Solar Power Plant

[Colonial]

Bare with me on this.

a large-ish solar plant is going to be constructed outside of Nyngan, which is a small town in central NSW. Basically, last town before nothing.

http://www.nynganobserver.com.au/news/local/news/g...

Just wondering what the general consensus on this was? Given it is hardly prime land and cannot really be used for anything else, except as very poor quality grazing land, it strikes me as a pretty sensible use of land.

[Zad]

The use of vast areas of cheap low grade land relatively close to the equator is surely going to become quite common. Probably using steam generation to power turbines rather than photovoltaics. Alternatively, using biological trickery to bond carbon from CO2 to make molecules that can then be further combined to make heavier molecules. An ideal source of $$$ for equatorial countries that can actually get their act together and not be permanently at war.

[odyssey2200]

IDGARA as long as I don't end up funding it

[Colonial]

odyssey2200 said:

IDGARA as long as I don't end up funding it

Considering we use mainly coal, rather than Nuclear, I don't have an issue with my money funding some of it.

[tamore]

why don't they use a solex agitator. i saw a documentary from the 70s which used one.

silliness aside, anyone know about the dooberyflop that was shown by james may on one of his progs which made petrol from thin air using the sun?

[mackie1]

Some boffins have also recently made panels that are vastly more efficient than photovoltaic cells at converting sun light into electricity.

[s3fella]

Genunie question, how green is the maufacture and set up then disposal of the panels used in things like this? I can see there is a benefit on a local scale of things liek this, ie makes clean energy in the locality, but if there is a price to pay (environmentally) elsewhere, either during manufacture and or disposal, will it be a net help to the environment on a global scale?

[tinman0]

Zad said:

The use of vast areas of cheap low grade land relatively close to the equator is surely going to become quite common. Probably using steam generation to power turbines rather than photovoltaics. Alternatively, using biological trickery to bond carbon from CO2 to make molecules that can then be further combined to make heavier molecules. An ideal source of $$$ for equatorial countries that can actually get their act together and not be permanently at war.

If the National Grid loses 40% of the power in the UK in the grid itself, can you imagine the losses from Saharan solar farms to Spain for instance? Let alone the UK.

[tamore]

tinman0 said:

Zad said:

The use of vast areas of cheap low grade land relatively close to the equator is surely going to become quite common. Probably using steam generation to power turbines rather than photovoltaics. Alternatively, using biological trickery to bond carbon from CO2 to make molecules that can then be further combined to make heavier molecules. An ideal source of $$$ for equatorial countries that can actually get their act together and not be permanently at war.

If the National Grid loses 40% of the power in the UK in the grid itself, can you imagine the losses from Saharan solar farms to Spain for instance? Let alone the UK.

being clueless about this kind of stuff, but interested in it, i wondered if the solution to this would be to crack water to make hydrogen at source and ship that around. using the mirrors/ steam turbine route is pretty clean and cheap too (i think)

pros, endless fuel, loads of O2 as byproduct.

cons, hydrogen is 'kin dangerous, it's a lowish density fuel, still got to transport it about somehow.

[singlecoil]

tinman0 said:

Zad said:

The use of vast areas of cheap low grade land relatively close to the equator is surely going to become quite common. Probably using steam generation to power turbines rather than photovoltaics. Alternatively, using biological trickery to bond carbon from CO2 to make molecules that can then be further combined to make heavier molecules. An ideal source of $$$ for equatorial countries that can actually get their act together and not be permanently at war.

If the National Grid loses 40% of the power in the UK in the grid itself, can you imagine the losses from Saharan solar farms to Spain for instance? Let alone the UK.

Thing is, the Natioanl Grid is a wide spread network at an array of different voltages. To transport power along a trunk route the thing to do is to get the voltage really high, then less power loss, proportionately. Still if the power is cheap enough, then a loss won't matter too much either.

[Zad]

tinman0 said:

Zad said:

The use of vast areas of cheap low grade land relatively close to the equator is surely going to become quite common. Probably using steam generation to power turbines rather than photovoltaics. Alternatively, using biological trickery to bond carbon from CO2 to make molecules that can then be further combined to make heavier molecules. An ideal source of $$$ for equatorial countries that can actually get their act together and not be permanently at war.

If the National Grid loses 40% of the power in the UK in the grid itself, can you imagine the losses from Saharan solar farms to Spain for instance? Let alone the UK.

Did you read beyond the first two sentences? Maybe I was being a bit too subtle, but you basically use the power to synthesise hydrocarbon molecules. These use things called tankers which have a loss of quite a lot below 40%.

[s2art]

Zad said:

tinman0 said:

Zad said:

The use of vast areas of cheap low grade land relatively close to the equator is surely going to become quite common. Probably using steam generation to power turbines rather than photovoltaics. Alternatively, using biological trickery to bond carbon from CO2 to make molecules that can then be further combined to make heavier molecules. An ideal source of $$$ for equatorial countries that can actually get their act together and not be permanently at war.

If the National Grid loses 40% of the power in the UK in the grid itself, can you imagine the losses from Saharan solar farms to Spain for instance? Let alone the UK.

Did you read beyond the first two sentences? Maybe I was being a bit too subtle, but you basically use the power to synthesise hydrocarbon molecules. These use things called tankers which have a loss of quite a lot below 40%.

And the cost & efficiency of synthesising said molecules is........

[tinman0]

Zad said:

tinman0 said:

Zad said:

The use of vast areas of cheap low grade land relatively close to the equator is surely going to become quite common. Probably using steam generation to power turbines rather than photovoltaics. Alternatively, using biological trickery to bond carbon from CO2 to make molecules that can then be further combined to make heavier molecules. An ideal source of $$$ for equatorial countries that can actually get their act together and not be permanently at war.

If the National Grid loses 40% of the power in the UK in the grid itself, can you imagine the losses from Saharan solar farms to Spain for instance? Let alone the UK.

Did you read beyond the first two sentences? Maybe I was being a bit too subtle, but you basically use the power to synthesise hydrocarbon molecules. These use things called tankers which have a loss of quite a lot below 40%.

The use of the word "Alternatively" threw me off. Totally agree about using steam and turbines and converting into hydrogen (or whatever it is). Somewhat distracted today.

[MX7]

I think it's shame that they didn't copy the Spanish one. Also, I'd have thought that putting it in Queensland/NT would give it more sun?

odyssey2200 said:

IDGARA as long as I don't end up funding it

Why would you end up paying for an Australian power station?

[odyssey2200]

MX7 said:

I think it's shame that they didn't copy the Spanish one. Also, I'd have thought that putting it in Queensland/NT would give it more sun?

odyssey2200 said:

IDGARA as long as I don't end up funding it

Why would you end up paying for an Australian power station?

Some Eco-tt somewhere will find a way.

[Zad]

It depends what you mean by losses, there are both generation losses and transmission losses in all power systems. In the case of hydrocarbons, the transmission losses would purely be the fuel used by the tanker in transporting it to its destination. Generation efficiency for photovoltaics is around 25% and the hardware cost per watt is huge, as is the amount of power needed to fabricate the cells. With thermal troughs, the collecting efficiency is over 90%. Beyond that, it will be similar to any other steam based power station, minus that involved in whatever synthesis process is used. However, the cost of the reflective troughs is cheaper by an order of magnitude (and more).

The real key is direct biological synthesis of hydrocarbons using solar power. This is in the vary early stage compared to conventional power generation but, as it has fewer processing losses, has much more potential.

e.g. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl803258p?prev...

[crofty1984]

I once worked on a solar project. A load of large mirrors capable of being moved independantly all focussed on a boiler housed in a central tower, then the steam generated turned a turbine-generator.

[Shuvi Tupya]

MX7 said:

I think it's shame that they didn't copy the Spanish one. Also, I'd have thought that putting it in Queensland/NT would give it more sun?

Didn't i read somewhere that the big solar collector in spain had been switched off?

[MX7]

Shuvi Tupya said:

MX7 said:

I think it's shame that they didn't copy the Spanish one. Also, I'd have thought that putting it in Queensland/NT would give it more sun?

Didn't i read somewhere that the big solar collector in spain had been switched off?

Probably Hedders.

[zollburgers]

tinman0 said:

Zad said:

The use of vast areas of cheap low grade land relatively close to the equator is surely going to become quite common. Probably using steam generation to power turbines rather than photovoltaics. Alternatively, using biological trickery to bond carbon from CO2 to make molecules that can then be further combined to make heavier molecules. An ideal source of $$$ for equatorial countries that can actually get their act together and not be permanently at war.

If the National Grid loses 40% of the power in the UK in the grid itself, can you imagine the losses from Saharan solar farms to Spain for instance? Let alone the UK.

I read that they were going to use DC for super long range high voltage connections, which would reduce transmission losses? But I read this, I have no idea if it's practical or not.