Police overtime doubled in last 10 years... WHY?

[dandarez]

Today the news showed spending on police overtime has nearly doubled over the past decade despite record numbers of police officers.

Overtime payments in England and Wales have soared by around 90 per cent since 1999 and now stand at £400 million.

Overall spending on the police hit £14.5 billion last year, and the number of police officers reached an all-time high of 142,151 - more than 15,000 higher than 10 years ago.

What the hell were they doing? Paperwork? Noo Labour fault? There wasn't a miner's strike to my knowledge!

So Cameron and Cleggie want 6.5 billion cuts? Forget targeting the man in the street, how about halving the spending on the Police? One fell swoop...

Edited by dandarez on Thursday 13th May 10:49

[Morningside]

Common sense would tell you this. But the real trouble being, it would look like a 'cut to front line services'. Now, most of us know that that would be crap. But the average Joe on the street just sees £xxx million CUT from the Police force.

Labour would love it.

[Republik]

Paperwork I reckon. If they can get rid of most of this it will free up a heck of a lot of time for actual policing.

[amir_j]

Republik said:

Paperwork I reckon. If they can get rid of most of this it will free up a heck of a lot of time for actual policing.

Head of GMP was on Radio 4 this morning, one of the reasons was that nowadays they cannot charge a criminal, they have to consult CPS etc etc and drags on.

Edited by amir_j on Thursday 13th May 10:59

[tinman0]

We need a proper Three Strikes rule and a Habitual Offenders Law for the low level stuff.

That would reduce the Police's workload.

[Plotloss]

tinman0 said:

We need a proper Three Strikes rule and a Habitual Offenders Law for the low level stuff.

That would reduce the Police's workload.

Are prisons cheaper than coppers?

Three strikes = life a la the US would seem to cost more long term on the face of it.

[Fittster]

Because it's used to bump up salary. Offer your staff overtime and even if there's no real work to be done people will do it.

[JM]

The 'bill' for overtime payment has increased over the past ten years.


The number of police officers has increased over the last ten years.

The pay of police officers has increased in the last ten years.



Do you think there is a link?

Ofcourse there is the argument that more officers should equyal less doing overtime, but still in a job like the police there will always be overtime.

[ShadownINja]

Fittster said:

Because it's used to bump up salary. Offer your staff overtime and even if there's no real work to be done people will do it.

Those greedy bankers get everywhere.

[thinfourth2]

Plotloss said:

tinman0 said:

We need a proper Three Strikes rule and a Habitual Offenders Law for the low level stuff.

That would reduce the Police's workload.

Are prisons cheaper than coppers?

Three strikes = life a la the US would seem to cost more long term on the face of it.

I didn't hear anyone mentioning prisons

[Dupont666]

Here is an idea... ban overtime completely from the public sector.

They use it to bump up wages from dustbinmen to pen pushers, so all they do is work in the 9-5 and doss for a bit to get the overtime (1-2 hours a day)

so say its £14 per hour

1.5 hours per day

£105 per week

£5k a year.

Now multiply that by them all in the public sector 6 million.

thats 32760000000 or £32 billion... thats a bit low!!

I reckon its only a 1/3 so say £90 billion saved right there

[Plotloss]

thinfourth2 said:

Plotloss said:

tinman0 said:

We need a proper Three Strikes rule and a Habitual Offenders Law for the low level stuff.

That would reduce the Police's workload.

Are prisons cheaper than coppers?

Three strikes = life a la the US would seem to cost more long term on the face of it.

I didn't hear anyone mentioning prisons

As much as I support capital punishment and/or eugenics I'm not entirely sure what the other options are.

[mattviatura]

I'm not anti-old bill but I am anti-piss take spending. Apparently Cheshire Police have just bought some sort of highly expensive Eurocopter, I accept they might need a helicopter but isn't there a cheaper option?

Also round here they use X5s. Why? I know they are discounted but they'd also get a discount form Ford. I don't believe the BMWs are worth the extra cost.

This sort of thing is what upsets people about public sector waste yet all we have heard is bleating about cuts to front-line services.

I repeat I am not anti-police and would not want them unable to have the equipment to do their jobs like the poor sods in Afghanistan.

[Devil2575]

Dupont666 said:

Here is an idea... ban overtime completely from the public sector.

Because people like the Police have to work extra hours at the drop of a hat regardless of plans. can you imagine being involved in a car crash and half way through talking to you the police just left as it was clocking off time?

There are many reasons why the Police are doing a lot of extra overtime and not all of it is being paid for out of the puiblic purse. For example sports venues are actually paying to have additional policing.

As for statements like 'Why not just ban overtime in the public sector'...

With well considered thoughts like that i'm amazed you're not PM

[Dupont666]

Devil2575 said:

Dupont666 said:

Here is an idea... ban overtime completely from the public sector.

Because people like the Police have to work extra hours at the drop of a hat regardless of plans. can you imagine being involved in a car crash and half way through talking to you the police just left as it was clocking off time?

There are many reasons why the Police are doing a lot of extra overtime and not all of it is being paid for out of the puiblic purse. For example sports venues are actually paying to have additional policing.

As for statements like 'Why not just ban overtime in the public sector'...

With well considered thoughts like that i'm amazed you're not PM

Oh nos....

I dont get to walk away from my job either when the st hits the fan and the company can lose hundreds of thousands in money... I cant claim overtime for it, its part of the job and you are expected to do it... they choose to do the job, just as I did, both have the ability to make us work late when things happen (go wrong) one expects overtime as a god given right, one does not.

Its part of the job... I suspect you are one for firemen to claim danger money becuase they might have to deal with frie which is dangerous... No?

[HundredthIdiot]

Devil2575 said:

Because people like the Police have to work extra hours at the drop of a hat regardless of plans. can you imagine being involved in a car crash and half way through talking to you the police just left as it was clocking off time?

This can dealt with at no extra cost by time off in lieu.

[tinman0]

Plotloss said:

tinman0 said:

We need a proper Three Strikes rule and a Habitual Offenders Law for the low level stuff.

That would reduce the Police's workload.

Are prisons cheaper than coppers?

Three strikes = life a la the US would seem to cost more long term on the face of it.

Sorry, my benevolence towards the criminal underclass is somewhat at a low since someone set fire to my car in February, and someone did £200 of damage to the lock on my other vehicle 2 weeks ago.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

Dupont666 said:

Devil2575 said:

Dupont666 said:

Here is an idea... ban overtime completely from the public sector.

Because people like the Police have to work extra hours at the drop of a hat regardless of plans. can you imagine being involved in a car crash and half way through talking to you the police just left as it was clocking off time?

There are many reasons why the Police are doing a lot of extra overtime and not all of it is being paid for out of the puiblic purse. For example sports venues are actually paying to have additional policing.

As for statements like 'Why not just ban overtime in the public sector'...

With well considered thoughts like that i'm amazed you're not PM

Oh nos....

I dont get to walk away from my job either when the st hits the fan and the company can lose hundreds of thousands in money... I cant claim overtime for it, its part of the job and you are expected to do it... they choose to do the job, just as I did, both have the ability to make us work late when things happen (go wrong) one expects overtime as a god given right, one does not.

Its part of the job... I suspect you are one for firemen to claim danger money becuase they might have to deal with frie which is dangerous... No?

So you have a contract that states you are paid by the hour and are entitled to overtime but you refuse to claim it. Good on you. You agreed to certain working conditions then tore them up.

Are you regularly kept on every day? Most officers in 'front-line' roles will work extra time every shift. I on average work an hour extra unpaid. Many shifts will see response PC's kept on for 3-6 hours or longer. I've worked 26 hours shifts before through no choice of my own.

You work all the bank holidays as well I take it as part of your hourly wage? Or are you paid a salary? Do you get a bonus or any other perks? Or just your hourly wage that you are not paid for by the hour?


This overtime bill equates to around £2,700 per officer or roughly 130 -150 hours of work. As a lump sum it sounds very large but when you break it down its not quite so impressive.

The police at PC rank and Sgt rank are paid at hourly rates.

I'm sure some take the piss. Most officers I know work a lot of unpaid hours. Over the years this has diminished and the 'good will' that saw people not claim has vanished so more and more are claiming what they are entitled to claim.

I've probably not claimed for around £800 of overtime I'm entitled to this year. I won't be the only one. Problem is they've taken away so many other allowances for on call and plain clothes that officers who would not have claimed for things now do.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

mattviatura said:

I'm not anti-old bill but I am anti-piss take spending. Apparently Cheshire Police have just bought some sort of highly expensive Eurocopter, I accept they might need a helicopter but isn't there a cheaper option?

Also round here they use X5s. Why? I know they are discounted but they'd also get a discount form Ford. I don't believe the BMWs are worth the extra cost.

This sort of thing is what upsets people about public sector waste yet all we have heard is bleating about cuts to front-line services.

I repeat I am not anti-police and would not want them unable to have the equipment to do their jobs like the poor sods in Afghanistan.

Okay.

The helicopter is not part of the overtime budget, however it does massively save money and reduce the cost of resources for missing person searches and searches for offenders. The helicopter will be paid for within the budget and by savings in other things. The value the helicopter adds is reduced police pursuits and increased detection of offences in a time when offenders are very mobile.

X5''s. Which ford is it that does the same thing? They are cheaper than rangies and disco's and replace more expensive vehicles. They allow limited off road work combined with good on road work. In my force the introduction of them saw the fleet for one unit half in size as they were able to do most of the stuff they had 4x4's for.

[BruceV8]

Most police officers I speak to complain that the amount of overtime they can do is strictly limited.

In the armed forces you are paid 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If something needs to be done, it gets done. Usually this is compensated for with time off in lieu but not always. I might be wrong here, but I'm sure that back in the days of Dixon of Dock Green the police were similar. I don't imagine for a second that this scheme could ever return - or get past the federation - but it might be a starting point for discussion.