Court order for house sale - Help!
Discussion
I’m posting on here in the hope that any legal PH’ers can advise me on the following matter.
About 6 years ago I got made redundant and got into arrears with several credit cards.
With the exception of one I’m now paying back my creditors on a monthly basis.
The other credit card debt was eventually sold to a debt collection agency who last year obtained a charging order against my house. I appealed against his decision and lost on the grounds that I waited too long before making an appeal (my current work keeps me overseas for months on end so it’s difficult to try and sort things out. I currently owe about £14k. Up to now I haven’t made any payments against this debt because I was out of work for a long time and any money I did manage to save has been spent on healthcare for my Father who was dying of cancer and most recently his funeral costs.
The debt collection agency got impatient for their money and was recently granted a court order to force me to sell my house, which kicks off early next month. My appeal against this decision was refused on the grounds I had no new evidence since my last appeal. If the house is sold soon, once the mortgage is paid off there will be practically nothing left as there’s no equity in the house at the moment (this was pointed out to the court but seemed to fall on deaf ears). I have recently written to the creditor several times asking them what they will consider a realistic and fair offer in full and final settlement of this debt but have had no reply. I have no other assets.
The last thing I want to happen is to lose the house as I have nowhere else to go and this was supposed to be an investment for my pension.
Is there anyone who can provide advice on if it’s still possible to get this decision reversed and if so how?
Many thanks in advance.
About 6 years ago I got made redundant and got into arrears with several credit cards.
With the exception of one I’m now paying back my creditors on a monthly basis.
The other credit card debt was eventually sold to a debt collection agency who last year obtained a charging order against my house. I appealed against his decision and lost on the grounds that I waited too long before making an appeal (my current work keeps me overseas for months on end so it’s difficult to try and sort things out. I currently owe about £14k. Up to now I haven’t made any payments against this debt because I was out of work for a long time and any money I did manage to save has been spent on healthcare for my Father who was dying of cancer and most recently his funeral costs.
The debt collection agency got impatient for their money and was recently granted a court order to force me to sell my house, which kicks off early next month. My appeal against this decision was refused on the grounds I had no new evidence since my last appeal. If the house is sold soon, once the mortgage is paid off there will be practically nothing left as there’s no equity in the house at the moment (this was pointed out to the court but seemed to fall on deaf ears). I have recently written to the creditor several times asking them what they will consider a realistic and fair offer in full and final settlement of this debt but have had no reply. I have no other assets.
The last thing I want to happen is to lose the house as I have nowhere else to go and this was supposed to be an investment for my pension.
Is there anyone who can provide advice on if it’s still possible to get this decision reversed and if so how?
Many thanks in advance.
davepoth said:
If you can afford it now, remortgage the house and pay the creditor off in full, now. It's likely to be the only way you can save your home.
He said he has no equity in the property.To the OP, seek proper legal advise ASAP. The problem is that they have a court order or the full amount, so why will they accept less?
Can you not get a loan?
Sarnie said:
He said he has no equity in the property.
To the OP, seek proper legal advise ASAP. The problem is that they have a court order or the full amount, so why will they accept less?
Can you not get a loan?
Many thanks to both of the replies so far.To the OP, seek proper legal advise ASAP. The problem is that they have a court order or the full amount, so why will they accept less?
Can you not get a loan?
With my credit history the way it is I stand no chance of getting a loan or being able to remortgage the house.
There is no equity in the house so even if it is sold the creditor will not get paid in full. This was explained to the judge during my appeal but it still went against me, it doesn't make sense.
I have managed to save up an amount which through negotiation with the creditor I am hoping to get accepted as a full and final payment of this debt. The creditor hasn't yet responded to my request as to what they consider a realistic and fair offer. Surely if they are that desperate for the money it's better for them to have something now instead of nothing?
Anon1234 said:
Many thanks to both of the replies so far.
With my credit history the way it is I stand no chance of getting a loan or being able to remortgage the house.
There is no equity in the house so even if it is sold the creditor will not get paid in full. This was explained to the judge during my appeal but it still went against me, it doesn't make sense.
I have managed to save up an amount which through negotiation with the creditor I am hoping to get accepted as a full and final payment of this debt. The creditor hasn't yet responded to my request as to what they consider a realistic and fair offer. Surely if they are that desperate for the money it's better for them to have something now instead of nothing?
To be honest, it sounds like they think they will get all of their money back, hence why they have pushed this through.With my credit history the way it is I stand no chance of getting a loan or being able to remortgage the house.
There is no equity in the house so even if it is sold the creditor will not get paid in full. This was explained to the judge during my appeal but it still went against me, it doesn't make sense.
I have managed to save up an amount which through negotiation with the creditor I am hoping to get accepted as a full and final payment of this debt. The creditor hasn't yet responded to my request as to what they consider a realistic and fair offer. Surely if they are that desperate for the money it's better for them to have something now instead of nothing?
Send them a recorded letter so you have proof they have recieved it, then phone them and demand to speak to someone. Ultimately, no company wants to see you on the streets, they just want their money back.
What is the difference between what you have saved and the amount they are seeking?
Sarnie said:
To be honest, it sounds like they think they will get all of their money back, hence why they have pushed this through.
Send them a recorded letter so you have proof they have recieved it, then phone them and demand to speak to someone. Ultimately, no company wants to see you on the streets, they just want their money back.
What is the difference between what you have saved and the amount they are seeking?
I have £4k saved.Send them a recorded letter so you have proof they have recieved it, then phone them and demand to speak to someone. Ultimately, no company wants to see you on the streets, they just want their money back.
What is the difference between what you have saved and the amount they are seeking?
When the creditor originaly purchased the debt it was £10k (bearing in mind I've been reliably informed they will have only paid 10p in the £ for it), now with all of their additional fees and interest charges the current balance is about £14.5k
Also the creditor cannot produce a signed credit agreement and the credit card company kept raising the card limit without my authorisation or me signing anything. Is there anything I can now do to challenge the debt itself?
Anon1234 said:
I have £4k saved.
When the creditor originaly purchased the debt it was £10k (bearing in mind I've been reliably informed they will have only paid 10p in the £ for it), now with all of their additional fees and interest charges the current balance is about £14.5k
Also the creditor cannot produce a signed credit agreement and the credit card company kept raising the card limit without my authorisation or me signing anything. Is there anything I can now do to challenge the debt itself?
In answer to the last part of your question, yes there is, the agency have to justify their additional charges to some extent. Also without a signed credit agreement I would think they are on difficult ground, however they must have something fairly substantial if they already managed to persuade a court to sell your home to repay the debt. When the creditor originaly purchased the debt it was £10k (bearing in mind I've been reliably informed they will have only paid 10p in the £ for it), now with all of their additional fees and interest charges the current balance is about £14.5k
Also the creditor cannot produce a signed credit agreement and the credit card company kept raising the card limit without my authorisation or me signing anything. Is there anything I can now do to challenge the debt itself?
You won't get the right advice on here, CAB urgently. Don't put it off any longer.
Anon1234 said:
Sarnie said:
To be honest, it sounds like they think they will get all of their money back, hence why they have pushed this through.
Send them a recorded letter so you have proof they have recieved it, then phone them and demand to speak to someone. Ultimately, no company wants to see you on the streets, they just want their money back.
What is the difference between what you have saved and the amount they are seeking?
I have £4k saved.Send them a recorded letter so you have proof they have recieved it, then phone them and demand to speak to someone. Ultimately, no company wants to see you on the streets, they just want their money back.
What is the difference between what you have saved and the amount they are seeking?
When the creditor originaly purchased the debt it was £10k (bearing in mind I've been reliably informed they will have only paid 10p in the £ for it), now with all of their additional fees and interest charges the current balance is about £14.5k
Also the creditor cannot produce a signed credit agreement and the credit card company kept raising the card limit without my authorisation or me signing anything. Is there anything I can now do to challenge the debt itself?
BarnatosGhost said:
I did read something a while ago about creditors who can't produce original agreements being in a somewhat sticky position when it gets to court. I'd explore that. I think there's a charity call-centre in Birmingham who provide advice about this sort of stuff.
AFAIK the courts decided that a reconstitued agreement was sufficient, as the money had been passed to the debtor. MarsellusWallace said:
If you have a mortgage then surely the mortgage company have 1st charge on the house and a sale cannot be forced without their consent??
Good point.AFAIK the motgage company hasn't been approached and so wont have given their consent.
So where do I stand on this?
CAB can be a little difficult to get hold of sometimes, so maybe use this as well to see what advice they offer http://www.debtadvicefoundation.org/
Jackleman said:
CAB can be a little difficult to get hold of sometimes, so maybe use this as well to see what advice they offer http://www.debtadvicefoundation.org/
I'll give them a call - thanks.CCCS ASAP!
Over the telephone, a helpline advisor will perform an immediate assessment of the situation ending in emergency help, self-help material or the offer of a counselling appointment.
They are funded by the major lenders (who would rather get some money back from creditors than having huge write offs) and can negotiate on your behalf.
It is this unique mechanism that allows them to provide their services totally free.
They are very good at what they do.
Hope you get it sorted mate
Over the telephone, a helpline advisor will perform an immediate assessment of the situation ending in emergency help, self-help material or the offer of a counselling appointment.
They are funded by the major lenders (who would rather get some money back from creditors than having huge write offs) and can negotiate on your behalf.
It is this unique mechanism that allows them to provide their services totally free.
They are very good at what they do.
Hope you get it sorted mate
Edited by Agrilla on Friday 24th June 19:48
A couple of pointers for you -
1) They don't need the original signed contract to legaly enforce the debt, a reconstituted agreement is fine. The fact they have legally enforced the debt already means the judge who ruled on the case must be happy with the details presented to the court - so it's probably a bit late in the day to try and challenge this.
2) The 1st lender does not need to give authority for a property to be sold - all that happens is that their loan is paid off first.
On this basis the debt purchaser must feel you have enough equity in your house for them to get paid once they have settled the 1st mortgage. One possible point to look into, if you GENUINELY believe the house is in negative equity then the forced sale would be a waste of time as the debt purchaser won't get any money and in fact you will end up with a mortgage shortfall debt - that could be deemed as unreasonable. However it would mean the DP has not done their homework very well.
Also with all due respect, you have waited 6 years without paying back anything on this debt, it's not exactly the DP being impatient, but using legitimate methods to collect on a debt that is long overdue. Most courts are sympathetic to debtors especially on forced sales, so again if this has gone against you the evidence presented must be pretty good.
You are right in that the DP will have paid far less for the debt - depending on the type of debt possibly well under £0.10p per £1. However this is still irrelvant to the amount of the original debt, had you engaged the company earlier then a lower settlement would have been more likely. Most charges will be laid out in the original contract, and a large proportion of them will have been added during the early life of the debt, however it is worth checking them just to make sure they are not deemed unreasonable.
Finally as has been pointed out get in touch with someone senior at the company and ask them directly how much to settle and stop the action. I think the £4k now may be a bit optimistic, especially if they believe they will get a higher settlement once the house sale is completed, which they are on the verge of doing!!
Good luck getting sorted, communication is key.
1) They don't need the original signed contract to legaly enforce the debt, a reconstituted agreement is fine. The fact they have legally enforced the debt already means the judge who ruled on the case must be happy with the details presented to the court - so it's probably a bit late in the day to try and challenge this.
2) The 1st lender does not need to give authority for a property to be sold - all that happens is that their loan is paid off first.
On this basis the debt purchaser must feel you have enough equity in your house for them to get paid once they have settled the 1st mortgage. One possible point to look into, if you GENUINELY believe the house is in negative equity then the forced sale would be a waste of time as the debt purchaser won't get any money and in fact you will end up with a mortgage shortfall debt - that could be deemed as unreasonable. However it would mean the DP has not done their homework very well.
Also with all due respect, you have waited 6 years without paying back anything on this debt, it's not exactly the DP being impatient, but using legitimate methods to collect on a debt that is long overdue. Most courts are sympathetic to debtors especially on forced sales, so again if this has gone against you the evidence presented must be pretty good.
You are right in that the DP will have paid far less for the debt - depending on the type of debt possibly well under £0.10p per £1. However this is still irrelvant to the amount of the original debt, had you engaged the company earlier then a lower settlement would have been more likely. Most charges will be laid out in the original contract, and a large proportion of them will have been added during the early life of the debt, however it is worth checking them just to make sure they are not deemed unreasonable.
Finally as has been pointed out get in touch with someone senior at the company and ask them directly how much to settle and stop the action. I think the £4k now may be a bit optimistic, especially if they believe they will get a higher settlement once the house sale is completed, which they are on the verge of doing!!
Good luck getting sorted, communication is key.
Anon1234 said:
Good point.
AFAIK the motgage company hasn't been approached and so wont have given their consent.
So where do I stand on this?
Wrong, the charging order will normally include a power of sale, they are however legally obliged to repay anybody with a prior charge before using any surplus funds to repay thier own debt.AFAIK the motgage company hasn't been approached and so wont have given their consent.
So where do I stand on this?
Also, dont forget that if they dont fully clear the outstanding debt from the sale proceeds you still remain liable for the remaining debt. If I were the collection agency I would then be looking for a garnishee order against your salary to recover my outstanding debt.
Like most people have said, you need urgent advice.
S
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