AWOL accountants
Discussion
OK, so my accountancy firm seems to be in a bit of bother. Head chap is currently in jail (accused of fraud it seems) and has ACCA reg removed after a nasty run in (a sideline to the accountancy business) with the FSA (biiiiig fine).
The senior accountants have all left (understandable), leaving only the juniors.
I do the VAT (simple company, just two employees) but they do the calcs PAYE which is again pretty simple.
Have been pretty happy with the service thus far (previous year's accounts done before all this kicked off and haven’t been that involved with them since apart from PAYE) – they don’t have any “paperwork” I do all the prep work on spreadsheets for bank rec/invoices/expenses etc.
Accounts due end of Sept. Seriously worried about a) their ability to do them on time in the first place b) not having anyone with some letters after their name able to do final check and sign c) their ability to provide any paperwork to a new accountant.
I am obviously going to move accountants, but want the Annual Accounts done before I do…however the risk them just not being able to do them is worrying. And the fines are quite big.
Given a fairly simple set of numbers that I already have, how long would it take someone else to be able to produce the accounts ? Assume T&M for the costings ? Ballpark ? £500 ? £1000 ? Assume it will be more than a "standard" set given the possible digging required ?
If I bail before the accounts are done, and the new accountants don’t get sent all the details, is this going to make the process longer ?
In the longer term, given I do the VAT, does it make more sense to bring PAYE in house and just get the annual accounts done for a fee, rather than pay monthly ? The "pay monthly" accountants seem a little flighty, my previous lot were very good, then they got taken over by another outfit from Southall and all of a sudden I was talking to Bombay !
Thanks,
The senior accountants have all left (understandable), leaving only the juniors.
I do the VAT (simple company, just two employees) but they do the calcs PAYE which is again pretty simple.
Have been pretty happy with the service thus far (previous year's accounts done before all this kicked off and haven’t been that involved with them since apart from PAYE) – they don’t have any “paperwork” I do all the prep work on spreadsheets for bank rec/invoices/expenses etc.
Accounts due end of Sept. Seriously worried about a) their ability to do them on time in the first place b) not having anyone with some letters after their name able to do final check and sign c) their ability to provide any paperwork to a new accountant.
I am obviously going to move accountants, but want the Annual Accounts done before I do…however the risk them just not being able to do them is worrying. And the fines are quite big.
Given a fairly simple set of numbers that I already have, how long would it take someone else to be able to produce the accounts ? Assume T&M for the costings ? Ballpark ? £500 ? £1000 ? Assume it will be more than a "standard" set given the possible digging required ?
If I bail before the accounts are done, and the new accountants don’t get sent all the details, is this going to make the process longer ?
In the longer term, given I do the VAT, does it make more sense to bring PAYE in house and just get the annual accounts done for a fee, rather than pay monthly ? The "pay monthly" accountants seem a little flighty, my previous lot were very good, then they got taken over by another outfit from Southall and all of a sudden I was talking to Bombay !
Thanks,
I suggest you keep your accounts with Uptons, since that's the only way he's going to get the money in to pay me back for the Currency Plan scam. Thanks!
did you get a hint of sarcasm?
Regarding the alleged fraud part, please check that you/your company have actually paid HMRC any monies owed in the past. The allegation is that he was telling clients to pay their tax bills into a particular sortcode/bank account - that wasn't a HMRC one....
did you get a hint of sarcasm?
Regarding the alleged fraud part, please check that you/your company have actually paid HMRC any monies owed in the past. The allegation is that he was telling clients to pay their tax bills into a particular sortcode/bank account - that wasn't a HMRC one....
Probably easier to link to another site if you're interested Eric...
Upshot of the Currency Plan fraud
followed by
The 'mis-directing money' allegations
Upshot of the Currency Plan fraud
followed by
The 'mis-directing money' allegations
F458 said:
why would you pay tax money to an accountant to pay the tax man and not just do it yourself?
Some accountants operate in this manner. There is nothing wrong with it and HMRC are perfectly happy to work with such an accountant, provided the client has authorised the arrangement.Accountants sometimes prefer to do this if they know that the client is going to have regular tax refunds. The acccountant can then ask the client permission to deduct his fee from the tax refund before paying the balance remaining of the tax refund to the client.
Some clients actually prefer this as it saves them the bother of having to pay their accountant directly.
I prefer my clients to look after their own tax payment affairs as it makes life far less complicated for me.
Edited by Eric Mc on Saturday 3rd March 14:11
F458 said:
why would you pay tax money to an accountant to pay the tax man and not just do it yourself?
Why would you give money to a solicitor to transfer when you purchase a house?It is a "professional" in a position of trust and whilst I wouldn't do it myself...I can completely understand why people would do without thinking twice about it.
Ah, I don't think that was how it worked.
He set up an account (apparently called HMRC, but I can't see that happening), submitted a £0 CT return, and then wrote to clients telling them their CT bill and giving the "HMRC" account details and amount.
Some clients thought they were paying their CT bill. I guess the problem with the scam is that as soon as someone notices that the account details changed and smells a rat, then the game is up.
He set up an account (apparently called HMRC, but I can't see that happening), submitted a £0 CT return, and then wrote to clients telling them their CT bill and giving the "HMRC" account details and amount.
Some clients thought they were paying their CT bill. I guess the problem with the scam is that as soon as someone notices that the account details changed and smells a rat, then the game is up.
I have always tended to find that when you know all the financial aspects of your client, then they trust you completely. I think often its because nobody knows how much money they do or don't have, not even their partners - so once they're honest about that, everything else comes second.
Such cases are extremely rare thankfully.
In over 40 years in the profession I have seen less than less than half a dozen thankfully. That is of course six too many!
It does happen sadly.
Very difficult to detect crookery until after the crime.
What a dreadful waste of a career.
I do hope the clients are able to achieve recourse through the various professional indemnities and insurances.
In over 40 years in the profession I have seen less than less than half a dozen thankfully. That is of course six too many!
It does happen sadly.
Very difficult to detect crookery until after the crime.
What a dreadful waste of a career.
I do hope the clients are able to achieve recourse through the various professional indemnities and insurances.
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