Sleaze spin started already.....
Discussion
Already I hear people who should know better, bemoaning the fact that inflation is rising, pound is going down, unemployment is up. It already was before the Tories had to grasp the poisoned Badger chalice.
I can see a repeat of the last cycle where the Tories fixed the economy and then the Labour louts buggered it.
I can see a repeat of the last cycle where the Tories fixed the economy and then the Labour louts buggered it.
StuartGGray said:
Already I hear people who should know better, bemoaning the fact that inflation is rising, pound is going down, unemployment is up. It already was before the Tories had to grasp the poisoned Badger chalice.
I can see a repeat of the last cycle where the Tories fixed the economy and then the Labour louts buggered it.
This is, unfortunately, likely. The amount of supposedly educated people I am acquainted with, who refuse to vote Tory because they are for Toffs & will cause unemployment blah blah, will only see the necessary cuts etc as further proof to cement the blinkers further in place. I can see a repeat of the last cycle where the Tories fixed the economy and then the Labour louts buggered it.
Eddw86 said:
StuartGGray said:
Already I hear people who should know better, bemoaning the fact that inflation is rising, pound is going down, unemployment is up. It already was before the Tories had to grasp the poisoned Badger chalice.
I can see a repeat of the last cycle where the Tories fixed the economy and then the Labour louts buggered it.
This is, unfortunately, likely. The amount of supposedly educated people I am acquainted with, who refuse to vote Tory because they are for Toffs & will cause unemployment blah blah, will only see the necessary cuts etc as further proof to cement the blinkers further in place. I can see a repeat of the last cycle where the Tories fixed the economy and then the Labour louts buggered it.
turbobloke said:
Given this why is there no willingness (apparently, as yet) to call in independent auditors possibly the IMF to assess the situation and publish an unbiased report on the total mess left by slugbrows and co?
Fear of the markets fleeing for the hills upon disclosure of the disastrous reality of the countries finances?How about Tory MPs already on the make?
Case 1:
“People who decry the defence industry should hang their heads in shame because it is a noble industry” new minister Gerald Howath MP once said. But then someone with such a close and long term association with the arms industry would say that, wouldn’t they?
Whilst a frontbench spokesman for defence under Michael Howard, Howarth was slammed in 2004 for providing a weapons lobbyist with a one of his allocated parliamentary staff passes. Michael Wood of lobbyists Whitehall Advisers (whose clients included BAE Systems and Airbus) who are the backbone of the UK’s billion pound arms industry. Like Caroline Spelman and her farming interests, David Cameron seemingly does not consider Howarth’s past connections to be an issue. Howarth has been made the parliamentary Under Secretary for Defence. He now has a direct role in arms procurement."
Case 2:
"The new Defra Secretary of State Caroline Spelman is tied up with the bio-tech/agri-business lobbying company “Spelman, Cormack & Associates”, that she co-founded with her husband Mark, Farmers Weekly have unravelled more decisions Spelman must recuse herself from:
“Mark Spelman is a managing director at Accenture, the firm that developed the online system that delivers subsidy payments to farmers. The Rural Payments Agency (RPA) awarded Accenture a £35m seven-year contract to develop new and more efficient systems in 2003. Accenture was appointed to develop and deliver the new system over two years and then provide ongoing support for the remaining five years.”
The disastrous Accenture deal that ended up costing £350 million is due to expire this year. Guess who is in charge of deciding if it is renewed?"
From that source of leftie information order-order.
They are all the same it's the system that needs to be changed.
Case 1:
“People who decry the defence industry should hang their heads in shame because it is a noble industry” new minister Gerald Howath MP once said. But then someone with such a close and long term association with the arms industry would say that, wouldn’t they?
Whilst a frontbench spokesman for defence under Michael Howard, Howarth was slammed in 2004 for providing a weapons lobbyist with a one of his allocated parliamentary staff passes. Michael Wood of lobbyists Whitehall Advisers (whose clients included BAE Systems and Airbus) who are the backbone of the UK’s billion pound arms industry. Like Caroline Spelman and her farming interests, David Cameron seemingly does not consider Howarth’s past connections to be an issue. Howarth has been made the parliamentary Under Secretary for Defence. He now has a direct role in arms procurement."
Case 2:
"The new Defra Secretary of State Caroline Spelman is tied up with the bio-tech/agri-business lobbying company “Spelman, Cormack & Associates”, that she co-founded with her husband Mark, Farmers Weekly have unravelled more decisions Spelman must recuse herself from:
“Mark Spelman is a managing director at Accenture, the firm that developed the online system that delivers subsidy payments to farmers. The Rural Payments Agency (RPA) awarded Accenture a £35m seven-year contract to develop new and more efficient systems in 2003. Accenture was appointed to develop and deliver the new system over two years and then provide ongoing support for the remaining five years.”
The disastrous Accenture deal that ended up costing £350 million is due to expire this year. Guess who is in charge of deciding if it is renewed?"
From that source of leftie information order-order.
They are all the same it's the system that needs to be changed.
Im sorry Fitt, but whats the problem with Howarth?
Wtf do people have against BAES FFS? They are up against massive competition from the American giants with deep American govt pockets to subsidise them for LM and an almost gauranteed market in the civilian market for Boing to use, not to mention the space delivery market. On the other side, EADS and Thales are squeezing BAES in Europe and the rest of the world. Yet amazingly for such a s
t bad, poorly run company, BAES keep managing to pull their weight and outdeliver the Americans at times and both the major European boys in an awful lot of cases. They are seriously high tech, they keep innovating on the manufacturing level and they employ a hell of a lot of people and if you want the UK to have any sort of ship building future left, then you better bloody hope BAES dont get another kicking aimed at them!
You, Cable, the SFO and the rest of the frigging idiots *really* need to understand the consequences of opening your gobs on people. Do you have any idea how much money the ordinary bog standard employees of BAES have lost over the last 2 or 3 yrs from the constant political football kicking that has been aimed at BAES? Of course you dont.
The govt shouldnt just have one close lobbyist of the damn company inside MOD procurement...it should have its hand permanently on its bloody cock! One sort of squeeze brings pleasure, another sort makes it scream. Thats how you keep your prime contractors in line. There is no such thing as morality in the industrial defence world, there is no point in pretending there is either. The end results of what are produced are invariably deadly and nasty and evil and really not very good for those on the receiving end of said goods. They are however, a neccessity. The govt has an obligation for at least competence in dealing and maintaining a vital part of its national security strategy. And BAES are rather integral to that like it or not. If you dont want them to be so, then fine, you make a policy decision and execute that, move in a different direction. But currently, that hasnt happened, the Govt very much *does* have them inside the tent and forming the damn cornerstone.
You have some bee in your little bonnet about The System Fitt. Most of us dont, we are too busy trying to pay our mortgages and do our own little bit for the economy of the country instead of trying to fk it. And no, Im not a BAES employee or shareholder, the exact opposite in fact 
Wtf do people have against BAES FFS? They are up against massive competition from the American giants with deep American govt pockets to subsidise them for LM and an almost gauranteed market in the civilian market for Boing to use, not to mention the space delivery market. On the other side, EADS and Thales are squeezing BAES in Europe and the rest of the world. Yet amazingly for such a s
t bad, poorly run company, BAES keep managing to pull their weight and outdeliver the Americans at times and both the major European boys in an awful lot of cases. They are seriously high tech, they keep innovating on the manufacturing level and they employ a hell of a lot of people and if you want the UK to have any sort of ship building future left, then you better bloody hope BAES dont get another kicking aimed at them!You, Cable, the SFO and the rest of the frigging idiots *really* need to understand the consequences of opening your gobs on people. Do you have any idea how much money the ordinary bog standard employees of BAES have lost over the last 2 or 3 yrs from the constant political football kicking that has been aimed at BAES? Of course you dont.
The govt shouldnt just have one close lobbyist of the damn company inside MOD procurement...it should have its hand permanently on its bloody cock! One sort of squeeze brings pleasure, another sort makes it scream. Thats how you keep your prime contractors in line. There is no such thing as morality in the industrial defence world, there is no point in pretending there is either. The end results of what are produced are invariably deadly and nasty and evil and really not very good for those on the receiving end of said goods. They are however, a neccessity. The govt has an obligation for at least competence in dealing and maintaining a vital part of its national security strategy. And BAES are rather integral to that like it or not. If you dont want them to be so, then fine, you make a policy decision and execute that, move in a different direction. But currently, that hasnt happened, the Govt very much *does* have them inside the tent and forming the damn cornerstone.
You have some bee in your little bonnet about The System Fitt. Most of us dont, we are too busy trying to pay our mortgages and do our own little bit for the economy of the country instead of trying to f
k it. And no, Im not a BAES employee or shareholder, the exact opposite in fact DJC said:
Im sorry Fitt, but whats the problem with Howarth?
You have some bee in your little bonnet about The System Fitt. Most of us dont, we are too busy trying to pay our mortgages and do our own little bit for the economy of the country instead of trying to fk it. And no, Im not a BAES employee or shareholder, the exact opposite in fact
The man takes a large salary from the public purse but appears very close to arms firms. Can you be sure he will look after the interest of the taxpayers over those of private companies (and his wallet)?You have some bee in your little bonnet about The System Fitt. Most of us dont, we are too busy trying to pay our mortgages and do our own little bit for the economy of the country instead of trying to f
k it. And no, Im not a BAES employee or shareholder, the exact opposite in fact Can you really not see what's the problem with that. A Tory piggy, just like the recently replaced Labour ones.
The footnote of the story: "Guido has more to come on this one…"
Almost any experience in an area of ministerial brief - defence, agriculture etc will lead to accusations of conflicts of interest.
Which, if it stops such people getting such jobs, is absolute bks. We ought to be thankful that the odd minister actually has a gnat's worth of knowledge about the work they're about to do.
Transparency and oversight are what matters. Not the fact that someone actually knows something about their job ffsk.
Which, if it stops such people getting such jobs, is absolute b
ks. We ought to be thankful that the odd minister actually has a gnat's worth of knowledge about the work they're about to do.Transparency and oversight are what matters. Not the fact that someone actually knows something about their job ffsk.
Leithen said:
Almost any experience in an area of ministerial brief - defence, agriculture etc will lead to accusations of conflicts of interest.
Which, if it stops such people getting such jobs, is absolute bks. We ought to be thankful that the odd minister actually has a gnat's worth of knowledge about the work they're about to do.
And when that knowledge and influence is used to acquire personal wealth it' something the electorate should be thankful for?Which, if it stops such people getting such jobs, is absolute b
ks. We ought to be thankful that the odd minister actually has a gnat's worth of knowledge about the work they're about to do.Fittster said:
Leithen said:
Almost any experience in an area of ministerial brief - defence, agriculture etc will lead to accusations of conflicts of interest.
Which, if it stops such people getting such jobs, is absolute bks. We ought to be thankful that the odd minister actually has a gnat's worth of knowledge about the work they're about to do.
And when that knowledge and influence is used to acquire personal wealth it' something the electorate should be thankful for?Which, if it stops such people getting such jobs, is absolute b
ks. We ought to be thankful that the odd minister actually has a gnat's worth of knowledge about the work they're about to do.Leithen said:
Fittster said:
Leithen said:
Almost any experience in an area of ministerial brief - defence, agriculture etc will lead to accusations of conflicts of interest.
Which, if it stops such people getting such jobs, is absolute bks. We ought to be thankful that the odd minister actually has a gnat's worth of knowledge about the work they're about to do.
And when that knowledge and influence is used to acquire personal wealth it' something the electorate should be thankful for?Which, if it stops such people getting such jobs, is absolute b
ks. We ought to be thankful that the odd minister actually has a gnat's worth of knowledge about the work they're about to do.
Fittster said:
DJC said:
Im sorry Fitt, but whats the problem with Howarth?
You have some bee in your little bonnet about The System Fitt. Most of us dont, we are too busy trying to pay our mortgages and do our own little bit for the economy of the country instead of trying to fk it. And no, Im not a BAES employee or shareholder, the exact opposite in fact
The man takes a large salary from the public purse but appears very close to arms firms. Can you be sure he will look after the interest of the taxpayers over those of private companies (and his wallet)?You have some bee in your little bonnet about The System Fitt. Most of us dont, we are too busy trying to pay our mortgages and do our own little bit for the economy of the country instead of trying to f
k it. And no, Im not a BAES employee or shareholder, the exact opposite in fact Can you really not see what's the problem with that. A Tory piggy, just like the recently replaced Labour ones.
The footnote of the story: "Guido has more to come on this one…"
fesuvious said:
Very much in contrast to the local candidate I was there to support, was quite a shock.
I remember the MP I was asking questions of (aboot the Iraq War) asked me if I was 'working' for someone. Like a member of the public is not meant to be well read and ask questions!!DJC said:
You, Cable, the SFO and the rest of the frigging idiots *really* need to understand the consequences of opening your gobs on people. Do you have any idea how much money the ordinary bog standard employees of BAES have lost over the last 2 or 3 yrs from the constant political football kicking that has been aimed at BAES? Of course you dont.
Perhaps your ire would be better directed at board members who continued a policy of bribery & corruption (don't kid yourself it was commission or "incentive" payments - it was straight corruption as defined in international and l;atterly UK law) over many years, continuing to flout the law as it developed, failing to co-operate with investigations, earning it a reputation as the most bent European corporation since Elf Aquitaine, and ultimately receiving the largest corruption fine in American history? They had ample opportunity to halt the policy and thought they were above the law - only when the risk of time in an American jail became real did they take it seriously.It's standard practice to criticise the criminals, not the Police who catch them.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff