Scotland to fully disconnect from the uk - how much debt

[Welshbeef]

Scottish mps are pushing hard that they would be better fully devolved.

Question is how much of the structual govt debt and how much of defecit would they inherit?
I'm assuming noone has done this calc as yet as currently englands tax revenue is going out to Scotland ditto Wales

[reggie82]

I have no idea, I do know many Scotts claim the North Sea Oil would be theirs though.

[Eric Mc]

Think of all the HMRC employees who would lose their jobs - as well as the RAF bases and Navy bases.

[Welshbeef]

Isn't it bp and shells?
They pay their taxes where the hq are and the employees paye in the country they reside.

[Welshbeef]

Given the oil claim they would make could you not say I'll take your oil claim and raise you a royal bank of Scotland..

In fact given they would not make any cuts carry on fully funding uni fees and oap care home costs would they simply romp away to low country credit rating?growth is from where?

[Stevenj214]

Welshbeef said:

Scottish mps are pushing hard that they would be better fully devolved.

Question is how much of the structual govt debt and how much of defecit would they inherit?
I'm assuming noone has done this calc as yet as currently englands tax revenue is going out to Scotland ditto Wales

A fully devolved Scotland would still be part of the UK, so it would remain UK debt and deficit I would have thought?

For an independent Scotland, a settlement would be negotiated with the UK government.

[Welshbeef]

So the route they are planning is more control of taxes. So given they do have a share of the debt if they cut nothing how do they square the circle
do they expect the residents in Wales and England and n Ireland to be mugs and pay for them??

[rudecherub]

Welshbeef said:

Scottish mps are pushing hard that they would be better fully devolved.

Question is how much of the structual govt debt and how much of defecit would they inherit?

I'm assuming noone has done this calc as yet as currently englands tax revenue is going out to Scotland ditto Wales

The treasury knows how much money is spent in Scotland, ie significantly more per head than England.

Independence would mean a figure reflecting that % would be easy to obtain I should think,

Given the relatively tiny population, per head that debt would be massive, given Scotland's state dependency is so great

As for N. Sea oil the problem has always been the Scots looking at a map and thinking the border would continue in a straight line across the N. sea, of course they've forgotten the Earth is curved, and roughly half the oil fields fall into English waters, add to that Scotland has year on year always received more cash per head, they've nothing to complain about.

But the idea that the scots are careful with money is as outmoded as the flat earth, just look at the Scottish Parliament for crazy spending - and that was just building the great ugly thing.

[rs1952]

Its not that long ago that Home Rule Alex was spouting about how much better off the Scots would be if they left the UK and got more closely involved with what he called the "Arc of Prosperity" around Scotland.

Prosperous nations like Iceland and Ireland .....

The best laid plans of mice and men ....

[Welshbeef]

So based upon that why do the smps think they can seriously get away with it. As if they carry on it will be the biggest swindle ever in the uk.
For them it's great and clearly why would they want any change?
Just announced free prescriptions for all.. Um giden spend is drastically over income what did they cut and why doesn't Whitehall overrule them as this is just about as much fun as an ice bath nude in front of the ladies

[Stevenj214]

"Scotland's public finances are in a healthy position, with the country generating more income than it spends even in a period of recession, official statistics published today show. This is the fourth year in a row that Scotland has generated a current budget surplus, compared to a UK-wide deficit over the same period."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/06/2...

[Welshbeef]

Stevenj214 said:

"Scotland's public finances are in a healthy position, with the country generating more income than it spends even in a period of recession, official statistics published today show. This is the fourth year in a row that Scotland has generated a current budget surplus, compared to a UK-wide deficit over the same period."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/06/2...

what ? Um clearly that excludes the bailing out of RBS their bank. Wasn't that £26billions?

[Stevenj214]

Welshbeef said:

Stevenj214 said:

"Scotland's public finances are in a healthy position, with the country generating more income than it spends even in a period of recession, official statistics published today show. This is the fourth year in a row that Scotland has generated a current budget surplus, compared to a UK-wide deficit over the same period."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/06/2...

what ? Um clearly that excludes the bailing out of RBS their bank. Wasn't that £26billions?

It includes a share of the UK government banking bailout. You would have to check the GERS report for an exact figure.

[rs1952]

Welshbeef said:

Stevenj214 said:

"Scotland's public finances are in a healthy position, with the country generating more income than it spends even in a period of recession, official statistics published today show. This is the fourth year in a row that Scotland has generated a current budget surplus, compared to a UK-wide deficit over the same period."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/06/2...

what ? Um clearly that excludes the bailing out of RBS their bank. Wasn't that £26billions?

Erm, excuse me gents, but that is a scotland.gov.uk web addres. It is the Scottish Government's website. The party in charge, albeit of a minority administration, is the SNP.

What the fk would you expect them to say? "Haggisland has gone down the pan??!" That not the way politics works - Rule 1 - if you can find a positive spin to put on a story, spin it for all its worth.

[Stevenj214]

rs1952 said:

Erm, excuse me gents, but that is a scotland.gov.uk web addres. It is the Scottish Government's website. The party in charge, albeit of a minority administration, is the SNP.

What the fk would you expect them to say? "Haggisland has gone down the pan??!" That not the way politics works - Rule 1 - if you can find a positive spin to put on a story, spin it for all its worth.

The report the figures come from is a National Statistics publication.

[munroman]

Stevenj214 said:

rs1952 said:

Erm, excuse me gents, but that is a scotland.gov.uk web addres. It is the Scottish Government's website. The party in charge, albeit of a minority administration, is the SNP.

What the fk would you expect them to say? "Haggisland has gone down the pan??!" That not the way politics works - Rule 1 - if you can find a positive spin to put on a story, spin it for all its worth.

The report the figures come from is a National Statistics publication.

Oh, that will be inconvenient for some.......

[cerbfan]

I'm not for devolution being an English man in Scotland, however I don't agree with a few things on here. The North Sea was split up amongst the surrounding countries as a proportion of length of coastline bordering the North Sea hence why the UK did so well out of it. So to be fair any split between Scotland and England would have to be done along the same lines and you only have to look at a map to see who would do by far the best out of that arrangement. England would be left with virtually nothing apart from the Southern North Sea gas fields which are all old and in terminal decline. All the Oil fields would be Scotland's and all the areas with the best chance of future discoveries such as West of Shetland would also be there's so they would do very well out of it.
Oil and Gas as far as I can see contributes 2.5% of GDP to the UK economy so would be huge if Scotland received most of that. On top of this they have the worlds best wind and tidal resources for future energy and revenue streams.

So I guess it may actually be a good thing for them, just a shame the SNP are useless

[hornet]

Stevenj214 said:

"Scotland's public finances are in a healthy position, with the country generating more income than it spends even in a period of recession, official statistics published today show. This is the fourth year in a row that Scotland has generated a current budget surplus, compared to a UK-wide deficit over the same period."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/06/2...

My devolution knowledge is lacking, but when it says "more than it spends", does that mean "more than Scotland spends in Scotland", or "more than the UK spends in Scotland"? Is there a difference? Presumably there is spending in Scotland, by Scotland, based on Scottish income, then there's spending in Scotland but by the UK as a whole, or is the latter not the case with a devolved parliament?

[Welshbeef]

What about rbs?
I'm sure if a London based only bank went belly up Scotland would argue they contribute nothing towards it however in reverse would they accept the whole cost of bailing out rbs

[rs1952]

Stevenj214 said:

rs1952 said:

Erm, excuse me gents, but that is a scotland.gov.uk web addres. It is the Scottish Government's website. The party in charge, albeit of a minority administration, is the SNP.

What the fk would you expect them to say? "Haggisland has gone down the pan??!" That not the way politics works - Rule 1 - if you can find a positive spin to put on a story, spin it for all its worth.

The report the figures come from is a National Statistics publication.

And how would Scottish Labour and Lib Dem MSPs spin the results?