Future of the economy - what needs to be done?
Discussion
Have been reading a lot of the threads like public sector and other threads, often about how much tax payers money gets flushed down the toilet.
A lot of it, if true is deeply disturbing, and makes you realise how much of our hard earned is wasted by the state. Obviously, mush of it is spent on good, worthwhile things (Generally front line staff). However, I do not see much of a need for literature printed in 10 languages and other such examples of waste.
I am firmly of the opinion that simply cutting jobs is not enough. Mass job losses - more people on benefits - further drain on economy. However, obviously the cost is less as some of these 30K positions are no more.
I think that we need to manufacture again, and in a big way. We need to be able to sell our products to a fairly skint marketplace. Natural trading partners would be europe, so what to make and sell? What do you guys and girls think we should be doing? I personally think we could make some big advances in the renewable energy markets.
Any captains of industry out there who has some experience of what needs to be done?
A lot of it, if true is deeply disturbing, and makes you realise how much of our hard earned is wasted by the state. Obviously, mush of it is spent on good, worthwhile things (Generally front line staff). However, I do not see much of a need for literature printed in 10 languages and other such examples of waste.
I am firmly of the opinion that simply cutting jobs is not enough. Mass job losses - more people on benefits - further drain on economy. However, obviously the cost is less as some of these 30K positions are no more.
I think that we need to manufacture again, and in a big way. We need to be able to sell our products to a fairly skint marketplace. Natural trading partners would be europe, so what to make and sell? What do you guys and girls think we should be doing? I personally think we could make some big advances in the renewable energy markets.
Any captains of industry out there who has some experience of what needs to be done?
I think the problem why we don't manafacture is down to the cost of doing so in this country, when you take in to account all the tax a company is liable for, the minimum wage for employees and the pay rises they ask for every year to live in some degree of comfort here, transport costs with the high cost of fuel/road fund etc it is easy to see why importing goods is a far cheaper option. Until there are big changes I think the UK is stuck importing.
But we do have a large manufacturing industry, whilst we have lost the more visible heavy industries over the last 40 years thanks to a combination of the labour party, the unions and high labour/energy/materials costs, we still have a massive number of businesses making higher value goods, so many in fact that we are the 6th largest manufacturing nation on the planet . . . . . . . .not bad for a little island that’s been run into the ground by self-serving socialists and corrupt unions for the past 13 years.
Our biggest issue will be the increased competition from the likes of India and China, where industry has been allowed and in the case of Corus encouraged and rewarded handsomely to transfer production and intellectual resources out of the UK . . . . . . . . . Which may well ultimately lead to a loss of our profitable specialist manufacturers.
Our biggest issue will be the increased competition from the likes of India and China, where industry has been allowed and in the case of Corus encouraged and rewarded handsomely to transfer production and intellectual resources out of the UK . . . . . . . . . Which may well ultimately lead to a loss of our profitable specialist manufacturers.
Edited by AndrewW-G on Sunday 27th June 15:35
AndrewW-G said:
we are the 6th largest manufacturing nation on the planet . . .
And despite this, can't pay our way, nor, it would appear, can many others.Edited by AndrewW-G on Sunday 27th June 15:35
Including the largest manufacturing country.
The traditional model has broken down but a new one has not yet emerged.
It isn't going to happen. Cameron hasn't the pills to do what is necessary in job cuts, then the Unions will be back in on the back of the bad feeling. 2012 will destroy any hope of the welfare state costing in, and we'll go down the pan just as the Soviets did.
Enjoy the London 'communist bicycle' scheme while you can.
Enjoy the London 'communist bicycle' scheme while you can.
WhoseGeneration said:
AndrewW-G said:
we are the 6th largest manufacturing nation on the planet . . .
And despite this, can't pay our way, nor, it would appear, can many others.Edited by AndrewW-G on Sunday 27th June 15:35
Including the largest manufacturing country.
The traditional model has broken down but a new one has not yet emerged.
RichardD said:
Isn't the problem the problem of continual exponential expansion? Expansion is necessary in order to pay the interest (debt cost) of the extra money in the system? Because money is generally debt (through bank loans) unless a government gets a bit naughty and does some money printing.....?
I think "exponential" is a touch of hyperbole on your part, exponential graphs, in this context being frightening, however I appreciate your meaning.Truth is, we have to have expansion, a fact politicians understand all too well.
Their task should be to manage that to ensure some stability in relation to other currencies.
Now, of course, we could all enter the old debate about Fiat versus "? backed" money. That would be a dead end, we have Fiat and will continue to do so.
Ultimately though, for any economy, it's all based on added value being generated somewhere.
Help private businesses to succeed.
Cut waste in the public sector.
Make it less comfortable for the unemployed.
Crack down on benefit cheats and tax avoidance.
Help people to go out and work (ie childcare).
Bring public sector pensions and payrises inline with private sector.
All the usual stuff.....
Cut waste in the public sector.
Make it less comfortable for the unemployed.
Crack down on benefit cheats and tax avoidance.
Help people to go out and work (ie childcare).
Bring public sector pensions and payrises inline with private sector.
All the usual stuff.....
-Pete- said:
Help private businesses to succeed.
Cut waste in the public sector.
Make it less comfortable for the unemployed.
Crack down on benefit cheats and tax avoidance.
Help people to go out and work (ie childcare).
Bring public sector pensions and payrises inline with private sector.
All the usual stuff.....
Just one question, would all the above be enough to ensure the UK being able to "pay it's way" in today's world?Cut waste in the public sector.
Make it less comfortable for the unemployed.
Crack down on benefit cheats and tax avoidance.
Help people to go out and work (ie childcare).
Bring public sector pensions and payrises inline with private sector.
All the usual stuff.....
WhoseGeneration said:
Fittster said:
Dump Keynes for Hayek (no, not the one with big tits, the one from Austria).
Had we not all agreed that the self proclaimed Keynesians were nothing of the sort, only using his ideas as an excuse for their actions?Political distortion as it were.
"During Thatcher's only visit to the Conservative Research Department in the summer of 1975, a speaker had prepared a paper on why the "middle way" was the pragmatic path the Conservative Party should take, avoiding the extremes of left and right. Before he had finished, Thatcher "reached into her briefcase and took out a book. It was Friedrich von Hayek's The Constitution of Liberty. Interrupting our pragmatist, she held the book up for all of us to see. 'This', she said sternly, 'is what we believe', and banged Hayek down on the table"
I've very much doubt CMD has anything as useful in his briefcase.
Fittster said:
I fail to see any politician or central bankers signing up to Hayek.
Why would they want to?For that would mean their having to have less control.
True free markets would, for instance, mean a free market in money, in that anyone should be able to issue money. The market would decide which money succeded.
That'd be fun.
Well, how it sorta all started.
WhoseGeneration said:
RichardD said:
Isn't the problem the problem of continual exponential expansion? Expansion is necessary in order to pay the interest (debt cost) of the extra money in the system? Because money is generally debt (through bank loans) unless a government gets a bit naughty and does some money printing.....?
I think "exponential" is a touch of hyperbole on your part, exponential graphs, in this context being frightening, however I appreciate your meaning.Truth is, we have to have expansion, a fact politicians understand all too well.
Their task should be to manage that to ensure some stability in relation to other currencies.
Now, of course, we could all enter the old debate about Fiat versus "? backed" money. That would be a dead end, we have Fiat and will continue to do so.
Ultimately though, for any economy, it's all based on added value being generated somewhere.
Also what is value, OK daft question, but who decides what is value? In a democracy the people would but where we are now, how much is the government able to do so? Hence another trick for continuing the cycle....
Hell27 said:
Any captains of industry out there who has some experience of what needs to be done?
Look out for helicoptershttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambrose...
NoelWatson said:
Thanks for that jolly start to the week 
telegraph said:
The only plausible escape route for the West is a decade of fiscal austerity offset by helicopter drops of printed money, for as long as it takes.
I recon that the UK needs to look to itself and fix its own internal issues before going off trying to fix the rest of the world's problems.
Run the public sector more like private, with performance based reward and a more commercial focused spend.
as mentioned above somewhere, stop making benefits a lifestyle choice and more of a last resort crutch for people who are genuinely in dire straits (as opposed to money for nothing ... see what i did there?? )
However its very easy to say all this and bloody hard to impliment.
Run the public sector more like private, with performance based reward and a more commercial focused spend.
as mentioned above somewhere, stop making benefits a lifestyle choice and more of a last resort crutch for people who are genuinely in dire straits (as opposed to money for nothing ... see what i did there?? )
However its very easy to say all this and bloody hard to impliment.
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