Will they get me?
Discussion
Hi all
Firstly, sorry for signing up with a new name - the reason may be obvious shortly....
I was born and bred in the UK until in 1996, at 28 years old, left and moved to Mainland Europe.
From leaving my apprenticeship until I was 26 I was always employed, never drew benefits and paid all my dues. The last 2 years before leaving the UK I started a small (one man) business.
I was lazy with the book-keeping.
I had financial problems with a client which took a few months to sort out.
During this period of difficulty all my suppliers and workshop landlord were sympathetic and patient - more than can be said for the tax and vatman.
When I finally got paid I settled all of my debts completely apart from the taxman and vatman whom I estimate I owed £10k-£15k between them.
I didn`t earn much with the business, but left with £5k in my pocket.
I have had regular contact with my landlord(family member) who returned any post from the tax/vatman as "return to sender". There were no court cases or CCJ`s although the bailiff for the vat came round once while I was still there - I had no assets at that time.
Since moving here I have worked hard, bought a house and apart from the mortgage am debt free.
Due to family reasons I am considering moving back to the UK. If I sold up here and paid off my mortgage I think I would have a nest egg of around £100k which is enough to buy a small house near to my family.
The question is, after 16 years, would the tax/vatman still be interested in chasing me?
I know I am leaving myself wide open to the "holier than thou" brigade, but in my opinion I paid my fair share in tax before starting the business and am planning working fulltime on my return - definitely not looking for any handouts.
Firstly, sorry for signing up with a new name - the reason may be obvious shortly....
I was born and bred in the UK until in 1996, at 28 years old, left and moved to Mainland Europe.
From leaving my apprenticeship until I was 26 I was always employed, never drew benefits and paid all my dues. The last 2 years before leaving the UK I started a small (one man) business.
I was lazy with the book-keeping.
I had financial problems with a client which took a few months to sort out.
During this period of difficulty all my suppliers and workshop landlord were sympathetic and patient - more than can be said for the tax and vatman.
When I finally got paid I settled all of my debts completely apart from the taxman and vatman whom I estimate I owed £10k-£15k between them.
I didn`t earn much with the business, but left with £5k in my pocket.
I have had regular contact with my landlord(family member) who returned any post from the tax/vatman as "return to sender". There were no court cases or CCJ`s although the bailiff for the vat came round once while I was still there - I had no assets at that time.
Since moving here I have worked hard, bought a house and apart from the mortgage am debt free.
Due to family reasons I am considering moving back to the UK. If I sold up here and paid off my mortgage I think I would have a nest egg of around £100k which is enough to buy a small house near to my family.
The question is, after 16 years, would the tax/vatman still be interested in chasing me?
I know I am leaving myself wide open to the "holier than thou" brigade, but in my opinion I paid my fair share in tax before starting the business and am planning working fulltime on my return - definitely not looking for any handouts.
I have no specific knowledge of this area but I seriously doubt they would come knocking after 16 years.
However, I am pretty sure they would snap your hand off for the debt being repaid. You could even try and negotiate from your current location - if they think you are quite happy where you are but it has always bothered you kind of thing they may agree to the original amount and forget any fees etc.
However, I am pretty sure they would snap your hand off for the debt being repaid. You could even try and negotiate from your current location - if they think you are quite happy where you are but it has always bothered you kind of thing they may agree to the original amount and forget any fees etc.
Expat Smiler said:
I know I am leaving myself wide open to the "holier than thou" brigade, but in my opinion I paid my fair share in tax before starting the business and am planning working fulltime on my return - definitely not looking for any handouts.
The truth is your debt will probably have been forgotten long ago. However, I don't agree with the last bit. Your 'fair share' of tax is and always will be the amount that is actually due as it is calculated in the same way for everybody. As an individual it is not for you to decide the rate you pay.If the amount they calculated is wrong then this is a different matter and you should have discussed this with them at the time.
No doubt you have got away with it and I don't blame you for doing so, just don't pretend it is ok because you paid tax at some other point on some other income. This is not 'holier than thou', just fair.
Countdown said:
Countdown said:
Not sure how the Bailiff can come round if there were no court cases or CCJs
- cough*
As for making a Disclosure, it might be worth googling "simple interest calculator", based on 15K since 1996 at HMRc rates plus fines and the fact the deception was deliberate, that is you just left, it's likely to be a serious amount of money. At least 50% fine running with interest, I'd reckon £50K notionally plus fees to make a disclosure £10K.
As for them remembering, who knows but I assume you Tax code/NI number will be the same and it might flag up.
Thanks for the replies so far.
At the time, it wasn`t a case of doing a runner - it was more a case of suffering depression/stress and leaving for a fresh start.
The fact is I owed them money and due to being lazy with the book keeping I don`t know exactly how much - I`m only guesstimating the amount which, I`m sure, they will too - knowing how they work it will be a MUCH higher figure.
I`m not looking forward to investing my hard-earned in bricks and mortar only to have it all taken away from me - that would just put me back to square one.
As far as the moral issue - if it helps any I have paid over 50% in income tax/stoppages in the last 16 years this side of the water - albeit to a different taxman.
I just want to be able to come back without this hanging over me. Does anyone have any idea how to go about checking how I stand - without stirring up a hornet`s nest?
At the time, it wasn`t a case of doing a runner - it was more a case of suffering depression/stress and leaving for a fresh start.
The fact is I owed them money and due to being lazy with the book keeping I don`t know exactly how much - I`m only guesstimating the amount which, I`m sure, they will too - knowing how they work it will be a MUCH higher figure.
I`m not looking forward to investing my hard-earned in bricks and mortar only to have it all taken away from me - that would just put me back to square one.
As far as the moral issue - if it helps any I have paid over 50% in income tax/stoppages in the last 16 years this side of the water - albeit to a different taxman.
I just want to be able to come back without this hanging over me. Does anyone have any idea how to go about checking how I stand - without stirring up a hornet`s nest?
Ok, moral bit aside I will try and offer some useful advice.
The only way to really stop this hanging over you would be to contact them and agree how the amount they were chasing for was calculated. If you do not have proper records, they would probably look to bank records and analyse the payments into your account. It would probably be up to you to show that each amount was not a business receipt.
Those mentioning disclosure I am not sure this is relevant as it is not income HMRC was unaware but just an old assessment/debt? Also, whoever suggested a £10k fee for a simple discloure is using the wrong accountants I can assure you!
As before, it is likely this was has been written off so you are probably ok, although it might have had an impact on your credit rating?
The only way to really stop this hanging over you would be to contact them and agree how the amount they were chasing for was calculated. If you do not have proper records, they would probably look to bank records and analyse the payments into your account. It would probably be up to you to show that each amount was not a business receipt.
Those mentioning disclosure I am not sure this is relevant as it is not income HMRC was unaware but just an old assessment/debt? Also, whoever suggested a £10k fee for a simple discloure is using the wrong accountants I can assure you!
As before, it is likely this was has been written off so you are probably ok, although it might have had an impact on your credit rating?
Toro Rosso said:
Ok, moral bit aside I will try and offer some useful advice.
The only way to really stop this hanging over you would be to contact them and agree how the amount they were chasing for was calculated. If you do not have proper records, they would probably look to bank records and analyse the payments into your account. It would probably be up to you to show that each amount was not a business receipt.
Those mentioning disclosure I am not sure this is relevant as it is not income HMRC was unaware but just an old assessment/debt? Also, whoever suggested a £10k fee for a simple discloure is using the wrong accountants I can assure you!
As before, it is likely this was has been written off so you are probably ok, although it might have had an impact on your credit rating?
I like the simplistic "They", They won't do anything other than slap the highest assessment they can think off on this person and then leave it up to him to prove otherwise.The only way to really stop this hanging over you would be to contact them and agree how the amount they were chasing for was calculated. If you do not have proper records, they would probably look to bank records and analyse the payments into your account. It would probably be up to you to show that each amount was not a business receipt.
Those mentioning disclosure I am not sure this is relevant as it is not income HMRC was unaware but just an old assessment/debt? Also, whoever suggested a £10k fee for a simple discloure is using the wrong accountants I can assure you!
As before, it is likely this was has been written off so you are probably ok, although it might have had an impact on your credit rating?
HMRC rightly don't like people who don't pay their taxes, they like even less people who don't pay taxes and don't keep records. The moment a disclosure is made HMRC have a duty to ensure that it is a full and complete disclosure.
So what's your bid on a 16 year old case, possibly with no records, to be fully reconstructed so as to accurately reflect the situation back then by a reputable practice who HMRC will accept at face value.
Assuming not VAT registered approx £8,000 + Vat could easily be consumed.
Hyper10 said:
I like the simplistic "They", They won't do anything other than slap the highest assessment they can think off on this person and then leave it up to him to prove otherwise.
HMRC rightly don't like people who don't pay their taxes, they like even less people who don't pay taxes and don't keep records. The moment a disclosure is made HMRC have a duty to ensure that it is a full and complete disclosure.
So what's your bid on a 16 year old case, possibly with no records, to be fully reconstructed so as to accurately reflect the situation back then by a reputable practice who HMRC will accept at face value.
Assuming not VAT registered approx £8,000 + Vat could easily be consumed.
Not sure I understand the problem with 'they' as OP is aware we are talking about HMRC.HMRC rightly don't like people who don't pay their taxes, they like even less people who don't pay taxes and don't keep records. The moment a disclosure is made HMRC have a duty to ensure that it is a full and complete disclosure.
So what's your bid on a 16 year old case, possibly with no records, to be fully reconstructed so as to accurately reflect the situation back then by a reputable practice who HMRC will accept at face value.
Assuming not VAT registered approx £8,000 + Vat could easily be consumed.
I think my first para covered the fact that they (HMRC) will use the highest amount they can and ask the OP to prove otherwise so I don't disagree with this.
I think I said it would not need to be a disclosure. It sounds more like they raised an assessment and the OP needs to contact them to query the amount if he does not think it is correct. If it is and they are still chasing he simply needs to pay it. It is not a disclosure as you cannot disclose something of which they are already aware!
I am a mere employee and therefore would not like to bid for the case, but I can tell you we have been working on a case going back further and involving far more tax which is working from bank records and have not got to that fee level. I would like to think the practice is reputable (albeit small).
Toro Rosso said:
Very true, and probably worth doing.
Credit file will only go back six years so it will be blank.I would assume that as soon as the OP lands in the UK and starts to filter back into the system that details will be flagged somewhere whether it be via the Land Registry, credit referencing agencies or debt collection companies and somebody will come knocking.
The VAT man has a long memory.....................
Sarnie said:
Credit file will only go back six years so it will be blank.
I would assume that as soon as the OP lands in the UK and starts to filter back into the system that details will be flagged somewhere whether it be via the Land Registry, credit referencing agencies or debt collection companies and somebody will come knocking.
The VAT man has a long memory.....................
You are probably right. My opinion is still that if the OP wants clarity and closure on the situation that he should just come forward but he didnt seem to so I said he MIGHT get away with it...I would assume that as soon as the OP lands in the UK and starts to filter back into the system that details will be flagged somewhere whether it be via the Land Registry, credit referencing agencies or debt collection companies and somebody will come knocking.
The VAT man has a long memory.....................
Toro Rosso said:
You are probably right. My opinion is still that if the OP wants clarity and closure on the situation that he should just come forward but he didnt seem to so I said he MIGHT get away with it...
The thing is.....the OP jetted off into the sun with £5k in his pocket that should have been given to the Tax man....he's successfully set up a new life and wants to come back with £100k+ but doesn't want to pay back the original amount that he neglected to pay that allowed him to now be in a position to have such sums of money now?????If he'd paid what was owed at the time, he wouldn't have £100k now probably. You'd think now that he'd feel appreciative that by avoiding those taxes unlike the rest of us has allowed him to be in such a position, that he'd be happily prepared to pay it back, rather than trying to find out whether he can sneak back into the UK under the radar...............
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