Discussion
This should have gone through a while ago and very nearly did. Bloody religious nutters blocked it despite the overwhelming support by the medical profession.
Why the hell should some idiot, who hasn't grown up enough to stop believing in imaginary friends, be able to dictate whether I'm allowed to die when I want to, where I want to, with the level of dignity I choose. This should not be a religious issue.
OP sorry to hear about your father.
Why the hell should some idiot, who hasn't grown up enough to stop believing in imaginary friends, be able to dictate whether I'm allowed to die when I want to, where I want to, with the level of dignity I choose. This should not be a religious issue.
OP sorry to hear about your father.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
How come you're not sure now?What is it people say about putting animals down; "It's cruel to keep them alive and suffering"
I've had to put my cat down this week. She had kidney failure, was not eating, and the only way to keep her alive would be to force feed her nutrients via IV.
So can someone tell me why we think that it is OK to put an animal out of it's suffering....but it's criminal to put a human out of their suffering? Especially when, unlike with animals, a human can communicate and tell us it's their choice!
ETA: Sorry to hear about your old man OP.
Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Tuesday 23 November 15:30
thinfourth2 said:
I think anyone should be able to go to their doctor at anytime and be allowed to checkout. It would reduce the amount of jumpers infront of trains
You really haven't thought that through have you?Why should the doctor be obliged to kill his/her patients upon request yet you don't feel the train driver should ahve to go through it?
The doctor knows perfectly well that lots of idiots and sick people say they want to die at the drop of the hat when it's not in their interests and/or, perhaps more importantly, the interests of all the other family members who will be affected.
"Where's Daddy gone?"
"Don't worry dear, he was feeling a bit low so popped down the doctor's and had himself put down. He's gone for ever and we have no income to live on but you'll soon get over it...."
Sorry to hear your bad news OP.
Without wishing to denigrate the comments from those who haven't, I think it's fair to say that only when you've experienced something similar, can you begin to understand what a complex question it is. A few more days/weeks/months of life vs enduring pain and sadness.
It's bad enough with a pet, but with a grandparent, parent or perhaps worse, a child or a baby, how do you know what you'd feel?
Anyway, I think there's no easy answer, from a legal, religious or practical point of view. I think it will become more of a problem as more of us live longer, 'preserved' in nursing homes for maximum profit. Sometimes, medical progress isn't as beneficial as we might imagine. I think the medical profession know when enough is enough, but who decides?
Without wishing to denigrate the comments from those who haven't, I think it's fair to say that only when you've experienced something similar, can you begin to understand what a complex question it is. A few more days/weeks/months of life vs enduring pain and sadness.
It's bad enough with a pet, but with a grandparent, parent or perhaps worse, a child or a baby, how do you know what you'd feel?
Anyway, I think there's no easy answer, from a legal, religious or practical point of view. I think it will become more of a problem as more of us live longer, 'preserved' in nursing homes for maximum profit. Sometimes, medical progress isn't as beneficial as we might imagine. I think the medical profession know when enough is enough, but who decides?
Maybe if husbands and wives made it their business to cheer each other up, then that would not happen.
sure, i can see a guy going and checking out because his wife makes his life a misery and his insurance won't pay out if he chooses to die..
sure, i can see a guy going and checking out because his wife makes his life a misery and his insurance won't pay out if he chooses to die..
Edited by Shuvi Tupya on Tuesday 23 November 17:09
Isaac, sorry to hear about your Dad. You are in a position that the great majority of us will all experience one day.
The question however, is that it is not YOU who decides, but your Father. And if your father is enjoying his life, then just enjoy your time with him, and talk about it, because the time may come when he is not enjoying his life, and may not be able to communicate his wishes to you.
I for one, know that my Dad would hate it if it came to the stage where someone had to wipe his arse and hold his c0ck and he could'nt do anything about it. Before it got that far I'd be the first one to jab in that insulin, and I know he'd love me for it (and the same applies to me when it hapens)
In the meantime, enjoy your time with your Dad, and let him know you love him - we tend not to tell our fathers that throughout our life.
The question however, is that it is not YOU who decides, but your Father. And if your father is enjoying his life, then just enjoy your time with him, and talk about it, because the time may come when he is not enjoying his life, and may not be able to communicate his wishes to you.
I for one, know that my Dad would hate it if it came to the stage where someone had to wipe his arse and hold his c0ck and he could'nt do anything about it. Before it got that far I'd be the first one to jab in that insulin, and I know he'd love me for it (and the same applies to me when it hapens)
In the meantime, enjoy your time with your Dad, and let him know you love him - we tend not to tell our fathers that throughout our life.
Edited by JensenA on Tuesday 23 November 19:20
There's a world of difference between a sick person's decision to end their own life in an act of suicide, with or without a loved one's assistance, and the concept of euthanasia in which the final decision is taken by a third party on the grounds of ending suffering. Unless the subject is compos mentis at the time, it is always going to be questionable.
Ozzie Osmond said:
thinfourth2 said:
I think anyone should be able to go to their doctor at anytime and be allowed to checkout. It would reduce the amount of jumpers infront of trains
You really haven't thought that through have you?Why should the doctor be obliged to kill his/her patients upon request yet you don't feel the train driver should ahve to go through it?
The doctor knows perfectly well that lots of idiots and sick people say they want to die at the drop of the hat when it's not in their interests and/or, perhaps more importantly, the interests of all the other family members who will be affected.
"Where's Daddy gone?"
"Don't worry dear, he was feeling a bit low so popped down the doctor's and had himself put down. He's gone for ever and we have no income to live on but you'll soon get over it...."
I'm very pro the idea of assisted suicide, this has been for some time as my Mother held that belief for all of her life and as such influenced me, and indeed she wished it was allowed when her time came.
She was in a lot of pain from a number of cancers and knew that her only hope was painlessness through morphine, I'm not sure she achieved it through morphine as she spent her last two weeks unconscious and she certainly didn't achieve it then, but I'm fairly certain she did through death.
Thing is she was also quite religious and her catholic faith gave her a lot of comfort through a lot of her life and especially towards the end, but despite the teachings of her church she still held this view.
She was in a lot of pain from a number of cancers and knew that her only hope was painlessness through morphine, I'm not sure she achieved it through morphine as she spent her last two weeks unconscious and she certainly didn't achieve it then, but I'm fairly certain she did through death.
Thing is she was also quite religious and her catholic faith gave her a lot of comfort through a lot of her life and especially towards the end, but despite the teachings of her church she still held this view.
Conian said:
Sorry for yuor news OP... I know your pain.
Yep - same here mate - cancer is a f
ker isn't it.My Dad's going through the wringer right now with Stage 4 Kidney Cancer. His calcium levels went sky high so he was disorientated, nauseous, asleep - so when he arrived at The Royal Marsden for his chemo, he basically wasn't well enough to have it and they spent 4 days getting it corrected. He then picked up a Bladder infection which has delayed his chemo by another week.
Its full-on at the moment, worse though for me personally is the distance involved...going to see them is not a matter of just jumping in the car..
As to the whole right to die question - its tough to know the right thing to do. Ultimately you want to spend as much time as possible with them, but in the back of your mind - if they were suffering and pain meds were unable to help/assist - would you want to see them go through that ? I know I wouldn't...I think at that point then it becomes more desirable to ease their passing rather than the wish to have them around and suffering.
Ozzie Osmond said:
"Don't worry dear, he was feeling a bit low so popped down the doctor's and had himself put down. He's gone for ever and we have no income to live on but you'll soon get over it...."
Don't be silly. There would be, and would need to be, sufficient safeguards put in place. The issue however is whether or not an individual has the RIGHT to choose whether they live or die.
I am 100% sure that if I get a terminal condition which will result in a prolonged period of pain and suffering, I know I'd rather exit stage left before it gets to that point.
Sorry to hear of your Fathers illness.
I strongly approve of euthanasia which allows the terminally ill the choice of when they wish to end their life. However, I do not subscribe to the 'end the suffering' of the patient reasoning, with the correct use of modern drugs suffering in a physical sense leading up to death should be a thing of the past. It is the dignity of the patient that should be focused upon in my view coupled with the basic concept of 'my own decision' taken in the company of a legal representative and a psychologist perhaps to authenticate 'soundness of mind'and no duress. Certainly some safe guards required anyway. I hope that Law may be passed to allow those that wish to have the ending to their life that the terminally ill person prefers.
I strongly approve of euthanasia which allows the terminally ill the choice of when they wish to end their life. However, I do not subscribe to the 'end the suffering' of the patient reasoning, with the correct use of modern drugs suffering in a physical sense leading up to death should be a thing of the past. It is the dignity of the patient that should be focused upon in my view coupled with the basic concept of 'my own decision' taken in the company of a legal representative and a psychologist perhaps to authenticate 'soundness of mind'and no duress. Certainly some safe guards required anyway. I hope that Law may be passed to allow those that wish to have the ending to their life that the terminally ill person prefers.
I work in a hospice and see people all day and every day who are suffering from various cancers.
All within their last year of life.
Some are perky and happy right up to the end.
Some are so bad that it would be a mercy to let them go.
Each case on its merits. But when you get to a point where there is a couple of weeks left with no hope of remission and only heavy morphine semi comatose states to keep away the pain, then really, let them choose the option to go.
All within their last year of life.
Some are perky and happy right up to the end.
Some are so bad that it would be a mercy to let them go.
Each case on its merits. But when you get to a point where there is a couple of weeks left with no hope of remission and only heavy morphine semi comatose states to keep away the pain, then really, let them choose the option to go.
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