Logbook/Bill of sale car loan ?.

[blade7]

Asked this in GG but didn't get an answer so, is there any protection against an unregistered or undeclared Logbook or BOS loan on a private purchase for someone that buys a car in good faith ?.

[Steffan]

There is against Hire Purchase on the car under the legislation.

Absolute protection. For the private buyer. Acting in good faith.

Whether thus extends to log book loans I do not know.

Good faith is` the critical bit.

If you cannot make any search to protect yourself, and certainly you cannot make any such search that I can think of at the moment, that is a very interesting question.

I will have a look at the law.

The DVLA maintain the logbook is NOT proof of ownership.

Presumably you are considering buying a car without the V5.

There is a risk in this in normal circumstances as you probably know. Is` there a bigger risk if a log book loan is undisclosed? Interesting.

[blade7]

Steffan said:

If you cannot make any search to protect yourself, and certainly you cannot make any such search that I can think of at the moment, that is a very interesting question.

I will have a look at the law.

The DVLA maintain the logbook is NOT proof of ownership.

Presumably you are considering buying a car without the V5.

There is a risk in this in normal circumstances as you probably know. Is` there a bigger risk if a log book loan is undisclosed? Interesting.

The situation is I came very close to buying a car advertised on Ebay, HPI came back clear, but the guy had only owned it 4 months and it was registered to his father at different address, the car was mint and a fair price but despite being listed 4 times on ebay there were no other bids, this made me wary and some research on the logbook loans rang alarm bells, I think a duplicate V5 can be obtained quite easily too.

[Steffan]

blade7 said:

Steffan said:

If you cannot make any search to protect yourself, and certainly you cannot make any such search that I can think of at the moment, that is a very interesting question.

I will have a look at the law.

The DVLA maintain the logbook is NOT proof of ownership.

Presumably you are considering buying a car without the V5.

There is a risk in this in normal circumstances as you probably know. Is` there a bigger risk if a log book loan is undisclosed? Interesting.

The situation is I came very close to buying a car advertised on Ebay, HPI came back clear, but the guy had only owned it 4 months and it was registered to his father at different address, the car was mint and a fair price but despite being listed 4 times on ebay there were no other bids, this made me wary and some research on the logbook loan thing rang alarm bells, I think a duplicate V5 can be obtained quite easily.

It can.

But as a private buyer there is no way to protect yourself from such a purchase. I can see no way to discover the hidden charges. There is no register of log book loans so far as I know.

If a log book is present and you have a bill of sale I believe the log book lenders would struggle to repossess the car.

I will research the question tonight.

[blade7]

Steffan said:

blade7 said:

Steffan said:

If you cannot make any search to protect yourself, and certainly you cannot make any such search that I can think of at the moment, that is a very interesting question.

I will have a look at the law.

The DVLA maintain the logbook is NOT proof of ownership.

Presumably you are considering buying a car without the V5.

There is a risk in this in normal circumstances as you probably know. Is` there a bigger risk if a log book loan is undisclosed? Interesting.

The situation is I came very close to buying a car advertised on Ebay, HPI came back clear, but the guy had only owned it 4 months and it was registered to his father at different address, the car was mint and a fair price but despite being listed 4 times on ebay there were no other bids, this made me wary and some research on the logbook loan thing rang alarm bells, I think a duplicate V5 can be obtained quite easily.

It can.

But as a private buyer there is no way to protect yourself from such a purchase. I can see no way to discover the hidden charges. There is no register of log book loans so far as I know.

If a log book is present and you have a bill of sale I believe the log book lenders would struggle to repossess the car.

I will research the question tonight.

Thanks for your help,the car has been listed on ebay again, but I think getting good title could be a battle if a BOS loan is involved.

[Steffan]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I appreciate the link.

But I am not sure that a land charges case would relate to a vehicle sale.

The sale of land is controlled far more effectively by the courts than more common transactions for goods and chattels. Hence the requirement for the contracts for the transfer of land to be in writing. And so on.

However I do agree that it does suggest that the courts do not look favourably on unregistered charges against which the bone fide open market purchaser cannot obtain protection or establish by reasonable enquiry.

For example how would an Auction House know of a log book loan.

Answer: they cannot.

Given the presence of the V5 and a bone fide Bill of Sale I am inclined to think the purchaser is protected.

What do others think?

[Steffan]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes on that basis I can see where you are coming from.

IMO the Log Book loan unregistered against the vehicle would not take precedence over the Bone Fide Purchaser who has a genuine V5 and registers it.

But I cannot find a definitive case on or near to a chattel with an unregistered charge.

So I will dig a bit more. Interesting I learn something every day.

[blade7]

Steffan said:

If a log book is present and you have a bill of sale I believe the log book lenders would struggle to repossess the car.

Some research suggests these logbook loan companies are not obliged to obtain a court order before reposessing cars subject to a unpaid logbook loan, it's not unheard of for debt collectors to take the car without notice from subsequent innocent purchasers,and then quickly auction the car.

[blade7]

Hello Steffan, did you find if there's any protection in law a for purchasers of cars with logbook loans involved ?.

[Steffan]

blade7 said:

Hello Steffan, did you find if there's any protection in law a for purchasers of cars with logbook loans involved ?.

Not that would be any more reliable than the statements above.

If the car comes with a log book and Bill of Sale I think the Log Book Loan is not enforceable against the car. But I cannot find a definitive case.

As a matter of fact I register all my cars at an address which is the registered office of the company concerned. As a result the cars are never at the address that they are registered at. The cars never go there.

They are at various other domestic addresses I have.

In consequence in my case the log book loan company would have some difficulty in finding the car. In fact they would fail.

Food for thought perhaps.

If the cannot find the car they cannot levy distraint, assuming they could anyway post sale, which I seriously doubt.

Hope that helps.

[blade7]

Thanks for the advice, from what I can find the logbook loan companies dont usually prevail in court. I had planned to register the car to my other address and do a HPI type check after a few months to see if the car is still clear, but it's a game I'd rather not play and why the government let it continue I dont understand.