how can i avoid care home fees ?

[black1]

ok guys heres the prob, my mum who is 88 is not in good health
before long i think she will need help, now heres the crunch her total assests are close to
half a million pounds, so can mum go on a cruise and pay for all of us and buy a new c63 amg
etc etc and not break any laws ?

both my mum and dad worked long and hard for there money and it would be nice if some of it could
be kept in the family !

[grumbledoak]

I believe 12 Paracetamol would spare you the care home fees.

But to keep the money without paying the tax it has to be a gift seven years or more before she goes to meet her maker, IIRC. You may be leaving it a bit late.

[nomisesor]

Average cost of care home fees £30k, average length of stay 2.5years = £75k.

You'll have plenty left.

[anonymous-user]

No, there is no legal way of avoiding paying care home fees or avoiding inheritance tax save for her going to Las Vegas and blowing the lot on coke and hookers or unless she gives the money away now and lives to 95, which unfortunately sounds unlikely.

Your parents were obviously prudent people, so you're lucky that your mum can afford to pay for a good care home, rather than just being placed in whichever one the state offers her (even today there are some bloody awful ones).

Assuming that she spends £20,000/year on fees etc until she passes away there should still be a nice chunk of money left. Don't forget that the first £325k is free of inheritance tax.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 24th December 09:21

[BliarOut]

I do believe there is some sort of trust you can use, but you have to do it before she goes into any form of care!

[cymtriks]

A properly planed mix of gifts, etc, can be very worthwhile. Not just financilly but personally too. Presumably she would rather be remembered as a generous person who repaid all the effort that her familly had spent on her and treated the grandchildren as opposed to someone who sat around looking at a big pile of money for the last years of her life.

Is there anything your mum wants to spend her money on? Does your mum owe you anything that she would like to repay while she has the oportunity? Has she promised the kids something or want to treat the kids before she is too old to do so? Considering how much you have done already does she feel its reasonable to buy you a replacement car? Would a new computer help you keep in touch?

There are rules and guidelines regarding what payments are reasonable, read them. Talk to a solicitor aswell. There is absolutely no reason for her to want to hang on to her money any more, she can't take it with her and most of whats left will only be taken away if she doesn't use it. Its time for treating the grandchildren!

Don't try to cheat the system but don't do nothing either, this might be her last oportunity to repay kindnesses and treat the kids!

[anonymous-user]

Some good points there, highlights the importances of a bit of tax planning for those who have sizeable estates, a couple of hours with a good expert can save many thousands of pounds in tax. The problem is that to get the most benefit you need to start the process as early as possible.

[essayer]

fking hell.

What does she want to do?

Maybe she'd like to put the money toward a better home than one the council will fund, so she doesn't end her days living in a shared room in a lower-tier nursing home? Or perhaps pay for a private carer who will let her live with a level of independence at home.

You have discussed this with her, I hope? Before you start eyeing up her money.

[Uncle Fester]

If you sell both your home and hers then together you can buy a property with a granny annex. Take care of her yourself for as long as possible.

After six months it becomes difficult for the council to separate the ownership and charge her for care home fees.

[Countdown]

black1 said:

ok guys heres the prob, my mum who is 88 is not in good health
before long i think she will need help, now heres the crunch her total assests are close to
half a million pounds, so can mum go on a cruise and pay for all of us and buy a new c63 amg
etc etc and not break any laws ?

both my mum and dad worked long and hard for there money and it would be nice if some of it could
be kept in the family !

Black 1 - I can understand why you'd want to hang on to the money. However

State care of the elderly is a means-tested benefit in that it is only provided free of charge to those who haven't got the ability to pay for it themselves. If you DO find a loophole which means that her £500k isn't used for her own benefit and is passed down"within the family" to fund C63 AMGs all it means is that other taxpayers will have to pay for her care instead.

[TFP]

The situation is fairly straightforward; if you indulge in any transaction which the Local Authority considers was entered in to as part of a fee advoidance strategy, they will simply look through it (just keep on walking if you come across any snake oil salesmen offering Trusts, or any other product that will work for such a purpose - just the fact they are offering solutions for such a purpose is likely to mean that they will fail) so they will just assume that the asset is actually owned by the individual, regardless of any fancy pants Trust or other structure you may have.

If you do go down such a route, you must do so on the basis that you are taking a punt.

[Eric Mc]

tonker - you talk so much sense sometimes.

[2 5HAN]

black1 said:

ok guys heres the prob, my mum who is 88 is not in good health
before long i think she will need help, now heres the crunch her total assests are close to
half a million pounds, so can mum go on a cruise and pay for all of us and buy a new c63 amg
etc etc and not break any laws ?

both my mum and dad worked long and hard for there money and it would be nice if some of it could
be kept in the family !

Before you hide it away and place it in trusts etc be sure you go and look at the homes your mum will end up in as a Social Services funded client. I would hope that you would then reconsider you plans.

There are definitely ways of doing it as someone in the business of care homes i have seen it first hand and yes those families will often have saved £00000's but as mentioned above sadly it is all of us that end up paying as the state picks up the bill.

Big difference between now and say 3 years ago is that the local social services have NO money and they are looking for the cheapest possible bed even if it is in home that is currently under investigation for allegations of abuse, poor standards of care etc, they sadly don’t seem to care, all they are interested in is making the placement to satisfy their budgets. On the other hand they need to get people placed so they are just trying to do their job.

If mum has a circa 500k estate then there is no reason why it should all get spent, go and see an IFA who specialises in Care Annuities and you will then be able to mitigate your exposure to the care fees for the future.

[charliedaker]

As has been said, go and see an IFA who specialises in this sort of thing.

This is a must.

I have own a residential home and i have seen many an inheritance dwindle away due to taking poor advice.

And although as has been said an average stay is closer to 2.5yrs, generally those that arrive fit and healthy tend to be with us longer than that- the longest being 17yrs!

[BliarOut]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There's also a case for not being prudent throughout your life, instead spend it all while you're young enough to enjoy it and let the state pick up the tab at the end.

[Countdown]

BliarOut said:

There's also a case for not being prudent throughout your life, instead spend it all while you're young enough to enjoy it and let the state pick up the tab at the end.

The "State" being everybody else (or more accurately those of us that pay tax).

[DSLiverpool]

essayer said:

fking hell.

What does she want to do?

Maybe she'd like to put the money toward a better home than one the council will fund, so she doesn't end her days living in a shared room in a lower-tier nursing home? Or perhaps pay for a private carer who will let her live with a level of independence at home.

You have discussed this with her, I hope? Before you start eyeing up her money.

100% spot on. Op what your saying is fking awful when my mum needed a home we got her in the nicest one we could find her and we looked at loads before settling on a bupa home nearby. Cost didn't come into it as she had similar to your mum and it costs currently £800 a week she is in good health but has dementia - she is happy

Pissing your mums money away so she ends up in a council care home CANNOT be a realistic option - tell me you didn't mean that

[cymtriks]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If he finds a way through the rule book by working his way carefully through it, or just stumbles across one while trying to help her with her finances, then why not?
Would you suggest that someone should not read the rules inorder to ensure that they had no advantage over anyone else?

anonymous said:

[redacted]

They are asking to be paid three times for the same thing, once from her own taxes, second from the OP's taxes and then finally out of what she has left.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The more costly homes we looked at offered nothing extra that would appeal to our elderly relatives.

The other side of what you've said is that this is her last opportunity to repay debts, reward kindnesses and give gifts while she is still in control and aware of what is being done.

If the OP has looked after her for several years, travelling many miles back and forth and giving up the bulk of his spare time to do so, then a new car might be entirely reasonable for example.

As long as the hand outs are within reason the state shouldn't object.

[BliarOut]

Countdown said:

BliarOut said:

There's also a case for not being prudent throughout your life, instead spend it all while you're young enough to enjoy it and let the state pick up the tab at the end.

The "State" being everybody else (or more accurately those of us that pay tax).

So saving money to give to the state in your dotage is a good idea on balance?

[cymtriks]

DSLiverpool said:

essayer said:

fking hell.

What does she want to do?

Maybe she'd like to put the money toward a better home than one the council will fund, so she doesn't end her days living in a shared room in a lower-tier nursing home? Or perhaps pay for a private carer who will let her live with a level of independence at home.

You have discussed this with her, I hope? Before you start eyeing up her money.

100% spot on. Op what your saying is fking awful when my mum needed a home we got her in the nicest one we could find her and we looked at loads before settling on a bupa home nearby. Cost didn't come into it as she had similar to your mum and it costs currently £800 a week she is in good health but has dementia - she is happy

Pissing your mums money away so she ends up in a council care home CANNOT be a realistic option - tell me you didn't mean that

She may be past caring. What she wants may not be reasonable or practicable.

Carers at home will work if some tasks are done by the carer but it won't work at all if the carer has a long list of stuff they can't do, or don't consider to be their job to notice or comment on, and the old dear can't cope at all for the rest of time.

If she has taken to wandering across busy roads in her nightie or is having accidents in the kitchen or with a fireplace she may actually be a danger to others. I know of several cases of fires starting (one fatal) due to old folk. This is one good reason not to have an elderly person live with you. A granny annex next door or down the garden yes, but not under the same roof. Seriously, that fatal fire I mentioned could very easily have killed half my extended family.

Though some homes offer more and charge accordingly what if she doesn't want these extras?

It may not be possible to have much of a meaningful discussion with her about any of this. Trust me on this, I've been there.