London firefighters to strike on Bonfire Night
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-116234...
What's the consensus on emergency services being allowed to strike? Police can't and I don't recall the ambulance service etc ever striking (happy to be wrong on this.) With Trumptons however it seems to crop up every now and then.
What's the consensus on emergency services being allowed to strike? Police can't and I don't recall the ambulance service etc ever striking (happy to be wrong on this.) With Trumptons however it seems to crop up every now and then.
97rsr said:
Ambulance strike 1989-90 over pay.
Us "Trumptons" went on strike in 76 and 02/03 over pay and conditions. Trumptons now on strike over threat of being sacked on 26 November, because we won't accept imposed contracts that will lead to closures of fire stations at night. There has a been a leaked document covering these closures and it is up to 25% of stations in London which is unacceptable.
Hopefully you will never be trapped in your car or involved in a fire, but if you ever are and survive, you can go to Camberwick Green and say thanks to the Trumptons.
I find the promotion of fear in your response "unacceptable" too. Uncanny, eh?Us "Trumptons" went on strike in 76 and 02/03 over pay and conditions. Trumptons now on strike over threat of being sacked on 26 November, because we won't accept imposed contracts that will lead to closures of fire stations at night. There has a been a leaked document covering these closures and it is up to 25% of stations in London which is unacceptable.
Hopefully you will never be trapped in your car or involved in a fire, but if you ever are and survive, you can go to Camberwick Green and say thanks to the Trumptons.
highway said:
2 day shifts 2 late shifts 2 nights then 4 days off. Can't imagine you do much on nights either if you don't get a call. In fact don't they let you sleep? Does that not effectively translate to 4 days on and effectively, often, 6 days off?
It is 3 days off, not 4 as we don't leave work until 9am on our last night shift. My last 2 nights at work, I had no sleep thanks. I work a 48 hour week over 5 days. How does this differ from the "norm"? We work under the EU working time directive which allows us to stand down when we work these hours as it would any other profession exempt from the directive. We get no shift allowance, we work 5 weekends out of 8, some partial i.e. finishing saturday/sunday morning. Christmas day, will you be at work? Bank holidays? New Years Day for time and a third? No chance! If you think it is that great, why don't you join.
What other ill informed information do you have about the fire service?
Edited by 97rsr on Monday 25th October 20:31
97rsr said:
What are you fearing?
25% cuts to your Fire Service if you live in London? I would be afraid too considering we are on the highest terrorist alert you can get and that is from your government, not us.
Or fear from having a fire or car accident? This is reality sometimes. Make sure your smoke alarm works and drive carefully is all I can say. Don't be scared. At the moment the UK has one of the best fire, police and ambulance service in the world and take the time to have a look to see how much they are cutting them all. Your taxes won't go down by these cuts, but all your services will suffer.
I fear the lady doth protest too much.25% cuts to your Fire Service if you live in London? I would be afraid too considering we are on the highest terrorist alert you can get and that is from your government, not us.
Or fear from having a fire or car accident? This is reality sometimes. Make sure your smoke alarm works and drive carefully is all I can say. Don't be scared. At the moment the UK has one of the best fire, police and ambulance service in the world and take the time to have a look to see how much they are cutting them all. Your taxes won't go down by these cuts, but all your services will suffer.
Edited by 97rsr on Monday 25th October 20:26
I suspect that terrorists wouldn't think that striking at 2am would be a good idea, when the targets are tucked up in bed.
Equally, given the lack of traffic at night and therefore the improved response times for longer distances, less than 100% station coverage seems to be still prudent.
The fact is, like everyone else from PE teachers to Army "procurement specialists", you seem to think you're immune to a bit of common sense...
97rsr said:
loafer123 said:
97rsr said:
What are you fearing?
25% cuts to your Fire Service if you live in London? I would be afraid too considering we are on the highest terrorist alert you can get and that is from your government, not us.
Or fear from having a fire or car accident? This is reality sometimes. Make sure your smoke alarm works and drive carefully is all I can say. Don't be scared. At the moment the UK has one of the best fire, police and ambulance service in the world and take the time to have a look to see how much they are cutting them all. Your taxes won't go down by these cuts, but all your services will suffer.
I fear the lady doth protest too much.25% cuts to your Fire Service if you live in London? I would be afraid too considering we are on the highest terrorist alert you can get and that is from your government, not us.
Or fear from having a fire or car accident? This is reality sometimes. Make sure your smoke alarm works and drive carefully is all I can say. Don't be scared. At the moment the UK has one of the best fire, police and ambulance service in the world and take the time to have a look to see how much they are cutting them all. Your taxes won't go down by these cuts, but all your services will suffer.
Edited by 97rsr on Monday 25th October 20:26
I suspect that terrorists wouldn't think that striking at 2am would be a good idea, when the targets are tucked up in bed.
Equally, given the lack of traffic at night and therefore the improved response times for longer distances, less than 100% station coverage seems to be still prudent.
The fact is, like everyone else from PE teachers to Army "procurement specialists", you seem to think you're immune to a bit of common sense...
http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/LatestIncidents.asp
Note here they did not state incidents which occurred during the 8 hour strike on Saturday.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-238...
Unfortunately you don't seem to like firemen? Did you not make the grade or is it something you would not be capable of doing.
Edited by 97rsr on Monday 25th October 20:41
What I don't like is people who block any type of change for the sake of it.
Emergency service workers should not be able to hold the public to ransom - which is what this amounts to.
I can't strike. I don't want to. I accept it. There are times when I'd like to be represented more strongly but I would never consider this.
I'm not going to lecture a firefighter on how much of a difference 25% cuts of night stations would amount to. I've seen the same arguments used by other emergency services when facing trimming back night time resourcing - the argument that whilst nights have less jobs, the jobs that do come in are usually the most resource intensive. I agree with this. What I can say is that if you're anything like us you'll take the bad situations and decision making and make it work - somehow. Not as well as you'd like - but well enough. You'll work around the situation and do the best you can - and it won't be as bad as you expect.
That's what we do. It puts us at risk, makes life more difficult and dangerous for us and the public but we muddle by. Not happily skipping along and holding hands about it, but I honestly believe that Brigade would be no different in this.
I can't strike. I don't want to. I accept it. There are times when I'd like to be represented more strongly but I would never consider this.
I'm not going to lecture a firefighter on how much of a difference 25% cuts of night stations would amount to. I've seen the same arguments used by other emergency services when facing trimming back night time resourcing - the argument that whilst nights have less jobs, the jobs that do come in are usually the most resource intensive. I agree with this. What I can say is that if you're anything like us you'll take the bad situations and decision making and make it work - somehow. Not as well as you'd like - but well enough. You'll work around the situation and do the best you can - and it won't be as bad as you expect.
That's what we do. It puts us at risk, makes life more difficult and dangerous for us and the public but we muddle by. Not happily skipping along and holding hands about it, but I honestly believe that Brigade would be no different in this.
Edited by tenohfive on Monday 25th October 20:50
For the sake of it? It's for the sake of YOU! the tax paying public. I am losing 30 hours of my pay next month for no gain other than to stop closures. The shift change is acceptable to us, but without the strings and cuts attached to it. That is what we are striking about.
What rank is your senior fireman friend? What is his view of it? You should ask him if you dont' know.
If you want to call me a lady, get down to Peckham Fire Station tomorrow day, or the next day, or the next 2 nights and say it to me there. Nothing worse than ill informed mouthy keyboard warriors.
What rank is your senior fireman friend? What is his view of it? You should ask him if you dont' know.
If you want to call me a lady, get down to Peckham Fire Station tomorrow day, or the next day, or the next 2 nights and say it to me there. Nothing worse than ill informed mouthy keyboard warriors.
tenohfive said:
Emergency service workers should not be able to hold the public to ransom - which is what this amounts to.
I can't strike. I don't want to. I accept it. There are times when I'd like to be represented more strongly but I would never consider this.
I'm not going to lecture a firefighter on how much of a difference 25% cuts of night stations would amount to. I've seen the same arguments used by other emergency services when facing trimming back night time resourcing - the argument that whilst nights have less jobs, the jobs that do come in are usually the most resource intensive. I agree with this. What I can say is that if you're anything like us you'll take the bad situations and decision making and make it work - somehow. Not as well as you'd like - but well enough. You'll work around the situation and do the best you can - and it won't be as bad as you expect.
That's what we do. It puts us at risk, makes life more difficult and dangerous for us and the public but we muddle by. Not happily skipping along and holding hands about it, but I honestly believe that Brigade would be no different in this.
Are you a policemen? You have a federation that carries a lot of clout. You don't need to strike if you are.I can't strike. I don't want to. I accept it. There are times when I'd like to be represented more strongly but I would never consider this.
I'm not going to lecture a firefighter on how much of a difference 25% cuts of night stations would amount to. I've seen the same arguments used by other emergency services when facing trimming back night time resourcing - the argument that whilst nights have less jobs, the jobs that do come in are usually the most resource intensive. I agree with this. What I can say is that if you're anything like us you'll take the bad situations and decision making and make it work - somehow. Not as well as you'd like - but well enough. You'll work around the situation and do the best you can - and it won't be as bad as you expect.
That's what we do. It puts us at risk, makes life more difficult and dangerous for us and the public but we muddle by. Not happily skipping along and holding hands about it, but I honestly believe that Brigade would be no different in this.
Edited by tenohfive on Monday 25th October 20:50
Not a fan of strikes within emergency services.
However. Treat people like anyone else in the private sector how can you complain when they act just like people in the private sector. Witholding labour to achieve an end.
Having said that I'd never strike.
Something the government know. So theyll use that to their advantage.
However. Treat people like anyone else in the private sector how can you complain when they act just like people in the private sector. Witholding labour to achieve an end.
Having said that I'd never strike.
Something the government know. So theyll use that to their advantage.
97rsr said:
tenohfive said:
Emergency service workers should not be able to hold the public to ransom - which is what this amounts to.
I can't strike. I don't want to. I accept it. There are times when I'd like to be represented more strongly but I would never consider this.
I'm not going to lecture a firefighter on how much of a difference 25% cuts of night stations would amount to. I've seen the same arguments used by other emergency services when facing trimming back night time resourcing - the argument that whilst nights have less jobs, the jobs that do come in are usually the most resource intensive. I agree with this. What I can say is that if you're anything like us you'll take the bad situations and decision making and make it work - somehow. Not as well as you'd like - but well enough. You'll work around the situation and do the best you can - and it won't be as bad as you expect.
That's what we do. It puts us at risk, makes life more difficult and dangerous for us and the public but we muddle by. Not happily skipping along and holding hands about it, but I honestly believe that Brigade would be no different in this.
Are you a policemen? You have a federation that carries a lot of clout. You don't need to strike if you are.I can't strike. I don't want to. I accept it. There are times when I'd like to be represented more strongly but I would never consider this.
I'm not going to lecture a firefighter on how much of a difference 25% cuts of night stations would amount to. I've seen the same arguments used by other emergency services when facing trimming back night time resourcing - the argument that whilst nights have less jobs, the jobs that do come in are usually the most resource intensive. I agree with this. What I can say is that if you're anything like us you'll take the bad situations and decision making and make it work - somehow. Not as well as you'd like - but well enough. You'll work around the situation and do the best you can - and it won't be as bad as you expect.
That's what we do. It puts us at risk, makes life more difficult and dangerous for us and the public but we muddle by. Not happily skipping along and holding hands about it, but I honestly believe that Brigade would be no different in this.
Edited by tenohfive on Monday 25th October 20:50
They are good for one thing. Funding legal cover for court or discipline.
As negotiators they lack any teeth and from what I hear any real talent
Firemen have a great rep with the public which they are IMHO in danger of losing if they go ahead with a strike on bonfire night. All this about striking to ensure that in the future stations aren't closed at night just doesn't wash. I can see why as a fireman you like a longer night duty. Equally I can see why your employers want greater value for money than they get at the minute. Paying people en masse to sleep in case something happens is a luxury London likely can't afford in the 21st century. I doubt firefighters will get what they want and this strike action is doomed to fail. Incidentally loads of my mates are in the police. They have their shifts changed all the time, often with a days notice. They seem to get on with it.
With such negative comments like these, you make wonder why I bother with 23 years service and 2 medals to my name.
You know what, the people I help this week I will not tar with the same brush or mouth that you use even if they do think like that.
One thing you non-emergency service people will never experience is the feeling and gratitude of someone coming to the station to say thank you for helping them during probably one of the worst times of their lives.
Now I am off to commute to London for my 5 day shift, so do your worst, you won't stop me being the professional that I am.
You know what, the people I help this week I will not tar with the same brush or mouth that you use even if they do think like that.
One thing you non-emergency service people will never experience is the feeling and gratitude of someone coming to the station to say thank you for helping them during probably one of the worst times of their lives.
Now I am off to commute to London for my 5 day shift, so do your worst, you won't stop me being the professional that I am.
Firemen have a great rep with the public which they are IMHO in danger of losing if they go ahead with a strike on bonfire night. All this about striking to ensure that in the future stations aren't closed at night just doesn't wash. I can see why as a fireman you like a longer night duty. Equally I can see why your employers want greater value for money than they get at the minute. Paying people en masse to sleep in case something happens is a luxury London likely can't afford in the 21st century. I doubt firefighters will get what they want and this strike action is doomed to fail. Incidentally loads of my mates are in the police. They have their shifts changed all the time, often with a days notice. They seem to get on with it.
Firemen have a great rep with the public which they are IMHO in danger of losing if they go ahead with a strike on bonfire night. All this about striking to ensure that in the future stations aren't closed at night just doesn't wash. I can see why as a fireman you like a longer night duty. Equally I can see why your employers want greater value for money than they get at the minute. Paying people en masse to sleep in case something happens is a luxury London likely can't afford in the 21st century. I doubt firefighters will get what they want and this strike action is doomed to fail. Incidentally loads of my mates are in the police. They have their shifts changed all the time, often with a days notice. They seem to get on with it.
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