Death by pothole
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/85946...
Apologies if this is a repost. I read today that fixing the current potholes will cost about £10 Billion & take around fifteen years. Whilst that sounds like a lot of money, anyone have any idea what that works out at as a percentage of all the road tax / fuel duty / VAT etc that this government rakes in annually from motorists?
"A spokesman for the council said: "Firstly, we'd like to say we are sorry to hear about this tragic accident and our thoughts are with family and friends at this difficult time."
Obviously the current trend to call them collisions & not accidents does not apply when it's likely to be the authorities at fault.
Apologies if this is a repost. I read today that fixing the current potholes will cost about £10 Billion & take around fifteen years. Whilst that sounds like a lot of money, anyone have any idea what that works out at as a percentage of all the road tax / fuel duty / VAT etc that this government rakes in annually from motorists?
"A spokesman for the council said: "Firstly, we'd like to say we are sorry to hear about this tragic accident and our thoughts are with family and friends at this difficult time."
Obviously the current trend to call them collisions & not accidents does not apply when it's likely to be the authorities at fault.
While it is tragic, you could replace pothole with 'child', 'dog', or any number of things. The bottom line is the guy put himself in front of a truck to avoid a hole. A horrible accident, but to me it sounds like bad judgement by the cyclist and possibly a truck trying to pass too close (I'm guessing that the truck and cyclist were both heading in the same direction).
Parrot of Doom said:
I take it you've never cycled on a bike with 20mm tyres at 20-25mph?
He might just as easily hit the pothole and been thrown into the path of the lorry. That this hole was there is a disgrace. If I had my way, corporate manslaughter charges would be being considered.
Not on a road that had lorries and potholes, He might just as easily hit the pothole and been thrown into the path of the lorry. That this hole was there is a disgrace. If I had my way, corporate manslaughter charges would be being considered.
sometimes it pays to be a bit more risk aware and less up your cycling arse, POD.
Eh? So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for, because local councils won't spend the money on their upkeep?
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Parrot of Doom said:
Eh? So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for, because local councils won't spend the money on their upkeep?
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Been there done that last year. Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
But I liked this bit the best
"So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for"
yep thats right, you put yourself in danger then don't expect me to look at your sorry smashed carcass and say oh it's not his fault.
You play with fire, you put yourself in danger, don't go blaming anyone else when it all goes horribly wrong.
Mojocvh said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Eh? So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for, because local councils won't spend the money on their upkeep?
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Been there done that last year. Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
But I liked this bit the best
"So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for"
yep thats right, you put yourself in danger then don't expect me to look at your sorry smashed carcass and say oh it's not his fault.
You play with fire, you put yourself in danger, don't go blaming anyone else when it all goes horribly wrong.
I do wonder sometimes about the mentality of some people on this forum. Yes it is a car forum, but I thought it was an intelligent car forum that dealt with every aspect of cars, including safe driving (and how to handle vulnerable road users).
Yes we do have idiots on bikes too (no lights, wobbling on the roads, hopping off kerbs etc) but if you speak to proper cycling enthusiasts you will realise that we aren't like this. The idiots on bikes are usually people who don't really care, a bit like bad drivers really.
funkyrobot said:
Mojocvh said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Eh? So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for, because local councils won't spend the money on their upkeep?
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Been there done that last year. Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
But I liked this bit the best
"So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for"
yep thats right, you put yourself in danger then don't expect me to look at your sorry smashed carcass and say oh it's not his fault.
You play with fire, you put yourself in danger, don't go blaming anyone else when it all goes horribly wrong.
I do wonder sometimes about the mentality of some people on this forum. Yes it is a car forum, but I thought it was an intelligent car forum that dealt with every aspect of cars, including safe driving (and how to handle vulnerable road users).
Yes we do have idiots on bikes too (no lights, wobbling on the roads, hopping off kerbs etc) but if you speak to proper cycling enthusiasts you will realise that we aren't like this. The idiots on bikes are usually people who don't really care, a bit like bad drivers really.
Nowt wrong with cycling on public roads, although I seldom have the courage.
Cycling's often more convenient and, for short trips, saves starting up your engine for a journey which will take a disproportionate amount of fuel and wear and tear on the engine. Plus, setting aside the suicidal element of the cycle commuter and couriers, if more drivers cycled, we might actually see better roadcraft. Not everyone can afford a car, or to drive everywhere.
My local bike shop has seen more major structural repairs to road bikes this year than ever. Buckled and busted wheels have always been a hazard, but now he's seens failures on front forks and even frames. When it rains, cyclists have no way of judging what lies beneath the surface of puddles and on routes with which are not familiar, potholes are a major danger.
Mojocvh said:
Parrot of Doom said:
I take it you've never cycled on a bike with 20mm tyres at 20-25mph?
He might just as easily hit the pothole and been thrown into the path of the lorry. That this hole was there is a disgrace. If I had my way, corporate manslaughter charges would be being considered.
Not on a road that had lorries and potholes, He might just as easily hit the pothole and been thrown into the path of the lorry. That this hole was there is a disgrace. If I had my way, corporate manslaughter charges would be being considered.
sometimes it pays to be a bit more risk aware and less up your cycling arse, POD.
funkyrobot said:
Why do you say you are putting yourself in danger if you cycle on the roads? If you are cycling sensibly the main danger comes from the minority of idiots behind the wheel of a vehicle. Fool on a bicycle - fool gets hurt. Fool behind the wheel - cyclist gets hurt.
I do wonder sometimes about the mentality of some people on this forum. Yes it is a car forum, but I thought it was an intelligent car forum that dealt with every aspect of cars, including safe driving (and how to handle vulnerable road users).
Yes we do have idiots on bikes too (no lights, wobbling on the roads, hopping off kerbs etc) but if you speak to proper cycling enthusiasts you will realise that we aren't like this. The idiots on bikes are usually people who don't really care, a bit like bad drivers really.
Nice one.I do wonder sometimes about the mentality of some people on this forum. Yes it is a car forum, but I thought it was an intelligent car forum that dealt with every aspect of cars, including safe driving (and how to handle vulnerable road users).
Yes we do have idiots on bikes too (no lights, wobbling on the roads, hopping off kerbs etc) but if you speak to proper cycling enthusiasts you will realise that we aren't like this. The idiots on bikes are usually people who don't really care, a bit like bad drivers really.
Parrot of Doom said:
That this hole was there is a disgrace. If I had my way, corporate manslaughter charges would be being considered.
+1. Whatever mode of transport is being used, these potholes are seriously dangerous and of course destructive. Some of the roads around here (West Sussex) wouldn't look out of place in Beirut or Baghdad. But at least there'd be an excuse. Unless these b
d councils are made to pay - for damage and indeed as POD suggests in the criminal courts for causing accidents - then they'll never be fixed. We bought a couple of new industrial buildings in 2007 and, in amongst all the other usual local authority bks we had to deal with, was a small 'planning clause' which dictates that the new owner/occupant of any building (i.e. us) has to complete a staff travel survey and then implement a travel plan.
Basically this little gem of red tape is the most anti-car biased excercise I have yet to come accross from government. This waste of effort desptite the fact that we are on an industrial estate with no bus service, in a town which has no safe, viable cycle links to any other town.
The capability of most of our roads to safely convey cars, trucks, busses, alongside cycles is laughable. Many of our major 'A' and 'B' routes are barely wide enough to allow trucks to pass without clashing mirrors - I know, because we have to replace our HGV's mirror glasses all too often - let alone for the drivers of such vehicles to accomodate cyclists safely. Then there's all the ridiculous 'pedestrian refuges' that have sprung up in the centre of many such roads, which serve to limit the width of the road to a level where not even an average car can pass a cycle safely.
To say there is no joined-up transport strategy in the UK is an understatement. Every time I drive in Germany my blood begins to simmer at the realisation of how easliy things could be made right, if only politicians pulled their heads out of their arses for long enough.
ks we had to deal with, was a small 'planning clause' which dictates that the new owner/occupant of any building (i.e. us) has to complete a staff travel survey and then implement a travel plan.Basically this little gem of red tape is the most anti-car biased excercise I have yet to come accross from government. This waste of effort desptite the fact that we are on an industrial estate with no bus service, in a town which has no safe, viable cycle links to any other town.
The capability of most of our roads to safely convey cars, trucks, busses, alongside cycles is laughable. Many of our major 'A' and 'B' routes are barely wide enough to allow trucks to pass without clashing mirrors - I know, because we have to replace our HGV's mirror glasses all too often - let alone for the drivers of such vehicles to accomodate cyclists safely. Then there's all the ridiculous 'pedestrian refuges' that have sprung up in the centre of many such roads, which serve to limit the width of the road to a level where not even an average car can pass a cycle safely.
To say there is no joined-up transport strategy in the UK is an understatement. Every time I drive in Germany my blood begins to simmer at the realisation of how easliy things could be made right, if only politicians pulled their heads out of their arses for long enough.
Saddle bum said:
Mojocvh said:
Parrot of Doom said:
I take it you've never cycled on a bike with 20mm tyres at 20-25mph?
He might just as easily hit the pothole and been thrown into the path of the lorry. That this hole was there is a disgrace. If I had my way, corporate manslaughter charges would be being considered.
Not on a road that had lorries and potholes, He might just as easily hit the pothole and been thrown into the path of the lorry. That this hole was there is a disgrace. If I had my way, corporate manslaughter charges would be being considered.
sometimes it pays to be a bit more risk aware and less up your cycling arse, POD.
So it's no use blaming someone else** when YOU fail to take sensible precautions to safeguard yourself pertaining to the terrible state of the roads at this moment.
- remember that one?
The 27 x 1-1/4 in wheel was the bicycle standard since time began until the late 1970s when the 700c was introduced. The average road rider today uses 700c x 23mm tyres, which are more that adequate for use on well maintained roads.
The pen-pushers in county hall believe that fat knobbly tyres are more common, (possibly true), so they comfort themselves by thinking cyclists can manage the potholes. But more miles are ridden on UK roads on road bikes with thin road wheels than by MTBs, especially out of town.
The roads have never been in such bad condition, they were unacceptable before the winter, now they are positively lethal in places. Motorists are complaining about damage. The effect on unwary two wheeled road users is far worse.
The pen-pushers in county hall believe that fat knobbly tyres are more common, (possibly true), so they comfort themselves by thinking cyclists can manage the potholes. But more miles are ridden on UK roads on road bikes with thin road wheels than by MTBs, especially out of town.
The roads have never been in such bad condition, they were unacceptable before the winter, now they are positively lethal in places. Motorists are complaining about damage. The effect on unwary two wheeled road users is far worse.
Mojocvh said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Eh? So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for, because local councils won't spend the money on their upkeep?
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Been there done that last year. Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
But I liked this bit the best
"So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for"
yep thats right, you put yourself in danger then don't expect me to look at your sorry smashed carcass and say oh it's not his fault.
You play with fire, you put yourself in danger, don't go blaming anyone else when it all goes horribly wrong.
ds who can't be arsed to repair the roads that I and every other taxpayer funds.Parrot of Doom said:
Mojocvh said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Eh? So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for, because local councils won't spend the money on their upkeep?
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Been there done that last year. Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
But I liked this bit the best
"So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for"
yep thats right, you put yourself in danger then don't expect me to look at your sorry smashed carcass and say oh it's not his fault.
You play with fire, you put yourself in danger, don't go blaming anyone else when it all goes horribly wrong.
ds who can't be arsed to repair the roads that I and every other taxpayer funds.OK that's your opinion, you think you are immune to the damaged roads fine.
Mojocvh said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Eh? So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for, because local councils won't spend the money on their upkeep?
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Been there done that last year. Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
But I liked this bit the best
"So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for"
yep thats right, you put yourself in danger then don't expect me to look at your sorry smashed carcass and say oh it's not his fault.
You play with fire, you put yourself in danger, don't go blaming anyone else when it all goes horribly wrong.
Here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
Those poorly patched up parts you see on Streetview are no longer now, they're just a long line of craters and loose tarmac
And it carries on up the road:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
These photos are at least a year old.
Oakey said:
Mojocvh said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Eh? So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for, because local councils won't spend the money on their upkeep?
Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
Been there done that last year. Try telling that to someone here with a nice sports car, who's just had to pay for two new wheels and tyres, and broken springs. See how long you last.
But I liked this bit the best
"So you're saying that vulnerable road users should not use the roads that they pay for"
yep thats right, you put yourself in danger then don't expect me to look at your sorry smashed carcass and say oh it's not his fault.
You play with fire, you put yourself in danger, don't go blaming anyone else when it all goes horribly wrong.
Here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
Those poorly patched up parts you see on Streetview are no longer now, they're just a long line of craters and loose tarmac
And it carries on up the road:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
These photos are at least a year old.
Near home I know of two stretches of tarmac - one in the braking area for an approach to a busy mini roundabout and the other the approach and entry into a very tryicky offf-camber corner - where the lateral ribs/bumps have developed (these defects tend to 'amplify' each time the cheapo chipping treatments are topped up) to the point that cars loose control. Talking to a Police officer, they regularly see problems on these areas....
Here's a good one: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
Follow it all the way down to the main road, particularly here:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
That pothole is almost the size of a car!
Follow it all the way down to the main road, particularly here:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
That pothole is almost the size of a car!
Mojocvh said:
" I wouldn't be putting myself in danger"
OK that's your opinion, you think you are immune to the damaged roads fine.
Mojo, OK that's your opinion, you think you are immune to the damaged roads fine.
Are you playing devils advocate, or do you really believe the argument you are pushing? I'm sincerely hoping it's the former ...
Also, when was the last time you cycled anywhere on roads in the UK?
Just curious.
Oli.
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