UAF March in East London - Sunday
Discussion
Chaps,
I know there are threads elsewhere on PH about the UAF and EDL which have provoked fair discussion. I would initially have said that both groups were equally odious and my sympathies lay with neither, but having been on the Mile End Road yesterday afternoon somewhat changed my point of view.
Cutting a long story short, Mrs zcacogp and I had cause to drive down the Whitechapel Road yesterday, going into town. We were unaware of anything out of the ordinary going on until we reached Stepney Green, where the rate of progress became no more than a crawl. Fairly unremarkable ... but the crowds of people out and about weren't. The further into town you got the thicker the crowds got, many of them carrying placards and banners, and a LOT of them with hoods up and their faces covered. There were guys hanging out of the upstairs windows of the Royal London Hospital with banners, chanting "EDL, go to Hell", much to the delight of the crowds.
The atmosphere got worse the further we got into town, with large gangs of young men armed with sticks and chanting. Very few police were to be seen, and the atmosphere was ugly to say the least. There were clearly a lot of young men spoiling for a fight (and looking here, it looks like they found one.)
The reason? Apparently the EDL were due to have a march, but cancelled it after the local council called for peace. However this wasn't enough for the local UAF, who decided that despite there not being anyone to protest against, were going to fight anyway.
Every single person we saw 'protesting' was asian. And I found it deeply disturbing to see an immigrant population marching in public, armed with sticks, intent on violence.
EDL or UAF? One of them showed it's true colours. I know where my sympathies currently lie.
Oli.
I know there are threads elsewhere on PH about the UAF and EDL which have provoked fair discussion. I would initially have said that both groups were equally odious and my sympathies lay with neither, but having been on the Mile End Road yesterday afternoon somewhat changed my point of view.
Cutting a long story short, Mrs zcacogp and I had cause to drive down the Whitechapel Road yesterday, going into town. We were unaware of anything out of the ordinary going on until we reached Stepney Green, where the rate of progress became no more than a crawl. Fairly unremarkable ... but the crowds of people out and about weren't. The further into town you got the thicker the crowds got, many of them carrying placards and banners, and a LOT of them with hoods up and their faces covered. There were guys hanging out of the upstairs windows of the Royal London Hospital with banners, chanting "EDL, go to Hell", much to the delight of the crowds.
The atmosphere got worse the further we got into town, with large gangs of young men armed with sticks and chanting. Very few police were to be seen, and the atmosphere was ugly to say the least. There were clearly a lot of young men spoiling for a fight (and looking here, it looks like they found one.)
The reason? Apparently the EDL were due to have a march, but cancelled it after the local council called for peace. However this wasn't enough for the local UAF, who decided that despite there not being anyone to protest against, were going to fight anyway.
Every single person we saw 'protesting' was asian. And I found it deeply disturbing to see an immigrant population marching in public, armed with sticks, intent on violence.
EDL or UAF? One of them showed it's true colours. I know where my sympathies currently lie.
Oli.
Possibly - I hadn't heard of the UAF until I heard of the EDL.
The notion of large numbers of armed people roaming the streets looking for a fight was disturbing. The news reports spoke of one passer-by being attacked, but I can vouch for the fact that there were more than that. And if this is what they stand for, I know where my sympathies lie.
Neanderthal behaviour. Nothing more, with no place in civilised society.
Oli.
The notion of large numbers of armed people roaming the streets looking for a fight was disturbing. The news reports spoke of one passer-by being attacked, but I can vouch for the fact that there were more than that. And if this is what they stand for, I know where my sympathies lie.
Neanderthal behaviour. Nothing more, with no place in civilised society.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Possibly - I hadn't heard of the UAF until I heard of the EDL.
The notion of large numbers of armed people roaming the streets looking for a fight was disturbing. The news reports spoke of one passer-by being attacked, but I can vouch for the fact that there were more than that. And if this is what they stand for, I know where my sympathies lie.
Neanderthal behaviour. Nothing more, with no place in civilised society.
Oli.
I don't know if you remember the Poll Tax riots, but I'm pretty sure the UAF were fairly central.The notion of large numbers of armed people roaming the streets looking for a fight was disturbing. The news reports spoke of one passer-by being attacked, but I can vouch for the fact that there were more than that. And if this is what they stand for, I know where my sympathies lie.
Neanderthal behaviour. Nothing more, with no place in civilised society.
Oli.
I think it's some weird irony. Although the various fascist brigades have, and have had, questionable ideals, in practice they are like bumble bees. The UAF are more like wasps. They're light, sting like buggers, and don't think twice about it.
It's also notable that the fascists usually at least try to grace the political system in a formal way. The UAF never have.
Pothole said:
OP. A slight error in your assumption that these 'Asian' 'young men' are immigrants. They are quite unlikely, in that area to be immigrants, they will have been born here. As such they were exercising their rights to protest just like any other citizen can.
What PC claptrap!! The problem is that passports have been given away like sweeties to those who have no interest in the norms and values of their adopted country.Who exactly has a right to protest wihilst armed. Are you crazy??
Quite frankly they can FI or FO.
The left wing approach of acceptance and tolerance of everything has caused the flight to the right that can especially be seen in Holland right now.
Pothole said:
OP. A slight error in your assumption that these 'Asian' 'young men' are immigrants. They are quite unlikely, in that area to be immigrants, they will have been born here. As such they were exercising their rights to protest just like any other citizen can.
Pothole, A good point, and I considered the word I used before I typed it. However, given that I have lived in this area for the last 16 years and watched the asian population grow dramatically in that time, I strongly suggest that a sizable number of them were immigrants.
I'd add that the huge number of adverts in the local press for "Immigration/Asylum Lawyers", and the activities of the Home Office in deporting local people from that community, probably suggest the same thing.
Oli.
Little in the way of media exposure on this not even in the DM, If the EDL has attacked the police would it have received more? and of course BBC/ITV would have used the term "far right" whilst never once using an emotive term to describe the UAF.
Be interesting to see if there is the usual local govt response of ploughing more money into the area to" help community cohesion"
Be interesting to see if there is the usual local govt response of ploughing more money into the area to" help community cohesion"
Edited by Dr Phibes on Monday 21st June 15:01
Edited by Dr Phibes on Monday 21st June 15:06
Yes, I am VERY surprised how little press coverage there is of this one. I genuinely expectecd it to have something akin to headline billing on the R4 news last night, but there wasn't even a mention of it.
There already have been HUGE sums of money poured into the area in the name of 'cohesion'. To say it is an utter, utter disgrace would be to understate it. And let's bear in mind that the East London Mosque is supposed to be one of the more 'moderate' and 'better integrated' ones.
(To suggest that certain people associated with the local council were lining their pockets very tidily would be a pretty large understatement as well.)
Oli.
There already have been HUGE sums of money poured into the area in the name of 'cohesion'. To say it is an utter, utter disgrace would be to understate it. And let's bear in mind that the East London Mosque is supposed to be one of the more 'moderate' and 'better integrated' ones.
(To suggest that certain people associated with the local council were lining their pockets very tidily would be a pretty large understatement as well.)
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Yes, I am VERY surprised how little press coverage there is of this one. I genuinely expectecd it to have something akin to headline billing on the R4 news last night, but there wasn't even a mention of it.
There already have been HUGE sums of money poured into the area in the name of 'cohesion'. To say it is an utter, utter disgrace would be to understate it. And let's bear in mind that the East London Mosque is supposed to be one of the more 'moderate' and 'better integrated' ones.
(To suggest that certain people associated with the local council were lining their pockets very tidily would be a pretty large understatement as well.)
Oli.
And very little traffic on this thread in general, but then again the march provides nothing to beat the nasty white, black and some brown horrid racist thug members of the EDL with. There already have been HUGE sums of money poured into the area in the name of 'cohesion'. To say it is an utter, utter disgrace would be to understate it. And let's bear in mind that the East London Mosque is supposed to be one of the more 'moderate' and 'better integrated' ones.
(To suggest that certain people associated with the local council were lining their pockets very tidily would be a pretty large understatement as well.)
Oli.
Still shows the true colours of the UAF in all its glory.
zcacogp said:
Pothole said:
OP. A slight error in your assumption that these 'Asian' 'young men' are immigrants. They are quite unlikely, in that area to be immigrants, they will have been born here. As such they were exercising their rights to protest just like any other citizen can.
Pothole, A good point, and I considered the word I used before I typed it. However, given that I have lived in this area for the last 16 years and watched the asian population grow dramatically in that time, I strongly suggest that a sizable number of them were immigrants.
I'd add that the huge number of adverts in the local press for "Immigration/Asylum Lawyers", and the activities of the Home Office in deporting local people from that community, probably suggest the same thing.
Oli.
FarleyRusk said:
Pothole said:
OP. A slight error in your assumption that these 'Asian' 'young men' are immigrants. They are quite unlikely, in that area to be immigrants, they will have been born here. As such they were exercising their rights to protest just like any other citizen can.
What PC claptrap!! The problem is that passports have been given away like sweeties to those who have no interest in the norms and values of their adopted country.Who exactly has a right to protest wihilst armed. Are you crazy??
Quite frankly they can FI or FO.
The left wing approach of acceptance and tolerance of everything has caused the flight to the right that can especially be seen in Holland right now.
ks. I was making the point that people who are born here are not classed as immigrants AS THE PERSON IT WAS AIMED AT FULLY UNDERSTOOD.Hedders said:
Pothole,
People with dark skin in the UK are immigrants, either they or their family immigrated here.
It is not rocket science. If my parents emigrated to china it would not make me chinese, it would make me the son of immigrants.
Rubbish. Anyone born here who has a British passport is not an immigrant, whatever their parents' status is.People with dark skin in the UK are immigrants, either they or their family immigrated here.
It is not rocket science. If my parents emigrated to china it would not make me chinese, it would make me the son of immigrants.
Are you really saying that a black person whose Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandparents came to UK 200 years ago is still an immigrant themselves?
ETA, by your definition I am an immigrant. My Maternal Grandparents came from Ireland in the early 20th Century. Or am I alright because I'm white?
Edited by Pothole on Monday 21st June 20:04
Pothole said:
FarleyRusk said:
Pothole said:
OP. A slight error in your assumption that these 'Asian' 'young men' are immigrants. They are quite unlikely, in that area to be immigrants, they will have been born here. As such they were exercising their rights to protest just like any other citizen can.
What PC claptrap!! The problem is that passports have been given away like sweeties to those who have no interest in the norms and values of their adopted country.Who exactly has a right to protest wihilst armed. Are you crazy??
Quite frankly they can FI or FO.
The left wing approach of acceptance and tolerance of everything has caused the flight to the right that can especially be seen in Holland right now.
ks. I was making the point that people who are born here are not classed as immigrants AS THE PERSON IT WAS AIMED AT FULLY UNDERSTOOD.I know that is more a moral or cultural statement but 99% of legal immigrants to America would turn round and say they where American, why so different here.
Dr Phibes said:
Pothole said:
FarleyRusk said:
Pothole said:
OP. A slight error in your assumption that these 'Asian' 'young men' are immigrants. They are quite unlikely, in that area to be immigrants, they will have been born here. As such they were exercising their rights to protest just like any other citizen can.
What PC claptrap!! The problem is that passports have been given away like sweeties to those who have no interest in the norms and values of their adopted country.Who exactly has a right to protest wihilst armed. Are you crazy??
Quite frankly they can FI or FO.
The left wing approach of acceptance and tolerance of everything has caused the flight to the right that can especially be seen in Holland right now.
ks. I was making the point that people who are born here are not classed as immigrants AS THE PERSON IT WAS AIMED AT FULLY UNDERSTOOD.I know that is more a moral or cultural statement but 99% of legal immigrants to America would turn round and say they where American, why so different here.
ETA in any case it was a point I took up with the OP, he answered and imo it's closed now.
Edited by Pothole on Monday 21st June 20:11
Pothole said:
Hedders said:
Pothole,
People with dark skin in the UK are immigrants, either they or their family immigrated here.
It is not rocket science. If my parents emigrated to china it would not make me chinese, it would make me the son of immigrants.
Rubbish. Anyone born here who has a British passport is not an immigrant, whatever their parents' status is.People with dark skin in the UK are immigrants, either they or their family immigrated here.
It is not rocket science. If my parents emigrated to china it would not make me chinese, it would make me the son of immigrants.
Are you really saying that a black person whose Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandparents came to UK 200 years ago is still an immigrant themselves?
ETA, by your definition I am an immigrant. My Maternal Grandparents came from Ireland in the early 20th Century. Or am I alright because I'm white?
Edited by Pothole on Monday 21st June 20:04
If i was in your position, (my grand parents were English but i was living in Ireland) I would probably think of myslef as English, as that is my heritage.
Do you think a pair of somalians that arrive in the UK and have a baby regard that baby as British, or somalian with all the rights of being British?
With regard to the Great great great grandfather scenario. Ask a black american if he considers himself to be 'african american' and then ask if he has ever been to africa
There is nothing wrong with holding on to your heritage!
Hedders said:
Pothole,
People with dark skin in the UK are immigrants, either they or their family immigrated here.
It is not rocket science. If my parents emigrated to china it would not make me chinese, it would make me the son of immigrants.
That's wrong. Actually, very wrong.People with dark skin in the UK are immigrants, either they or their family immigrated here.
It is not rocket science. If my parents emigrated to china it would not make me chinese, it would make me the son of immigrants.
And I wouldn't rush to judge yourself by Chinese standards and ethics.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 21st June 20:13
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