Compulsory National Service

[crankedup]

Reading some threads on here it seems that 'the young' people seem to have lost their way in life. Lack of discipline, low work ethic, lack of respect in general and other problems. Of course not all youths are this way. Why is it that National Service has not been reintroduced in the U.K. Would have thought that would 'assist' the lost ones?

[HundredthIdiot]

Perhaps our armed forces have better things to be doing than babysitting chavs.

[V88Dicky]

I don't think our Armed Forces have the spare capacity (like they may have had in the 50's) to re-introduce NS.

Anyway, wouldn't it be against their 'human rights'?

[ShadownINja]

You want to teach them how to fight??

Serious hat on, I think it could work. They need some guidance. They have little motivation, discipline or sense of morals.

Edited by ShadownINja on Thursday 11th November 14:24

[crankedup]

HundredthIdiot said:

Perhaps our armed forces have better things to be doing than babysitting chavs.

Thought they would relish the challenge, and by sounds of things it would be a challenge. But why have the successive Governments veered away from such a policy.

[AshVX220]

If I were in the st getting shot at the last thing I'd want is some kid that doesn't want to be here watching my back.

It could be made to work so long as they didn't do frontline stuff. Get them to clean the barracks or something. But, as mentioned, that'd be against their ooman rights...innit.

[Lucas CAV]

crankedup said:

HundredthIdiot said:

Perhaps our armed forces have better things to be doing than babysitting chavs.

Thought they would relish the challenge, and by sounds of things it would be a challenge. But why have the successive Governments veered away from such a policy.

It was a total waste of time in the 1950's when my father did it - 2 years spent peeling spuds in Germany did not not teach him much.

[ellroy]

As someone who did serve in recent times I can confirm that we don't want NS as it was previously, for the reasons already put forward amongst others.

There is though no reason why a form of NS could not be introduced that did not end up with the forces looking after the lazy gits.

[MX7]

I think we could benefit from it, but not necessarily in the military. A year of community service might give some the guidance that they need.

[ShadownINja]

Lucas CAV said:

It was a total waste of time in the 1950's when my father did it - 2 years spent peeling spuds in Germany did not not teach him much.

He might not have learnt much but did his behaviour change or improve?

[Lucas CAV]

ShadownINja said:

Lucas CAV said:

It was a total waste of time in the 1950's when my father did it - 2 years spent peeling spuds in Germany did not not teach him much.

He might not have learnt much but did his behaviour change or improve?

Should it have?

[russ_a]

Why does the Armed Forces have to be involved?

[HundredthIdiot]

I expect that National Service was once deemed to be a defensively useful.

It isn't now, partly because warfare is much less manpower-intensive and more training and equipment-intensive than previously.

It's a bit like turning up at Bletchley Park in 1940 with a bunch of innumerate secondary school dropouts and asking the eggheads to get them doing something useful. They'd just get in the way.

[mph1977]

HundredthIdiot said:

I expect that National Service was once deemed to be a defensively useful.

when the doctrine of war was war between national states played out across France and up and onto the North German plain, with the option of bomber relased buckets of instant sunshine

[quote]
It isn't now, partly because warfare is much less manpower-intensive and more training and equipment-intensive than previously.

It's a bit like turning up at Bletchley Park in 1940 with a bunch of innumerate secondary school dropouts and asking the eggheads to get them doing something useful. They'd just get in the way.

there's not much call for cannon fodder in the modern armed forces

it's interesting to note that in the countries who still operate national service the duration is little more than the time it takes to do phase 1 and a short phase 2 training and alternatives are available i.e. Germany 'alternative' service or sign up for retained fire service / ambulance / THW for 6 years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Germa...

[grumbledoak]

It works very well in Switzerland, but that's a very different country/mindset.

Here it would just be babysitting the chavs, at least at first, and the Forces have other things to do. Babysitting the useless is called school.

As for 'defence', just no. Volunteers make far better soldiers than conscripts.

[Dracoro]

crankedup said:

Reading some threads on here it seems that 'the young' people seem to have lost their way in life. Lack of discipline, low work ethic, lack of respect in general and other problems.

To semi-quote YM, if I were to ask you your stance on National Service I could ask the following if I wanted to to agree with it
"Are you worried about the number of young people without jobs?"
You: "Yes"
"Are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?"
You: "Yes"
"Do you think there is a lack of discipline in our Comprehensive schools?"
You: "Yes"
"Do you think young people welcome some authority and leadership in their lives?"
You: "Yes"
"Do you think they respond to a challenge?"
you: "Yes"
"Would you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?"
You: "Oh...well, I suppose I might be."
"Yes or no?"
You: "Yes"

If I were to ask you your stance on National Service I could ask the following if I wanted to to DISagree with it

"Are you worried about the danger of war?"
You: "Yes"
"Are you worried about the growth of armaments?"
You: "Yes"
"Do you think there is a danger in giving young people guns and teaching them how to kill?"
You: "Yes"
"Do you think it is wrong to force people to take up arms against their will?"
You: "Yes"
"Would you oppose the reintroduction of National Service?"
You: "Yes"

Personally, I think enforced NS is ridiculous. By all means, make it an attractive proposition - helps job prospects, better paid than the dole etc. At a stretch, you could make it compulsory for people that "refuse" to work but the govt are scrapping benefits for these types anyway.

[ShadownINja]

Lucas CAV said:

ShadownINja said:

Lucas CAV said:

It was a total waste of time in the 1950's when my father did it - 2 years spent peeling spuds in Germany did not not teach him much.

He might not have learnt much but did his behaviour change or improve?

Should it have?

Should? Did? You are reading the thread, right? We want to know if it instils discipline etc.

[Marf]

crankedup said:

HundredthIdiot said:

Perhaps our armed forces have better things to be doing than babysitting chavs.

Thought they would relish the challenge, and by sounds of things it would be a challenge. But why have the successive Governments veered away from such a policy.

Because army top brass are intelligent enough to realise the idea of allowing these social retards into the army would seriously dilute their ability.

[BoRED S2upid]

I would have thought reintroducing NS and sending them to Iraq, Afgan or whereever we need them the most at present wouldn't work for a number of reasons however a few months training boot camp or whatever can't be a bad idea, might instill some respect for authority, give them some perspective in life, take them out of their comfort zone.

[crankedup]

Interesting comments, sometimes we have to go back to move forward, as a long term proposal I would like to see a Government come forward with a policy such as National Service, seems to me that it would be far more beneficial than a few weeks litter picking which will be resented by most participants?