Safe haven for my money?

[sunbeam alpine]

First post in this area - as a result of the Euro/Cyprus threads.

I'm British, currently based (working) in Belgium. By living a fairly sober and careful life I've managed to save a bit, and also have a couple of properties in the UK which I currently rent out. My financial assets in the UK are in total under £10000 and the 2 houses I rent out are houses I lived in then later rented out after moving for work, so my total UK income isn't enough to pay tax - I'm still paying off the mortgages.

What is of more immediate concern is the savings I have over here. Would I be better moving it to the UK (i.e. is the £ going to be safer in the long run)? I've heard a lot about buying gold, but wouldn't know where to start.

I've never really taken a lot of interest in finances, other than being careful and watching my savings slowly rise, so I know nothing about the alternative possibilities. Under the current conditions I don't really feel I can trust the banks for advice - as they'll be trying to stop a run on the currency.

Anyone have any serious suggestions?

Or should I just go out Monday and buy a Ferrari?

[Sarnie]

sunbeam alpine said:

Or should I just go out Monday and buy a Lamborghini?

Thats what you should do instead

[Mankers]

For wealth preservation diversification is the key, you mention Gbp and gold, holding either or both is not diverse enough. What security holdings do you have, how much cash, in what currency, yielding how much interest per annum? It sounds like you may have to pay for wealth planning.

[sunbeam alpine]

Mankers said:

For wealth preservation diversification is the key, you mention Gbp and gold, holding either or both is not diverse enough. What security holdings do you have, how much cash, in what currency, yielding how much interest per annum? It sounds like you may have to pay for wealth planning.

I don't think I even know enough to answer that! Security holdings? My savings (split across several banks now since the problems) would probably add up to a bit over €100000.

I don't mind paying for advice, but I don't know where to get it - the reason for my post. In the past I have always gone to the bank, but I am beginning to lose my trust in any advice they may give, and don't know where else to look.

I have a deep suspicion of financial advisors - at the end of the 80's, when I bought my first house, everyone said I was mad not to take on an endowment mortgage - all my friends did (I went for straight repayment) - and most of them regret it now. I guess you could best describe me as risk-averse

Or should I just withdraw it as cash and put in the safe at home? At least then the state can't take it away.

I'm not looking to massively increase what I have, but I'm looking at a way to protect it from situations like what is currently happening in Cyprus.

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Saturday 16th March 21:26

[Ultraviolet]

Why not start by going onto www.trustnet.com and looking at the risk ratings there? Would give you an idea of the sort of things you can easily invest in with an account with Hargreaves Lansdown or similar.

You could then start to build a portfolio of, for example - split across different risk bands, sectors and markets.
So you could start with split across half a dozen fixed interest funds, some equities (maybe dipping your toe into emerging markets for the long haul), property, bonds etc. Your choice, whatever you believe matches your appetite for risk..

Personally, I've stuck with equities over the last few years, some emerging markets, some UK smaller companies, some absolute returns and done fairly well without (at least in my eyes) incurring too much risk.
However, if you're after a true 'safe haven' then deposit account is best - Investec do some decent ones that take the average interest rate paid across the top 5 accounts on a regular basis and will pay you that. Saves you having to think about it. However, if you want anything other than a small(ish) return, you are going to have to introduce some risk - and the best way is to diversify against this as mentioned above.

UV
ps I am not an IFA so cannot comment on your situation!

[Mankers]

Wealth managers and financial advisors have gone through some changes in the uk of late. The Fsa has made changes and advisors have had to requalify or be at a higher level than what was previously required. In effect the industry is less maverick and the client is better protected. You may have a problem setting up a relationship with such a relative small amount (no disrespect intended) gbp500k is the min amount we entertain where I work. With all the increased regulation banks are now forced to work under, servicing client accounts and offering advice is getting more and more expensive. You mentioned gold before, there are many ways to hold, either physical, through an etf or even traded through an fx in a margin account. Personally I don't think gold is your answer here.

Edited to add. I am a qualified wealth manager, without completing a comprehensive risk profile the answers to what you seek will not be easy to find I am afraid.

Edited by Mankers on Saturday 16th March 22:03

[sunbeam alpine]

Thanks for your replies.

Mankers - I'm not insulted - I've no delusions of wealth

I'm quite seriously thinking of withdrawing my money on Monday - when I bought this house it came with a massive safe which the previous owner didn't/couldn't take with him (he had also acquired it from the previous owner of the house for the same reason!

Other than checking I'm adequately insured, are there any other down sides to this plan?

[Steffan]

This is a real problem and I have every sympathy for the prudent question as to how to protect yourself.

There are clearly structural problems within the Euro. However thus far the printing of Billions by the ECB has held the value of the Euro up. It is very difficult to see how this can continue in the light of the Cyprus tax decision. Control of their economy has passed away from the electorate, in Cyprus Once they realise this I suspect, not for long. But the EU do have massive power and no morals whatsoever. They may throw billions away trying to keep their trick up.

I have been recommending Canadian Dollars as a safe have for some years. I still think that economy with massive untouched reserves and huge untapped resources, stable government and relative security is a good choice. Nothing is certain in life but I do believe that some form of crunch in Europe is inevitable. But frankly with financial consequences at this scale protecting yourself is not easy.

[Mankers]

What yield are you getting with your current deposit account ? Inflation risk is the obvious issue you have. If you are gaining interest at present this can help offset Inflation risk. You are holding € but also have Gbp interest so you have fx risk. Long term I would expect to see Gbp strengthen against the €, there is risk here for you also.

[sunbeam alpine]

Mankers, I recognise every single word in that sentence as english, but I don't understand it at all!

Regarding the interest I get - yes its the square root of f-all - but I'm more worried about an EU cash grab than anything else.

Are you suggesting I move some money to the UK?

I forgot - I opened an ISA last year when the Post Office stopped doing a savings account I had, so I could maybe pay some into that. I think there's a maximum amount per year I can pay in.

Maybe I should buy another rental property, or pay down/off my existing mortgages?

Steffan - sorry if it's a stupid question, but how would one go about moving money into Canadian Dollars?

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Saturday 16th March 22:29

[Steffan]

sunbeam alpine said:

Mankers, I recognise every single word in that sentence as english, but I don't understand it at all!

Regarding the interest I get - yes its the square root of f-all - but I'm more worried about an EU cash grab than anything else.

Are you suggesting I move some money to the UK?

I forgot - I opened an ISA last year when the Post Office stopped doing a savings account I had, so I could maybe pay some into that. I think there's a maximum amount per year I can pay in.

Maybe I should buy another rental property, or pay down/off my existing mortgages?

Steffan - sorry if it's a stupid question, but how would one go about moving money into Canadian Dollars?

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Saturday 16th March 22:29

I am a retired Chartered Accountant. There are a whole variety of ways to achieve that goal all of which have taxation implications and cost implications. Clearly you need the advice of an offshore financial consultant. I assume you are currently offshore. I assume you already have appropriate offshore advisers.

There are many ways to achieve this, just as there are many ways to exist offshore. You need to be aware of the remittances problem of passing money around the world. I strongly recommend you obtain advice from an appropriate offshore firm specialising in such activity. You need specific advice relating to your specific personal circumstances.

[sunbeam alpine]

Steffan said:

I am a retired Chartered Accountant. There are a whole variety of ways to achieve that goal all of which have taxation implications and cost implications. Clearly you need the advice of an offshore financial consultant. I assume you are currently offshore. I assume you already have appropriate offshore advisers.

There are many ways to achieve this, just as there are many ways to exist offshore. You need to be aware of the remittances problem of passing money around the world. I strongly recommend you obtain advice from an appropriate offshore firm specialising in such activity. You need specific advice relating to your specific personal circumstances.

I work in Belgium - paid in Euros. Pay tax here (ouch)

I have no offshore advisors, appropriate or otherwise.

Any suggestions welcome.

[Steffan]

sunbeam alpine said:

Steffan said:

I am a retired Chartered Accountant. There are a whole variety of ways to achieve that goal all of which have taxation implications and cost implications. Clearly you need the advice of an offshore financial consultant. I assume you are currently offshore. I assume you already have appropriate offshore advisers.

There are many ways to achieve this, just as there are many ways to exist offshore. You need to be aware of the remittances problem of passing money around the world. I strongly recommend you obtain advice from an appropriate offshore firm specialising in such activity. You need specific advice relating to your specific personal circumstances.

I work in Belgium - paid in Euros. Pay tax here (ouch)

I have no offshore advisors, appropriate or otherwise.

Any suggestions welcome.

You have my suggestions. You need specific advice relating to the specific investments you want to make. I do believe that Canadian Dollars are a fair investment. Good luck to you.

[sunbeam alpine]

Steffan said:

You have my suggestions..

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I meant any good recommendations - companies specialising in this. Google throws up loads of web sites, some of which look like they were designed by a child. I only know the banks over here, and they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory recently.

I'm not over here working for a big multinational or part of the euro gravy train (I work in agriculture).

[DSLiverpool]

Why not pay off some of your uk mortgage ?

[Steffan]

DSLiverpool said:

Why not pay off some of your uk mortgage ?

If you have borrowed money that has to be good advice. Securing your home must be the first essential. Move on from there.

[Lawrence5]

I work in a trust company in Jersey - we have a network of London based advisors and do a lot with UK ex-pats.

Private message me if you want some details.

[QROPS]

I work for an expat IFA company in Luxembourg, please feel free to drop me a pm.

[DSLiverpool]

sunbeam alpine said:

I'm British, currently based (working) in Belgium. By living a fairly sober and careful life I've managed to save a bit, and also have a couple of properties in the UK which I currently rent out. My financial assets in the UK are in total under £10000 and the 2 houses I rent out are houses I lived in then later rented out after moving for work, so my total UK income isn't enough to pay tax - I'm still paying off the mortgages.

?

I am wary of any IFA as they need money out of you and seldom are your and their best interests the same. I cannot think why anyone wouldn't tell you to overpay your uk mortgage as this is a higher cost than any gain investing.

Let me know what your advised.

[Sideways Rich]

Lawrence5 said:

I work in a trust company in Jersey - we have a network of London based advisors and do a lot with UK ex-pats.

Private message me if you want some details.

Would be interested in a chat, working in Singapore. Please feel free to PM me.