Windmill Farm

[The real Apache]

There is an attempt to build one of these things where I live, can anyone point me to some data to throw at them to point out the folly of there ambitions?

[FourWheelDrift]

High winds, quite common in the UK - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty-vH42H_7k

[F i F]

You mean stuff like if there is no wind some of them fire up a diesel generator to keep the blades turning and avoiding engineering problems with the blades etc. Also if there isn't enough wind to get the generator in phase with the grid again they use power from the genny or the grid to get it going properly.

Stuff like that?

[The real Apache]

[ShadownINja]

F i F said:

You mean stuff like if there is no wind some of them fire up a diesel generator to keep the blades turning and avoiding engineering problems with the blades etc. Also if there isn't enough wind to get the generator in phase with the grid again they use power from the genny or the grid to get it going properly.

Stuff like that?

You're kidding, right? Is there any single green initiative that isn't idiotic?

[F i F]

ShadownINja said:

You're kidding, right?

Sadly I'm not, they keep quiet about that sort of stuff.

[ShadownINja]

F i F said:

ShadownINja said:

You're kidding, right?

Sadly I'm not, they keep quiet about that sort of stuff.

Unsurprisingly. Any info online?

[stevejh]

This might help;

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/political-climate/fi...

I think I would show that video of the disintegrating wind turbine to anybody who might be living close to a proposed windfarm site. However small the chance of that happening I personally wouldn't want to be anywhere near a wind turbine that is failing - they're not small things are they.

[erdnase]

I think they're pretty cool.. I always love driving past the huge wind farms and seeing the size and scale of those things.

You'd think that we have enough wind these days anyway, and don't need these so called wind-farms making more.

[ShadownINja]

[colonel c]

My dog doesn’t like them. But I do. I don't care if they aren’t as efficient as they are made out to be. We need power stations of all kinds. I therefor nominate the OP as complaining NIMBY..

[Badgerboy]

colonel c said:

My dog doesn’t like them. But I do. I don't care if they aren’t as efficient as they are made out to be. We need power stations of all kinds. I therefor nominate the OP as complaining NIMBY..

If by 'aren't as efficient' you mean 'use more energy to build, fit, and operate than they ever give back' then yes, you are correct. It would be easier to convert a coal powered powerstation to burn money. It would likely be more efficent too.

[hyperblue]

colonel c said:

My dog doesn’t like them. But I do. I don't care if they aren’t as efficient as they are made out to be. We need power stations of all kinds. I therefor nominate the OP as complaining NIMBY..

The more of them you build, the more conventional capacity you need to cover for days when it's not windy. They should stop arsing about with them and build what we actually need - some nuclear power stations.

[F i F]

hyperblue said:

colonel c said:

My dog doesn’t like them. But I do. I don't care if they aren’t as efficient as they are made out to be. We need power stations of all kinds. I therefor nominate the OP as complaining NIMBY..

The more of them you build, the more conventional capacity you need to cover for days when it's not windy. They should stop arsing about with them and build what we actually need - some nuclear power stations.

Actually it's more complicated than that, because the load on the grid varies throughout the day the baseload is supplemented by generating capacity which can be two shifted, ie switched on to cover the morning and evening peaks. That gives operational problems but controllable ones because the kit is fired up and shutdown at reasonable rates.

However with wind power a shift in wind speed of only a few m/s results in massive shifts of output in very short time spans. Coal and nuclear cannot react at these speeds, gas is a little better if you ignore the combined cycle part of the gig and just run the turbines on open cycle. Also diesel generation can ramp up and down.

So what it means is that because wind power is so variable on a minute by minute basis you have to have a stload of generation kit running to deal with the shortfalls and / or excesses at very short notice, and the only kit available is very inefficient.

You just couldn't make it up.


@ ShadowNinja looking for a link, the conf where I heard the paper doesn't have the papers online, and I've lent somebody the CD, will try and get the thing back to get you a reference.

@ OP.

http://www.wind-watch.org/ Note the what to do if you are targeted page USA based unfortunately
http://www.countryguardian.net/ UK
http://www.windaction.org/

You should be able to follow links around the place from these.

Good luck.

[The real Apache]

colonel c said:

My dog doesn’t like them. But I do. I don't care if they aren’t as efficient as they are made out to be. We need power stations of all kinds. I therefor nominate the OP as complaining NIMBY..

Fair enough Colonel, but in return I have to nominate you as someone who doesn't understand the ramifications of diverting much needed funds to a useless source of energy

[stevejh]

This might help;

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/political-climate/fi...

I think I would show that video of the disintegrating wind turbine to anybody who might be living close to a proposed windfarm site. However small the chance of that happening I personally wouldn't want to be anywhere near a wind turbine that is failing - they're not small things are they.

[OnTheOverrun]

The real Apache said:

There is an attempt to build one of these things where I live, can anyone point me to some data to throw at them to point out the folly of there ambitions?

Where I live we have been very effective in stopping the construction of these entirely pointless devices:

http://www.thwart.info/

HTH

[Tsippy]

Do you have any rare bird species in the area ? A school in Hants has had to remove their windymill because it was killing seagulls

The headmaster had to turn up early every morning to clear up decapitated birds before the kids came in

[Sarkmeister]

F i F said:

You mean stuff like if there is no wind some of them fire up a diesel generator to keep the blades turning and avoiding engineering problems with the blades etc. Also if there isn't enough wind to get the generator in phase with the grid again they use power from the genny or the grid to get it going properly.

Stuff like that?

I'm by no means a fan of onshore wind power, however most of the above statement is just bull.

[pgtips]

F i F said:

You mean stuff like if there is no wind some of them fire up a diesel generator to keep the blades turning and avoiding engineering problems with the blades etc. Also if there isn't enough wind to get the generator in phase with the grid again they use power from the genny or the grid to get it going properly.

Stuff like that?

Are you absolutely sure about this?