So why aren't the Tories running away with it?
Discussion
I mean, everyone has had enough of Labour haven't they?
The country is on its knees and nobody likes Gordon Brown....so why aren't the Tories romping to a landslide victory in the pre-election form tables?
Have people just resigned to the fact that 'they're all the same'?
Are lefties turning to the Lib Dems?
I don't understand.....?
The country is on its knees and nobody likes Gordon Brown....so why aren't the Tories romping to a landslide victory in the pre-election form tables?
Have people just resigned to the fact that 'they're all the same'?
Are lefties turning to the Lib Dems?
I don't understand.....?
Because they are, in the eyes of many voters, the same.
With so many problems why are the Tories not comming out with a very different approach?
The tag line "a trillion in debt, something must be done" could be used to justify all manner of tax and benefit changes. Environmental and social issues could (and should be) used to justify a change in our control over immigration and our approach to law.
...but instead of a grand plan of radical changes we get the usual pussy footing around the elephants in the room with half hearted promises to not cut this, not cut that, not raise that tax, not change something else.
Is this what a Tory government is going to be like? Total unwillingness to face the truth and present a realistic plan to deal with it? Fiddling with the edges of a Labour governments mess in the hope that they won't have to upset anyone by changing anything meaningfull?
A straw poll of voters (friends and colleagues) shows that many "don't know who to vote for" precisely due to these issues.
We urgently need to cut our national debt, cut the benefit budget, simplify the tax system and stop burdening employers with social issues.
But instead we get the reverse.
With so many problems why are the Tories not comming out with a very different approach?
The tag line "a trillion in debt, something must be done" could be used to justify all manner of tax and benefit changes. Environmental and social issues could (and should be) used to justify a change in our control over immigration and our approach to law.
...but instead of a grand plan of radical changes we get the usual pussy footing around the elephants in the room with half hearted promises to not cut this, not cut that, not raise that tax, not change something else.
Is this what a Tory government is going to be like? Total unwillingness to face the truth and present a realistic plan to deal with it? Fiddling with the edges of a Labour governments mess in the hope that they won't have to upset anyone by changing anything meaningfull?
A straw poll of voters (friends and colleagues) shows that many "don't know who to vote for" precisely due to these issues.
We urgently need to cut our national debt, cut the benefit budget, simplify the tax system and stop burdening employers with social issues.
But instead we get the reverse.
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again
Nice. I voted labour so you calling me a dumb f
ker? Think you'll find I’m quite well educated thank you very much and also quite politically aware too.I think you need a long hard look at why people voted labour. Perhaps it was because the Tory party was completely in disarray and has been for quite some time. Hence Labour has been in power for 13 years. Quite simple really. Oh and if you think the Tory party will get in this time I think you will be surprised as I think they are still not trusted.
neenaw said:
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again
Very scary thought but at the same time, most probably true!cymtriks said:
We urgently need to cut our national debt, cut the benefit budget, simplify the tax system and stop burdening employers with social issues.
But instead we get the reverse.
Because whenever you start talking about these things the Labour/Lib Dem spin machines instantly twist things to terrify the average voter.But instead we get the reverse.
Cut national debt: this is now portrayed as "put the recovery in jeopordy, massive cuts to "essential public services" (funny how, according to New Labour its always the teachers and nurses will be the first to be fired in a Tory public sector squeeze)
Cut the benefit budget: this is now portayed as " crush the most vulnerable members of society whilst allowing the fat cats and banks to cream it in with their bonuses"
Simplify the tax system: Is now portrayed as looking after the rich at the expense of the poor, - eg. Tory inheritance tax plans are only to benefit millionaires
Stop burdening employers: is now portrayed as "allow nasty, worker crushing employers to go back to the 1980s with their oppressive and exploitative treatment of workers" Workers must be protected from employers don't you know?
And the public is too thick to understand the difference by and large, Many people still think having a structural deficit of 70 Billion is not a problem, and that it will all go away. These are the same people who think that companies like Cartel Client Review really can get their mortgage and credit cards debts written off cos the nasty bank made a mistake on their paperwork 5 years ago - they further don't think that if everyone did this there would be any problem.....
Nick Clegg was on the radio this morning lambasting the Tories for wanting to cut the deficit using pretty much all the arguments above. James Naughtie (in a rare moment of non anti tory bias for him) suggested that any new government would have to make cuts. Clegg's response was along the lines of.... " Well, the structural deficit is 70 billion, and Labour are proposing 20 billion of savings. We are proposing an additional 15 billion in tax rises and cuts (mansion tax) so this almost takes care of it (thats 35 billion Nick, what about the rest???????)
And I'm willing to bet that most people simply don't get the scale of economic devastation wreaked on this country in the past 13 years. Lastly, the Government can basically get away with saying anything it wants to and too many people just suck it up.... You actually had a Govt minister yesterday in the House claiming that it was to the UKs benefit that we were first into recession and last out of it, and last night someone actually parroted this to me as fact!
Vimto156 said:
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again
Nice. I voted labour so you calling me a dumb fker? , than dumb fker.......... do you also believe in man made global warming? 
Edited by AndrewW-G on Wednesday 7th April 09:26
Vimto156 said:
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again.
Nice. I voted labour so you calling me a dumb fker? Think you'll find I’m quite well educated thank you very much and also quite politically aware too.DieselGriff said:
Vimto156 said:
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again
Nice. I voted labour so you calling me a dumb fker? well who should i have voted for then? The Tory party? I dont think so... Labour, whilst being far from perfect, have done an OK job. Yes it could be better, but it could be a whole lot worse. Unfortunately Labour don’t have the luxury of selling all the oil, gas, electricity, telecomms, public transport, social housing in order to bail themselves out unlike the Tory party did. Remember that do we? I do...
Digga said:
Know this; the single most talked about item - amongst the great & grunting classes of the UK - in the chancellors last budget, was the increase in tax on cider.
Understand this and you understand why democracy (and us in the UK) are doomed.
Oddly I'd say the cider tax was a good example of democracy working in the UK, the idiots in Westminster stated in the budget that they were going to increase it, people complained, tax increase cancelled (no doubt as it would affect labours core vote) Understand this and you understand why democracy (and us in the UK) are doomed.
The problem is that labour won't listen to anybody outside of their traditional voter demographic.
DieselGriff said:
Vimto156 said:
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again
Nice. I voted labour so you calling me a dumb fker? Vimto, you can only learn from your past mistakes. If you vote for them again you'll get a lot of people on here calling you a dumb f
ker. Get used to it chap.
Vimto156 said:
DieselGriff said:
Vimto156 said:
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again
Nice. I voted labour so you calling me a dumb fker? well who should i have voted for then? The Tory party? I dont think so... Labour, whilst being far from perfect, have done an OK job. Yes it could be better, but it could be a whole lot worse. Unfortunately Labour don’t have the luxury of selling all the oil, gas, electricity, telecomms, public transport, social housing in order to bail themselves out unlike the Tory party did. Remember that do we? I do...
AndrewW-G said:
Digga said:
Know this; the single most talked about item - amongst the great & grunting classes of the UK - in the chancellors last budget, was the increase in tax on cider.
Understand this and you understand why democracy (and us in the UK) are doomed.
Oddly I'd say the cider tax was a good example of democracy working in the UK, the idiots in Westminster stated in the budget that they were going to increase it, people complained, tax increase cancelled (no doubt as it would affect labours core vote) Understand this and you understand why democracy (and us in the UK) are doomed.
The problem is that labour won't listen to anybody outside of their traditional voter demographic.
It shows that the vast majority of people focus on 'lowest common denominator issues', rather than the important stuff, like this eleventy billion debt hanging over our heads - surely the issue of our times - for example.
What's even worse is that people fail to see through the incompetance of a government that trots out (yet another) ill-concieved tax-grab, and then fails to have the conviction to back its own ideas and capitulates.
Vimto156 said:
DieselGriff said:
Vimto156 said:
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again
Nice. I voted labour so you calling me a dumb fker? Vimto156 said:
well who should i have voted for then? The Tory party?
I think you missed the point of my post old boy. You can vote for what ever lizard you want to (for now) but don't expect to be able to say that a labour voter is not a dumb fker on here without some derision.That is all.
Vimto156 said:
DieselGriff said:
Vimto156 said:
y2blade said:
I bet you a soapy tenner the dumb f-ckers in this country Vote Labour again
Nice. I voted labour so you calling me a dumb fker? well who should i have voted for then? The Tory party? I dont think so... Labour, whilst being far from perfect, have done an OK job. Yes it could be better, but it could be a whole lot worse. Unfortunately Labour don’t have the luxury of selling all the oil, gas, electricity, telecomms, public transport, social housing in order to bail themselves out unlike the Tory party did. Remember that do we? I do...
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