisis but still get labelled as scum - not nice is it?Zod said:
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
Local Govt Pension Scheme said:
The Scheme’s local administering authorities pay benefits and manage
its pension funds within the terms set out in secondary legislation made
under the Superannuation Act 1972. A prudential regulatory framework
provides Scheme pension fund administering authorities with all the
necessary powers to manage and invest their pension funds.
Investment income generated, as well as the operating and other costs
incurred, is the responsibility of the appropriate LGPS administering
authority; any surplus is available to reduce employers’ liabilities and to
re-invest within the authority’s investment strategy.
Sounds a bit like it's funded to me?its pension funds within the terms set out in secondary legislation made
under the Superannuation Act 1972. A prudential regulatory framework
provides Scheme pension fund administering authorities with all the
necessary powers to manage and invest their pension funds.
Investment income generated, as well as the operating and other costs
incurred, is the responsibility of the appropriate LGPS administering
authority; any surplus is available to reduce employers’ liabilities and to
re-invest within the authority’s investment strategy.
Nick_F said:
The rest comes from general taxation - I'd have no difficulty with final-salary pensions in the public sector if the pension funds/bonds/whatever actually existed with which to pay them. But they don't.
Cambridgeshire County Council Pension Fund said:
Top 100 equity holdings at 31 August 2008
Security Description
Nominal
Price
Market Value
HSBC HLDGS ORD USD0.50 (UK)
2,463,627
8.65
21,316,533
VODAFONE GROUP ORD USD0.11428571
14,740,142
1.41
20,783,600
BP PLC ORD USD.25
3,748,345
5.29
19,810,003
GLAXOSMITHKLINE ORD GBP0.25
1,355,646
12.96
17,569,172
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL 'B' SHS
802,750
18.91
15,180,003
ASTRAZENECA ORD USD0.25
457,697
26.92
12,321,203
CENTRICA ORD GBP0.061728395
3,091,261
3.27
10,108,423
BAYER AG ORD NPV
229,004
54.03
9,987,267
STANDARD CHARTERED ORD USD0.50
528,584
14.90
7,875,902
RSA INSURANCE GROUP PLC ORD 27.5P
4,716,511
1.51
7,107,782
CABLE & WIRELESS ORD 25P
3,937,311
1.77
6,984,790
BG GROUP PLC ORD GBP0.10
572,518
12.18
6,973,269
LOGICA ORD GBP0.10
5,156,755
1.34
6,910,052
NESTLE SA CHF0.1 (REGD)
267,498
48.58
6,486,708
MORLEY CENTRAL EUROPEAN
7,407,407
1.07
6,397,623
UNILEVER PLC ORD GBP0.031111
428,573
14.76
6,325,737
DAILY MAIL & GENERAL TRUST 'A' ORD NON-VTG GBP0.
1,702,492
3.71
6,320,502
ANGLO AMERICAN USD0.54(POST CONSOLIDATION)
209,772
29.31
6,148,417
HBOS ORD GBP0.25
1,940,995
3.16
6,123,839
STATOILHYDRO ASA NOK2.50
354,533
167.50
6,019,461
HOME RETAIL GROUP ORD GBP0
2,331,000
2.54
5,909,085
RENTOKIL INITIAL ORD GBP0.01
7,709,379
0.73
5,589,300
LLOYDS TSB GROUP ORD GBP0.25
1,816,631
3.04
5,513,475
KONINKLIJKE KPN NV EUR0.24
583,083
11.60
5,459,552
VIVENDI SA EUR5.5
255,000
26.39
5,431,855
BRITISH SKY BRDCSTG ORD 50P
1,152,685
4.66
5,368,630
PROVIDENT FINANCIAL ORD GBP0.20727272
587,620
9.09
5,341,466
LEGAL & GENERAL GROUP ORD 2.5P
5,184,899
1.00
5,205,639
ALLIANZ SE (SOCIETAS EUROPEAE)
56,189
114.28
5,183,107
TOMKINS ORD USD0.09
3,433,433
1.49
5,098,648
BT GROUP ORD GBP0.05
2,818,557
1.72
4,856,374
NEXT GROUP ORD GBP0.10
456,440
10.60
4,838,264
NATIONAL BK OF GREECE EUR5.0 REGD
157,887
37.66
4,799,493
ALSTOM EUR7 (POST CONSOLIDATION
85,134
69.64
4,785,534
NOVARTIS AG CHF0.50 (REGD)
154,283
61.55
4,740,154
PEARSON ORD GBP0.25
692,915
6.79
4,701,428
GDF SUEZ EUR1
145,236
39.39
4,617,734
DSG INTL ORD GBP0.025
9,354,557
0.49
4,607,119
CAP GEMINI EUR8
140,921
40.45
4,601,113
DS SMITH PLC GBP0.10
3,593,680
1.28
4,599,910
MERCK KGAA NPV
71,199
78.00
4,482,674
E.ON AG NPV
136,067
39.89
4,381,123
OLD MUTUAL ORD GBP0.10
4,435,770
0.98
4,324,876
BAE SYSTEMS ORD GBP0.025
893,656
4.80
4,287,315
ZURICH FINANCIAL SERVICES CHF0.1
28,998
288.25
4,172,378
GROUPE DANONE EUR0.25 (POST SUBDIVISION)
105,382
47.58
4,047,245
TOYOTA MOTOR CORP NPV
159,900
4,920.00
3,974,393
SBM OFFSHORE NV EUR0.25 (POST SUBDIVISION)
295,920
16.55
3,953,129
KONINKLIJKE PHILIPS ELECTRONIC NV EUR0.20
219,223
22.24
3,935,406
FTSE 100 INDEX FUTURE (LIF) EXP SEP 08
67
5,648.50
3,784,495
MITSUBISHI CORP NPV
247,500
3,010.00
3,763,561
FIAT SPA EUR5
435,319
10.57
3,714,080
EASYJET ORD GBP0.25
1,129,000
3.29
3,708,765
TELENOR AS ORD NOK6
427,100
85.60
3,705,864
DEVON ENERGY CORP NEW COM
66,069
102.20
3,701,994
EAST JAPAN RAILWAY CO Y50000
820
868,000.00
3,595,761
NORDICACTIVGEN PART PROPERTYFD
44
100,410.43
3,566,154
SHOPPERS DRUG MART CORP
124,100
55.31
3,550,734
ARCELOR NPV (POST-REORGANISATION)
81,798
53.75
3,548,868
PERNOD-RICARD EUR1.55
68,583
63.98
3,541,843
ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND GRP ORD 25P
1,492,764
2.35
3,500,532
PHILIP MORRIS INTL INC COM
117,166
53.74
3,452,124
FPL GROUP INC COM
101,905
60.07
3,356,141
ABB LTD CHF2.02 (REGD)
239,220
27.14
3,240,811
ABBOTT LABS COM
102,441
57.47
3,227,766
AIR LIQUIDE(L') EUR5.5 (POST-SUBDIVISION)
48,179
82.98
3,227,007
VEOLIA ENVIRONMENT EUR5.0
109,060
36.65
3,226,325
SPRINT NEXTEL CORP COM SER 1
673,575
8.73
3,223,942
IMPERIAL TOBACCO GROUP ORD 10P
175,092
18.11
3,170,916
DISNEY WALT CO COM
176,658
32.37
3,135,184
ILIAD NPV
54,559
70.30
3,095,925
SIEMENS AG NPV REGD
57,174
67.01
3,092,480
QUALCOMM INC
103,647
52.69
2,994,139
BRITISH AMERICAN TOBACCO ORD GBP0.25
160,110
18.60
2,978,046
NINTENDO CO
11,400
51,700.00
2,977,506
ROCHE HLDG AG GENUSSCHEINE NPV
31,031
186.00
2,881,078
MOSAIC CO COM
49,195
106.75
2,879,227
UNILEVER NV CVA EUR0.16
185,425
18.84
2,819,797
MILLICOM INTL CELLULAR SA SHS NEW
63,297
79.42
2,756,132
TRANSOCEAN INC NEW SHS
39,100
127.29
2,728,715
INMARSAT ORD EUR0.000667
528,141
5.12
2,701,441
XSTRATA COM STK USD0.50
88,082
30.65
2,699,713
JARDINE MATHESON HLDGS ORD USD0.25(SINGAPORE
169,600
28.88
2,685,407
SOCIETE GENERALE EUR1.25
49,891
66.10
2,661,903
NORTHERN TR CORP COM
59,624
80.39
2,627,908
STANDARD LIFE INVESTMENTS UK
2,403
1,071.64
2,575,151
APPLE INC
27,588
169.56
2,564,665
PRUDENTIAL PLC GBP0.05
460,764
5.48
2,522,683
CANADIAN NATURAL RESOURCES LTD
53,973
90.23
2,519,244
PRUDENTIAL FINL INC COM
61,989
73.75
2,506,477
BHP BILLITON PLC USD0.50
143,164
17.17
2,458,126
CVS CAREMARK CORP
120,700
36.61
2,422,669
AMAZON.COM INC COM
54,206
80.81
2,401,594
AKZO NOBEL NV EUR2
71,090
41.76
2,396,280
CADBURY PLC ORD GBP0.10
379,221
6.31
2,392,885
WAL MART STORES INC COM
73,518
59.10
2,382,145
EXXON MOBIL CORP
53,823
80.16
2,365,444
ENTERGY CORP NEW COM
41,600
103.33
2,356,714
RIO TINTO ORD GBP0.10
44,589
52.28
2,331,113
POHJOLA BANK PLC SER'A'
263,408
10.96
2,330,280
Wow that's an impressively non-existent portfolio of investments...Security Description
Nominal
Price
Market Value
HSBC HLDGS ORD USD0.50 (UK)
2,463,627
8.65
21,316,533
VODAFONE GROUP ORD USD0.11428571
14,740,142
1.41
20,783,600
BP PLC ORD USD.25
3,748,345
5.29
19,810,003
GLAXOSMITHKLINE ORD GBP0.25
1,355,646
12.96
17,569,172
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL 'B' SHS
802,750
18.91
15,180,003
ASTRAZENECA ORD USD0.25
457,697
26.92
12,321,203
CENTRICA ORD GBP0.061728395
3,091,261
3.27
10,108,423
BAYER AG ORD NPV
229,004
54.03
9,987,267
STANDARD CHARTERED ORD USD0.50
528,584
14.90
7,875,902
RSA INSURANCE GROUP PLC ORD 27.5P
4,716,511
1.51
7,107,782
CABLE & WIRELESS ORD 25P
3,937,311
1.77
6,984,790
BG GROUP PLC ORD GBP0.10
572,518
12.18
6,973,269
LOGICA ORD GBP0.10
5,156,755
1.34
6,910,052
NESTLE SA CHF0.1 (REGD)
267,498
48.58
6,486,708
MORLEY CENTRAL EUROPEAN
7,407,407
1.07
6,397,623
UNILEVER PLC ORD GBP0.031111
428,573
14.76
6,325,737
DAILY MAIL & GENERAL TRUST 'A' ORD NON-VTG GBP0.
1,702,492
3.71
6,320,502
ANGLO AMERICAN USD0.54(POST CONSOLIDATION)
209,772
29.31
6,148,417
HBOS ORD GBP0.25
1,940,995
3.16
6,123,839
STATOILHYDRO ASA NOK2.50
354,533
167.50
6,019,461
HOME RETAIL GROUP ORD GBP0
2,331,000
2.54
5,909,085
RENTOKIL INITIAL ORD GBP0.01
7,709,379
0.73
5,589,300
LLOYDS TSB GROUP ORD GBP0.25
1,816,631
3.04
5,513,475
KONINKLIJKE KPN NV EUR0.24
583,083
11.60
5,459,552
VIVENDI SA EUR5.5
255,000
26.39
5,431,855
BRITISH SKY BRDCSTG ORD 50P
1,152,685
4.66
5,368,630
PROVIDENT FINANCIAL ORD GBP0.20727272
587,620
9.09
5,341,466
LEGAL & GENERAL GROUP ORD 2.5P
5,184,899
1.00
5,205,639
ALLIANZ SE (SOCIETAS EUROPEAE)
56,189
114.28
5,183,107
TOMKINS ORD USD0.09
3,433,433
1.49
5,098,648
BT GROUP ORD GBP0.05
2,818,557
1.72
4,856,374
NEXT GROUP ORD GBP0.10
456,440
10.60
4,838,264
NATIONAL BK OF GREECE EUR5.0 REGD
157,887
37.66
4,799,493
ALSTOM EUR7 (POST CONSOLIDATION
85,134
69.64
4,785,534
NOVARTIS AG CHF0.50 (REGD)
154,283
61.55
4,740,154
PEARSON ORD GBP0.25
692,915
6.79
4,701,428
GDF SUEZ EUR1
145,236
39.39
4,617,734
DSG INTL ORD GBP0.025
9,354,557
0.49
4,607,119
CAP GEMINI EUR8
140,921
40.45
4,601,113
DS SMITH PLC GBP0.10
3,593,680
1.28
4,599,910
MERCK KGAA NPV
71,199
78.00
4,482,674
E.ON AG NPV
136,067
39.89
4,381,123
OLD MUTUAL ORD GBP0.10
4,435,770
0.98
4,324,876
BAE SYSTEMS ORD GBP0.025
893,656
4.80
4,287,315
ZURICH FINANCIAL SERVICES CHF0.1
28,998
288.25
4,172,378
GROUPE DANONE EUR0.25 (POST SUBDIVISION)
105,382
47.58
4,047,245
TOYOTA MOTOR CORP NPV
159,900
4,920.00
3,974,393
SBM OFFSHORE NV EUR0.25 (POST SUBDIVISION)
295,920
16.55
3,953,129
KONINKLIJKE PHILIPS ELECTRONIC NV EUR0.20
219,223
22.24
3,935,406
FTSE 100 INDEX FUTURE (LIF) EXP SEP 08
67
5,648.50
3,784,495
MITSUBISHI CORP NPV
247,500
3,010.00
3,763,561
FIAT SPA EUR5
435,319
10.57
3,714,080
EASYJET ORD GBP0.25
1,129,000
3.29
3,708,765
TELENOR AS ORD NOK6
427,100
85.60
3,705,864
DEVON ENERGY CORP NEW COM
66,069
102.20
3,701,994
EAST JAPAN RAILWAY CO Y50000
820
868,000.00
3,595,761
NORDICACTIVGEN PART PROPERTYFD
44
100,410.43
3,566,154
SHOPPERS DRUG MART CORP
124,100
55.31
3,550,734
ARCELOR NPV (POST-REORGANISATION)
81,798
53.75
3,548,868
PERNOD-RICARD EUR1.55
68,583
63.98
3,541,843
ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND GRP ORD 25P
1,492,764
2.35
3,500,532
PHILIP MORRIS INTL INC COM
117,166
53.74
3,452,124
FPL GROUP INC COM
101,905
60.07
3,356,141
ABB LTD CHF2.02 (REGD)
239,220
27.14
3,240,811
ABBOTT LABS COM
102,441
57.47
3,227,766
AIR LIQUIDE(L') EUR5.5 (POST-SUBDIVISION)
48,179
82.98
3,227,007
VEOLIA ENVIRONMENT EUR5.0
109,060
36.65
3,226,325
SPRINT NEXTEL CORP COM SER 1
673,575
8.73
3,223,942
IMPERIAL TOBACCO GROUP ORD 10P
175,092
18.11
3,170,916
DISNEY WALT CO COM
176,658
32.37
3,135,184
ILIAD NPV
54,559
70.30
3,095,925
SIEMENS AG NPV REGD
57,174
67.01
3,092,480
QUALCOMM INC
103,647
52.69
2,994,139
BRITISH AMERICAN TOBACCO ORD GBP0.25
160,110
18.60
2,978,046
NINTENDO CO
11,400
51,700.00
2,977,506
ROCHE HLDG AG GENUSSCHEINE NPV
31,031
186.00
2,881,078
MOSAIC CO COM
49,195
106.75
2,879,227
UNILEVER NV CVA EUR0.16
185,425
18.84
2,819,797
MILLICOM INTL CELLULAR SA SHS NEW
63,297
79.42
2,756,132
TRANSOCEAN INC NEW SHS
39,100
127.29
2,728,715
INMARSAT ORD EUR0.000667
528,141
5.12
2,701,441
XSTRATA COM STK USD0.50
88,082
30.65
2,699,713
JARDINE MATHESON HLDGS ORD USD0.25(SINGAPORE
169,600
28.88
2,685,407
SOCIETE GENERALE EUR1.25
49,891
66.10
2,661,903
NORTHERN TR CORP COM
59,624
80.39
2,627,908
STANDARD LIFE INVESTMENTS UK
2,403
1,071.64
2,575,151
APPLE INC
27,588
169.56
2,564,665
PRUDENTIAL PLC GBP0.05
460,764
5.48
2,522,683
CANADIAN NATURAL RESOURCES LTD
53,973
90.23
2,519,244
PRUDENTIAL FINL INC COM
61,989
73.75
2,506,477
BHP BILLITON PLC USD0.50
143,164
17.17
2,458,126
CVS CAREMARK CORP
120,700
36.61
2,422,669
AMAZON.COM INC COM
54,206
80.81
2,401,594
AKZO NOBEL NV EUR2
71,090
41.76
2,396,280
CADBURY PLC ORD GBP0.10
379,221
6.31
2,392,885
WAL MART STORES INC COM
73,518
59.10
2,382,145
EXXON MOBIL CORP
53,823
80.16
2,365,444
ENTERGY CORP NEW COM
41,600
103.33
2,356,714
RIO TINTO ORD GBP0.10
44,589
52.28
2,331,113
POHJOLA BANK PLC SER'A'
263,408
10.96
2,330,280
b
ks being spouted on PH shock horrorPupp said:
Nick_F said:
The rest comes from general taxation - I'd have no difficulty with final-salary pensions in the public sector if the pension funds/bonds/whatever actually existed with which to pay them. But they don't.
Cambridgeshire County Council Pension Fund said:
Top 100 equity holdings at 31 August 2008
Security Description
Nominal
Price
Market Value
HSBC HLDGS ORD USD0.50 (UK)
2,463,627
8.65
21,316,533
VODAFONE GROUP ORD USD0.11428571
14,740,142
1.41
20,783,600
BP PLC ORD USD.25
3,748,345
5.29
19,810,003
GLAXOSMITHKLINE ORD GBP0.25
1,355,646
12.96
17,569,172
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL 'B' SHS
802,750
18.91
15,180,003
ASTRAZENECA ORD USD0.25
457,697
26.92
12,321,203
CENTRICA ORD GBP0.061728395
3,091,261
3.27
10,108,423
BAYER AG ORD NPV
229,004
54.03
9,987,267
STANDARD CHARTERED ORD USD0.50
528,584
14.90
7,875,902
RSA INSURANCE GROUP PLC ORD 27.5P
4,716,511
1.51
7,107,782
CABLE & WIRELESS ORD 25P
3,937,311
1.77
6,984,790
BG GROUP PLC ORD GBP0.10
572,518
12.18
6,973,269
LOGICA ORD GBP0.10
5,156,755
1.34
6,910,052
NESTLE SA CHF0.1 (REGD)
267,498
48.58
6,486,708
MORLEY CENTRAL EUROPEAN
7,407,407
1.07
6,397,623
UNILEVER PLC ORD GBP0.031111
428,573
14.76
6,325,737
DAILY MAIL & GENERAL TRUST 'A' ORD NON-VTG GBP0.
1,702,492
3.71
6,320,502
ANGLO AMERICAN USD0.54(POST CONSOLIDATION)
209,772
29.31
6,148,417
HBOS ORD GBP0.25
1,940,995
3.16
6,123,839
STATOILHYDRO ASA NOK2.50
354,533
167.50
6,019,461
HOME RETAIL GROUP ORD GBP0
2,331,000
2.54
5,909,085
RENTOKIL INITIAL ORD GBP0.01
7,709,379
0.73
5,589,300
LLOYDS TSB GROUP ORD GBP0.25
1,816,631
3.04
5,513,475
KONINKLIJKE KPN NV EUR0.24
583,083
11.60
5,459,552
VIVENDI SA EUR5.5
255,000
26.39
5,431,855
BRITISH SKY BRDCSTG ORD 50P
1,152,685
4.66
5,368,630
PROVIDENT FINANCIAL ORD GBP0.20727272
587,620
9.09
5,341,466
LEGAL & GENERAL GROUP ORD 2.5P
5,184,899
1.00
5,205,639
ALLIANZ SE (SOCIETAS EUROPEAE)
56,189
114.28
5,183,107
TOMKINS ORD USD0.09
3,433,433
1.49
5,098,648
BT GROUP ORD GBP0.05
2,818,557
1.72
4,856,374
NEXT GROUP ORD GBP0.10
456,440
10.60
4,838,264
NATIONAL BK OF GREECE EUR5.0 REGD
157,887
37.66
4,799,493
ALSTOM EUR7 (POST CONSOLIDATION
85,134
69.64
4,785,534
NOVARTIS AG CHF0.50 (REGD)
154,283
61.55
4,740,154
PEARSON ORD GBP0.25
692,915
6.79
4,701,428
GDF SUEZ EUR1
145,236
39.39
4,617,734
DSG INTL ORD GBP0.025
9,354,557
0.49
4,607,119
CAP GEMINI EUR8
140,921
40.45
4,601,113
DS SMITH PLC GBP0.10
3,593,680
1.28
4,599,910
MERCK KGAA NPV
71,199
78.00
4,482,674
E.ON AG NPV
136,067
39.89
4,381,123
OLD MUTUAL ORD GBP0.10
4,435,770
0.98
4,324,876
BAE SYSTEMS ORD GBP0.025
893,656
4.80
4,287,315
ZURICH FINANCIAL SERVICES CHF0.1
28,998
288.25
4,172,378
GROUPE DANONE EUR0.25 (POST SUBDIVISION)
105,382
47.58
4,047,245
TOYOTA MOTOR CORP NPV
159,900
4,920.00
3,974,393
SBM OFFSHORE NV EUR0.25 (POST SUBDIVISION)
295,920
16.55
3,953,129
KONINKLIJKE PHILIPS ELECTRONIC NV EUR0.20
219,223
22.24
3,935,406
FTSE 100 INDEX FUTURE (LIF) EXP SEP 08
67
5,648.50
3,784,495
MITSUBISHI CORP NPV
247,500
3,010.00
3,763,561
FIAT SPA EUR5
435,319
10.57
3,714,080
EASYJET ORD GBP0.25
1,129,000
3.29
3,708,765
TELENOR AS ORD NOK6
427,100
85.60
3,705,864
DEVON ENERGY CORP NEW COM
66,069
102.20
3,701,994
EAST JAPAN RAILWAY CO Y50000
820
868,000.00
3,595,761
NORDICACTIVGEN PART PROPERTYFD
44
100,410.43
3,566,154
SHOPPERS DRUG MART CORP
124,100
55.31
3,550,734
ARCELOR NPV (POST-REORGANISATION)
81,798
53.75
3,548,868
PERNOD-RICARD EUR1.55
68,583
63.98
3,541,843
ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND GRP ORD 25P
1,492,764
2.35
3,500,532
PHILIP MORRIS INTL INC COM
117,166
53.74
3,452,124
FPL GROUP INC COM
101,905
60.07
3,356,141
ABB LTD CHF2.02 (REGD)
239,220
27.14
3,240,811
ABBOTT LABS COM
102,441
57.47
3,227,766
AIR LIQUIDE(L') EUR5.5 (POST-SUBDIVISION)
48,179
82.98
3,227,007
VEOLIA ENVIRONMENT EUR5.0
109,060
36.65
3,226,325
SPRINT NEXTEL CORP COM SER 1
673,575
8.73
3,223,942
IMPERIAL TOBACCO GROUP ORD 10P
175,092
18.11
3,170,916
DISNEY WALT CO COM
176,658
32.37
3,135,184
ILIAD NPV
54,559
70.30
3,095,925
SIEMENS AG NPV REGD
57,174
67.01
3,092,480
QUALCOMM INC
103,647
52.69
2,994,139
BRITISH AMERICAN TOBACCO ORD GBP0.25
160,110
18.60
2,978,046
NINTENDO CO
11,400
51,700.00
2,977,506
ROCHE HLDG AG GENUSSCHEINE NPV
31,031
186.00
2,881,078
MOSAIC CO COM
49,195
106.75
2,879,227
UNILEVER NV CVA EUR0.16
185,425
18.84
2,819,797
MILLICOM INTL CELLULAR SA SHS NEW
63,297
79.42
2,756,132
TRANSOCEAN INC NEW SHS
39,100
127.29
2,728,715
INMARSAT ORD EUR0.000667
528,141
5.12
2,701,441
XSTRATA COM STK USD0.50
88,082
30.65
2,699,713
JARDINE MATHESON HLDGS ORD USD0.25(SINGAPORE
169,600
28.88
2,685,407
SOCIETE GENERALE EUR1.25
49,891
66.10
2,661,903
NORTHERN TR CORP COM
59,624
80.39
2,627,908
STANDARD LIFE INVESTMENTS UK
2,403
1,071.64
2,575,151
APPLE INC
27,588
169.56
2,564,665
PRUDENTIAL PLC GBP0.05
460,764
5.48
2,522,683
CANADIAN NATURAL RESOURCES LTD
53,973
90.23
2,519,244
PRUDENTIAL FINL INC COM
61,989
73.75
2,506,477
BHP BILLITON PLC USD0.50
143,164
17.17
2,458,126
CVS CAREMARK CORP
120,700
36.61
2,422,669
AMAZON.COM INC COM
54,206
80.81
2,401,594
AKZO NOBEL NV EUR2
71,090
41.76
2,396,280
CADBURY PLC ORD GBP0.10
379,221
6.31
2,392,885
WAL MART STORES INC COM
73,518
59.10
2,382,145
EXXON MOBIL CORP
53,823
80.16
2,365,444
ENTERGY CORP NEW COM
41,600
103.33
2,356,714
RIO TINTO ORD GBP0.10
44,589
52.28
2,331,113
POHJOLA BANK PLC SER'A'
263,408
10.96
2,330,280
Wow that's an impressively non-existent portfolio of investments...Security Description
Nominal
Price
Market Value
HSBC HLDGS ORD USD0.50 (UK)
2,463,627
8.65
21,316,533
VODAFONE GROUP ORD USD0.11428571
14,740,142
1.41
20,783,600
BP PLC ORD USD.25
3,748,345
5.29
19,810,003
GLAXOSMITHKLINE ORD GBP0.25
1,355,646
12.96
17,569,172
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL 'B' SHS
802,750
18.91
15,180,003
ASTRAZENECA ORD USD0.25
457,697
26.92
12,321,203
CENTRICA ORD GBP0.061728395
3,091,261
3.27
10,108,423
BAYER AG ORD NPV
229,004
54.03
9,987,267
STANDARD CHARTERED ORD USD0.50
528,584
14.90
7,875,902
RSA INSURANCE GROUP PLC ORD 27.5P
4,716,511
1.51
7,107,782
CABLE & WIRELESS ORD 25P
3,937,311
1.77
6,984,790
BG GROUP PLC ORD GBP0.10
572,518
12.18
6,973,269
LOGICA ORD GBP0.10
5,156,755
1.34
6,910,052
NESTLE SA CHF0.1 (REGD)
267,498
48.58
6,486,708
MORLEY CENTRAL EUROPEAN
7,407,407
1.07
6,397,623
UNILEVER PLC ORD GBP0.031111
428,573
14.76
6,325,737
DAILY MAIL & GENERAL TRUST 'A' ORD NON-VTG GBP0.
1,702,492
3.71
6,320,502
ANGLO AMERICAN USD0.54(POST CONSOLIDATION)
209,772
29.31
6,148,417
HBOS ORD GBP0.25
1,940,995
3.16
6,123,839
STATOILHYDRO ASA NOK2.50
354,533
167.50
6,019,461
HOME RETAIL GROUP ORD GBP0
2,331,000
2.54
5,909,085
RENTOKIL INITIAL ORD GBP0.01
7,709,379
0.73
5,589,300
LLOYDS TSB GROUP ORD GBP0.25
1,816,631
3.04
5,513,475
KONINKLIJKE KPN NV EUR0.24
583,083
11.60
5,459,552
VIVENDI SA EUR5.5
255,000
26.39
5,431,855
BRITISH SKY BRDCSTG ORD 50P
1,152,685
4.66
5,368,630
PROVIDENT FINANCIAL ORD GBP0.20727272
587,620
9.09
5,341,466
LEGAL & GENERAL GROUP ORD 2.5P
5,184,899
1.00
5,205,639
ALLIANZ SE (SOCIETAS EUROPEAE)
56,189
114.28
5,183,107
TOMKINS ORD USD0.09
3,433,433
1.49
5,098,648
BT GROUP ORD GBP0.05
2,818,557
1.72
4,856,374
NEXT GROUP ORD GBP0.10
456,440
10.60
4,838,264
NATIONAL BK OF GREECE EUR5.0 REGD
157,887
37.66
4,799,493
ALSTOM EUR7 (POST CONSOLIDATION
85,134
69.64
4,785,534
NOVARTIS AG CHF0.50 (REGD)
154,283
61.55
4,740,154
PEARSON ORD GBP0.25
692,915
6.79
4,701,428
GDF SUEZ EUR1
145,236
39.39
4,617,734
DSG INTL ORD GBP0.025
9,354,557
0.49
4,607,119
CAP GEMINI EUR8
140,921
40.45
4,601,113
DS SMITH PLC GBP0.10
3,593,680
1.28
4,599,910
MERCK KGAA NPV
71,199
78.00
4,482,674
E.ON AG NPV
136,067
39.89
4,381,123
OLD MUTUAL ORD GBP0.10
4,435,770
0.98
4,324,876
BAE SYSTEMS ORD GBP0.025
893,656
4.80
4,287,315
ZURICH FINANCIAL SERVICES CHF0.1
28,998
288.25
4,172,378
GROUPE DANONE EUR0.25 (POST SUBDIVISION)
105,382
47.58
4,047,245
TOYOTA MOTOR CORP NPV
159,900
4,920.00
3,974,393
SBM OFFSHORE NV EUR0.25 (POST SUBDIVISION)
295,920
16.55
3,953,129
KONINKLIJKE PHILIPS ELECTRONIC NV EUR0.20
219,223
22.24
3,935,406
FTSE 100 INDEX FUTURE (LIF) EXP SEP 08
67
5,648.50
3,784,495
MITSUBISHI CORP NPV
247,500
3,010.00
3,763,561
FIAT SPA EUR5
435,319
10.57
3,714,080
EASYJET ORD GBP0.25
1,129,000
3.29
3,708,765
TELENOR AS ORD NOK6
427,100
85.60
3,705,864
DEVON ENERGY CORP NEW COM
66,069
102.20
3,701,994
EAST JAPAN RAILWAY CO Y50000
820
868,000.00
3,595,761
NORDICACTIVGEN PART PROPERTYFD
44
100,410.43
3,566,154
SHOPPERS DRUG MART CORP
124,100
55.31
3,550,734
ARCELOR NPV (POST-REORGANISATION)
81,798
53.75
3,548,868
PERNOD-RICARD EUR1.55
68,583
63.98
3,541,843
ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND GRP ORD 25P
1,492,764
2.35
3,500,532
PHILIP MORRIS INTL INC COM
117,166
53.74
3,452,124
FPL GROUP INC COM
101,905
60.07
3,356,141
ABB LTD CHF2.02 (REGD)
239,220
27.14
3,240,811
ABBOTT LABS COM
102,441
57.47
3,227,766
AIR LIQUIDE(L') EUR5.5 (POST-SUBDIVISION)
48,179
82.98
3,227,007
VEOLIA ENVIRONMENT EUR5.0
109,060
36.65
3,226,325
SPRINT NEXTEL CORP COM SER 1
673,575
8.73
3,223,942
IMPERIAL TOBACCO GROUP ORD 10P
175,092
18.11
3,170,916
DISNEY WALT CO COM
176,658
32.37
3,135,184
ILIAD NPV
54,559
70.30
3,095,925
SIEMENS AG NPV REGD
57,174
67.01
3,092,480
QUALCOMM INC
103,647
52.69
2,994,139
BRITISH AMERICAN TOBACCO ORD GBP0.25
160,110
18.60
2,978,046
NINTENDO CO
11,400
51,700.00
2,977,506
ROCHE HLDG AG GENUSSCHEINE NPV
31,031
186.00
2,881,078
MOSAIC CO COM
49,195
106.75
2,879,227
UNILEVER NV CVA EUR0.16
185,425
18.84
2,819,797
MILLICOM INTL CELLULAR SA SHS NEW
63,297
79.42
2,756,132
TRANSOCEAN INC NEW SHS
39,100
127.29
2,728,715
INMARSAT ORD EUR0.000667
528,141
5.12
2,701,441
XSTRATA COM STK USD0.50
88,082
30.65
2,699,713
JARDINE MATHESON HLDGS ORD USD0.25(SINGAPORE
169,600
28.88
2,685,407
SOCIETE GENERALE EUR1.25
49,891
66.10
2,661,903
NORTHERN TR CORP COM
59,624
80.39
2,627,908
STANDARD LIFE INVESTMENTS UK
2,403
1,071.64
2,575,151
APPLE INC
27,588
169.56
2,564,665
PRUDENTIAL PLC GBP0.05
460,764
5.48
2,522,683
CANADIAN NATURAL RESOURCES LTD
53,973
90.23
2,519,244
PRUDENTIAL FINL INC COM
61,989
73.75
2,506,477
BHP BILLITON PLC USD0.50
143,164
17.17
2,458,126
CVS CAREMARK CORP
120,700
36.61
2,422,669
AMAZON.COM INC COM
54,206
80.81
2,401,594
AKZO NOBEL NV EUR2
71,090
41.76
2,396,280
CADBURY PLC ORD GBP0.10
379,221
6.31
2,392,885
WAL MART STORES INC COM
73,518
59.10
2,382,145
EXXON MOBIL CORP
53,823
80.16
2,365,444
ENTERGY CORP NEW COM
41,600
103.33
2,356,714
RIO TINTO ORD GBP0.10
44,589
52.28
2,331,113
POHJOLA BANK PLC SER'A'
263,408
10.96
2,330,280
b
ks being spouted on PH shock horrorCentral Government scheme = entirely unfunded
Cost of unfunded central Government pensions? £30bn a year today, God alone knows how much in a few years from now.
Clear?
Nick_F said:
Local Authority scheme = largely funded
Central Government scheme = entirely unfunded
Cost of unfunded central Government pensions? £30bn a year today, God alone knows how much in a few years from now.
Clear?
Erm, well given this seems to be a small but vital omission from your original assertion supporting the premise that [all] public sector pensions are not funded or backed by real assets, no it wasn't clear. But I think we have clarified that [apparent] misrepresentation now Central Government scheme = entirely unfunded
Cost of unfunded central Government pensions? £30bn a year today, God alone knows how much in a few years from now.
Clear?
Guybrush said:
Zod said:
There are two kinds of pension in this country:
private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
...and public sector pensions are so good, i.e. so expensive to fund (by the private sector) that such a pension is totally impossible to purchase privately.private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
Zod said:
Guybrush said:
Zod said:
There are two kinds of pension in this country:
private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
...and public sector pensions are so good, i.e. so expensive to fund (by the private sector) that such a pension is totally impossible to purchase privately.private sector pensions - invested in the stock market and the bond markets, using money paid in by private sector companies and employees; and
public sector pensions - not funded in any way, but paid for out of current tax receipts.
The way to cut the deficit is to reduce the public sector pensions being paid now and the entitlements of public sector employees still in "work".
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