Dispatches: In God's name...

[Blue Meanie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjp4A6jBWzo

4 Parts.

OK, I'm curious to gauge peoples opinions on the schools that are portrayed in this documentary, and the science lessens therein... Is this something that should be permitted, or is it something that should not be funded, or accepted as part of the education system?

[poo at Paul's]

Perhaps a summary to avoid an hour of watching a vid?


Wihtout looking at it, is it about Creationalism being taught?

[cymtriks]

I know several people who went to schools like this.

All are happy, two run their own businesses.

I also know several people who can cite examples of how their faith helped them in life.

Admittedly the "science" lessons are a bit odd, Christians really shouldn't be doing this anymore, there are perfectly reasonable and rational ways to avoid most of the issues regarded as conflicts in this area. Constant yelling "Creation!" "Dawkins!" at each other is entirely unconstructive.

Odd, yes. However, considering fundamentalists I know, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

[BeeRoad]

cymtriks said:

I know several people who went to schools like this.

All are happy, two run their own businesses.

I also know several people who can cite examples of how their faith helped them in life.

Admittedly the "science" lessons are a bit odd, Christians really shouldn't be doing this anymore, there are perfectly reasonable and rational ways to avoid most of the issues regarded as conflicts in this area. Constant yelling "Creation!" "Dawkins!" at each other is entirely unconstructive.

Odd, yes. However, considering fundamentalists I know, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

There's a huge difference between having faith and being taught you must have the faith of your teachers.

[s2art]

cymtriks said:

I know several people who went to schools like this.

All are happy, two run their own businesses.

I also know several people who can cite examples of how their faith helped them in life.

Admittedly the "science" lessons are a bit odd, Christians really shouldn't be doing this anymore, there are perfectly reasonable and rational ways to avoid most of the issues regarded as conflicts in this area. Constant yelling "Creation!" "Dawkins!" at each other is entirely unconstructive.

Odd, yes. However, considering fundamentalists I know, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

Depends. If only a few nutjobs believe in creationism then it has little effect. If a lot do it can damage scientific progress. Look at what happened to stem cell research in the US, its probably set back progress by a decade.

[Blue Meanie]

poo at Paul's said:

Perhaps a summary to avoid an hour of watching a vid?


Wihtout looking at it, is it about Creationalism being taught?

It is... Shows an evangelical school, (which is government approved, and ofsted examined) teaching as a science test questions like "God made the world in how many days", god created light on the day", and the earth is between 6000, and 10,000 years old. These people are not subject to the curriculum regulations that others are put under. Now, should they be allowed to replace the science part of class, and insert genesis, and still call it science? Should they be allowed to have whatever they want under the banner of science ans insert whichever pseudoscientific stuff they want?

[Bill Carr]

It's very interesting how "faith" schooling has developed and - seemingly - attitudes have become more polarised in the past decade or so. I went to a catholic secondary school from 92-96 (in England) and whilst we had to do compulsorary R.E. up to GCSE level and had to endure a mass once a term, the amount of overt religiosity was actually quite small. Great pains were made to emphasise the bible stories as being allegorical not literal, "proper" science was taught with no mention made of religion, etc.

What's changed?

[Blue Meanie]

Bill Carr said:

It's very interesting how "faith" schooling has developed and - seemingly - attitudes have become more polarised in the past decade or so. I went to a catholic secondary school from 92-96 (in England) and whilst we had to do compulsorary R.E. up to GCSE level and had to endure a mass once a term, the amount of overt religiosity was actually quite small. Great pains were made to emphasise the bible stories as being allegorical not literal, "proper" science was taught with no mention made of religion, etc.

What's changed?

I went to an RC school myself. It was never too religious. Even RE taught all the faiths to a degree, . However, I think these schools are something else. The curriculum they use is from evangelical sources in the United States. Whereas regular religious schools in the UK are schools with a little more emphasis on the religious aspect, these other schools seem to be Sunday school to the nth degree, with a little bit of education thrown in. For religion, childhood is very important, as it is a child's formative years. Children naturally believe what adults tell them, it is the quickest way to learn, and their logic side isn;t quite up to scratch. By exposing children to this level of 'wrong science' what damage will it do?

[Willie Dee]

cymtriks said:

I know several people who went to schools like this.

All are happy

Odd, yes. However, considering fundamentalists I know, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

I know several people who do heroin, all are happy and in perfectly good standing, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

Religious fundamentalism prevents science and freedom, it is inherently dangerous, because you know a few people who seem to be OK having been bought up under fundamentalist brainwashing does not mean an awful lot.

[ringram]

Brain death.

Who cares, more meat for the capitalist grinder. Generation of fresh vegetables with no clue to take advantage of.

[Jimbeaux]

Blue Meanie said:

poo at Paul's said:

Perhaps a summary to avoid an hour of watching a vid?


Wihtout looking at it, is it about Creationalism being taught?

It is... Shows an evangelical school, (which is government approved, and ofsted examined) teaching as a science test questions like "God made the world in how many days", god created light on the day", and the earth is between 6000, and 10,000 years old. These people are not subject to the curriculum regulations that others are put under. Now, should they be allowed to replace the science part of class, and insert genesis, and still call it science? Should they be allowed to have whatever they want under the banner of science ans insert whichever pseudoscientific stuff they want?

Show me where their curriculum states the Earth is between 6-10K years old. I dare you. The vast majority of religious schools in the U.S. are thriving because the quality of the basic education is far superior to that of the public versions with their PC policies and letting of students run amok free of discipline. It has very little to do with religion.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 28th October 17:01

[Jimbeaux]

Willie Dee said:

cymtriks said:

I know several people who went to schools like this.

All are happy

Odd, yes. However, considering fundamentalists I know, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

I know several people who do heroin, all are happy and in perfectly good standing, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

Religious fundamentalism prevents science and freedom, it is inherently dangerous, because you know a few people who seem to be OK having been bought up under fundamentalist brainwashing does not mean an awful lot.

So, heroin use is OK but religion is bad? Twisted.

[Willie Dee]

Jimbeaux said:

Willie Dee said:

cymtriks said:

I know several people who went to schools like this.

All are happy

Odd, yes. However, considering fundamentalists I know, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

I know several people who do heroin, all are happy and in perfectly good standing, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

Religious fundamentalism prevents science and freedom, it is inherently dangerous, because you know a few people who seem to be OK having been bought up under fundamentalist brainwashing does not mean an awful lot.

So, heroin use is OK but religion is bad? Twisted.

I too do not understand analogies.

[Blue Meanie]

Jimbeaux said:

Blue Meanie said:

poo at Paul's said:

Perhaps a summary to avoid an hour of watching a vid?


Wihtout looking at it, is it about Creationalism being taught?

It is... Shows an evangelical school, (which is government approved, and ofsted examined) teaching as a science test questions like "God made the world in how many days", god created light on the day", and the earth is between 6000, and 10,000 years old. These people are not subject to the curriculum regulations that others are put under. Now, should they be allowed to replace the science part of class, and insert genesis, and still call it science? Should they be allowed to have whatever they want under the banner of science ans insert whichever pseudoscientific stuff they want?

Show me where their curriculum states the Earth is between 6-10K years old. I dare you. The vast majority of religious schools in the U.S. are thriving because the quality of the basic education is far superior to that of the public versions with their PC policies and letting of students run amok free of discipline. It has very little to do with religion.

I take it you did not watch the documentary? Watch it, then get back to me. Watch episode one from about 5 minutes onwards. Dare indeed.



The SCIENCE test




The questions

Edited by Blue Meanie on Thursday 28th October 19:13

[Mr_B]

Religion knows you got to get to them kids early to brainwash them.
Have a look at Richard Dawkins recent show on faith schools in which they are free to teach as much RE as they like and without any restriction or inspection; the genius of Tony Blair and the Labour party on giving us state sponsored religious idiots direct from schools.

[cymtriks]

Willie Dee said:

Jimbeaux said:

Willie Dee said:

cymtriks said:

I know several people who went to schools like this.

All are happy

Odd, yes. However, considering fundamentalists I know, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

I know several people who do heroin, all are happy and in perfectly good standing, it doesn't seem to hinder them in day to day life.

Religious fundamentalism prevents science and freedom, it is inherently dangerous, because you know a few people who seem to be OK having been bought up under fundamentalist brainwashing does not mean an awful lot.

So, heroin use is OK but religion is bad? Twisted.

I too do not understand analogies.

The first sentence is a straw man.

The second is simply not true, many mainstream people are also uneasy about some of the things that religious types might object to. There is little evidence of religion preventing science, do you ever wonder why the same few examples get cited again and again and, in all cases, science won in the end? Remember that one of the main reasons that early science was opposed was not fundamentalism but genuine concerns about what the scientists were getting up to. If someone set up a laboratory to try to make gold and sell quack medicines while occasionally raiding the local cemetery for secret autopsies would you want them investigated or monitored?

Yes, some of them do appear to be a bit brainwashed but you could argue that we are manipulated and brainwashed over a great many issues besides faith.

[Blue Meanie]

But, as was the original question, do you think about the education these kids are getting in these schools, and is it harmless, or should there be strict definitions on what is science, and what is not?

[lambysdad]

I have a family member who is a Vicar, She and her hubby have 2 children who are naturally (for them),brainwashed taught the Christian beliefs.
Quite looking forward to when they get older as I can see a major rebellion coming their way, especially from the Daughter
On a side note, the Son once asked me if I had a copy of the ‘Good Book’, I reached up to the bookshelf and presented him with ‘Lord of the Rings’. Best one I’ve got I told him.

[Lost_BMW]

Blue Meanie said:

Jimbeaux said:

Blue Meanie said:

poo at Paul's said:

Perhaps a summary to avoid an hour of watching a vid?


Wihtout looking at it, is it about Creationalism being taught?

It is... Shows an evangelical school, (which is government approved, and ofsted examined) teaching as a science test questions like "God made the world in how many days", god created light on the day", and the earth is between 6000, and 10,000 years old. These people are not subject to the curriculum regulations that others are put under. Now, should they be allowed to replace the science part of class, and insert genesis, and still call it science? Should they be allowed to have whatever they want under the banner of science ans insert whichever pseudoscientific stuff they want?

Show me where their curriculum states the Earth is between 6-10K years old. I dare you. The vast majority of religious schools in the U.S. are thriving because the quality of the basic education is far superior to that of the public versions with their PC policies and letting of students run amok free of discipline. It has very little to do with religion.

I take it you did not watch the documentary? Watch it, then get back to me. Watch episode one from about 5 minutes onwards. Dare indeed.



The SCIENCE test




The questions

Edited by Blue Meanie on Thursday 28th October 19:13

Rug pulled and round one to the meanie it appears!

I hope Jimbeaux isn't in favour of creationism?

[Blue Meanie]

It's not the first time he has scoffed at the suggestion that the notion of a young earth is gaining in popularity.