Starting a company - Do I need an accountant?
Discussion
As per the title, I have a small business venture I am going to try.
I wish to set up a company to do so (ltd). Looking on the Companies House website the information they ask for appears very straightforward.
So, do I need an accountant who wants 200 plus VAT to set up the company or can I just pay the £15 to Companies House online and do the same job?
I wish to set up a company to do so (ltd). Looking on the Companies House website the information they ask for appears very straightforward.
So, do I need an accountant who wants 200 plus VAT to set up the company or can I just pay the £15 to Companies House online and do the same job?
you can do it but then is it worth the hassle?
Thats the question.
Are you just registering the company or are you then going to VAT register it, put it on the flat rate scheme, fill out the webfiles docs, prove everything to companies house and HMRC?
I prefer to pay the extra and let the accountant do the rest.
I have set them up both ways and gave the accountant the job of setting up the company 1/2 through me trying it... too much crap and its not written in english for the normal person.
Thats the question.
Are you just registering the company or are you then going to VAT register it, put it on the flat rate scheme, fill out the webfiles docs, prove everything to companies house and HMRC?
I prefer to pay the extra and let the accountant do the rest.
I have set them up both ways and gave the accountant the job of setting up the company 1/2 through me trying it... too much crap and its not written in english for the normal person.
Du1point8 said:
you can do it but then is it worth the hassle?
Thats the question.
Are you just registering the company or are you then going to VAT register it, put it on the flat rate scheme, fill out the webfiles docs, prove everything to companies house and HMRC?
I prefer to pay the extra and let the accountant do the rest.
I have set them up both ways and gave the accountant the job of setting up the company 1/2 through me trying it... too much crap and its not written in english for the normal person.
Can I use you in in my promo materials??Thats the question.
Are you just registering the company or are you then going to VAT register it, put it on the flat rate scheme, fill out the webfiles docs, prove everything to companies house and HMRC?
I prefer to pay the extra and let the accountant do the rest.
I have set them up both ways and gave the accountant the job of setting up the company 1/2 through me trying it... too much crap and its not written in english for the normal person.
David
Jasandjules said:
As per the title, I have a small business venture I am going to try.
I wish to set up a company to do so (ltd). Looking on the Companies House website the information they ask for appears very straightforward.
So, do I need an accountant who wants 200 plus VAT to set up the company or can I just pay the £15 to Companies House online and do the same job?
I have sent you a PM.I wish to set up a company to do so (ltd). Looking on the Companies House website the information they ask for appears very straightforward.
So, do I need an accountant who wants 200 plus VAT to set up the company or can I just pay the £15 to Companies House online and do the same job?
David
Ta.
Well, I am not too worried about some of it (setting out share values and capital etc) but as I don't know who needs to know about the company and so on nor do I know if Companies House tells me who needs to know when I create a company, I don't know what I might need to know, IYFSWIM...
Thanks for the PM too, will talk to the OH, as she wants someone ideally within a 10 min drive of us (as will use accountant as registered office and collect the odd letter from there too potentially).
Well, I am not too worried about some of it (setting out share values and capital etc) but as I don't know who needs to know about the company and so on nor do I know if Companies House tells me who needs to know when I create a company, I don't know what I might need to know, IYFSWIM...
Thanks for the PM too, will talk to the OH, as she wants someone ideally within a 10 min drive of us (as will use accountant as registered office and collect the odd letter from there too potentially).
There are a number of regulations and requirements to running your own company, and claiming ignorance in failing to meet one of the obligations is generally not a good enough excuse.
Like so many things, you could do it yourself in much the same way that you could service a car yourself or represent yourself in court, but it's generally easier to just pay someone who knows what they're doing.
So, no, you don't *need* an accountant but one is strongly advised.
Edit: Sorry, I misread the OP. You're only talking about setting it up. In that case an accountant isn't quite so important but as soon as you start actually trading then my post is relevant.
Like so many things, you could do it yourself in much the same way that you could service a car yourself or represent yourself in court, but it's generally easier to just pay someone who knows what they're doing.
So, no, you don't *need* an accountant but one is strongly advised.
Edit: Sorry, I misread the OP. You're only talking about setting it up. In that case an accountant isn't quite so important but as soon as you start actually trading then my post is relevant.
we've had an accountant since day 1.
He came recommended to us. He is not cheap but he seems to be good.
We sort out all the day to day stuff ourselves but let him do the end of year etc.
Well worth the money. So far he has saved us more than he has cost us and it is very handy to have a good (but far from free!) line of advice for some of the trickier bits or more "what if" thoughts. He also ensures that we don't attract fines and the like from de gubbermint, which in itself, although an unknown quantity, is well worth having.
If you're serious about running a business, then you should have a decent accountant IMHO
He came recommended to us. He is not cheap but he seems to be good.
We sort out all the day to day stuff ourselves but let him do the end of year etc.
Well worth the money. So far he has saved us more than he has cost us and it is very handy to have a good (but far from free!) line of advice for some of the trickier bits or more "what if" thoughts. He also ensures that we don't attract fines and the like from de gubbermint, which in itself, although an unknown quantity, is well worth having.
If you're serious about running a business, then you should have a decent accountant IMHO
scdan4 said:
we've had an accountant since day 1.
He came recommended to us. He is not cheap but he seems to be good.
We sort out all the day to day stuff ourselves but let him do the end of year etc.
Well worth the money. So far he has saved us more than he has cost us and it is very handy to have a good (but far from free!) line of advice for some of the trickier bits or more "what if" thoughts. He also ensures that we don't attract fines and the like from de gubbermint, which in itself, although an unknown quantity, is well worth having.
If you're serious about running a business, then you should have a decent accountant IMHO
Good commercial advice. The bureaucracy of government creates a lot of form filling and requirements that are best sorted by accountants who love this work. Perhaps the driest meetings I have ever attended took place between between accountants and the Revenue. Sahara desert is an Oasis in comparison. Businessmen should concentrated on running their business and seeking new directions and markets for the business. Accountants assist in enabling that to happen.He came recommended to us. He is not cheap but he seems to be good.
We sort out all the day to day stuff ourselves but let him do the end of year etc.
Well worth the money. So far he has saved us more than he has cost us and it is very handy to have a good (but far from free!) line of advice for some of the trickier bits or more "what if" thoughts. He also ensures that we don't attract fines and the like from de gubbermint, which in itself, although an unknown quantity, is well worth having.
If you're serious about running a business, then you should have a decent accountant IMHO
I had what I thought was an accountant, but turned out to be a bulls
tting idiot, from day 5.
After 18 months I took the step of finding someone else who is pretty good.
What I did learn from the idiot, is that it pays to do your own research, check what you are told, against the HMRC's brilliant website information.
First guy would tell me I should could do certain things which when I checked was a loop hole that had been closed about 50 years ago. (so I didn't)
We (me and my employee) set the ltd company up, applied for VAT registration, applied for flat rate Vat scheme, set up as an employer, (only employing 2 people, one is me, and the other is part time and my wife), she does the PAYE submission, VAT submissions, payment runs, and keeps simple books on excel.
Accountant, checks what we have done, tells us how to fix it, and does the official submission.
tting idiot, from day 5. After 18 months I took the step of finding someone else who is pretty good.
What I did learn from the idiot, is that it pays to do your own research, check what you are told, against the HMRC's brilliant website information.
First guy would tell me I should could do certain things which when I checked was a loop hole that had been closed about 50 years ago. (so I didn't)
We (me and my employee) set the ltd company up, applied for VAT registration, applied for flat rate Vat scheme, set up as an employer, (only employing 2 people, one is me, and the other is part time and my wife), she does the PAYE submission, VAT submissions, payment runs, and keeps simple books on excel.
Accountant, checks what we have done, tells us how to fix it, and does the official submission.
Well I decided that I would rather pay someone local to me to make sure I don't miss anything (and I rather imagine any Govt Agency fines will be greater than the cost of the accountant) so he has been instructed to set up the company.
I must confess as above, this one has advised some things which appear to differ from HMRC Guidelines, I am not sure if he knows case law/loopholes etc.... Difficult to know what to do about that!
I must confess as above, this one has advised some things which appear to differ from HMRC Guidelines, I am not sure if he knows case law/loopholes etc.... Difficult to know what to do about that!
Steffan said:
Businessmen should concentrated on running their business and seeking new directions and markets for the business. Accountants assist in enabling that to happen.
Exactly my view. I watched my Dad run his own business and struggle to get his head around areas with which he could spend hours becoming familiar at the expense of wasting time he could have spent on his core business which didn't require him learning from scratch. I watched as he didn't keep pace with regulatory updates, case law changes, HMRC changes, HSE changes etc etc. So each time he would either be at risk of falling foul, or failing to take advantage of beneficial changes to the system. Either that, or essentially he would have to learn from scratch once again.
By the time he retired he would advocate no one should ever even attempt to run their own small business based upon the hurdles that he himself felt were ever increasing and time consuming.
He was amazed at the ease with which my brother ran his own business by contrast. His view was far more simplistic. If his time was more valuable than that of an expert in a necessary chosen field, he would outsource that element and gain from it. Everything was outsourced, from premises, accountancy, PR, marketing, legal etc. His core business was political strategy and he could focus on that, and that alone. His hourly rate was far greater than any of the outsourced contractors who were all experts within their fields sorting compliance and the best results for him in any chosen areas.
When it was my turn, I ignored my Dad's advice..
Jasandjules said:
Well I decided that I would rather pay someone local to me to make sure I don't miss anything (and I rather imagine any Govt Agency fines will be greater than the cost of the accountant) so he has been instructed to set up the company.
I must confess as above, this one has advised some things which appear to differ from HMRC Guidelines, I am not sure if he knows case law/loopholes etc.... Difficult to know what to do about that!
From limited experience, they're all like that. I must confess as above, this one has advised some things which appear to differ from HMRC Guidelines, I am not sure if he knows case law/loopholes etc.... Difficult to know what to do about that!
The one man band I went to wanted to be very officious and follow badges of trade tests to a T, VAT registration, every receipt, extremely strict guidelines on usage of equipment.
The firm I'm now using hasn't been bothered about any of the above but is concentrating on getting the main things sorted and being cost effective.
One of my friends was talking to me how good his accountant (used him for 10 years) is and what I was doing with mine since I was a new start up at the time.
I had made the effort of reading around and told him about FRS (flat rate) and said I was going to do that straight away.
Was a bit surprised when friend asked what it was and why was I doing it. Turns out said friend would have been mid 5 figures better off if his own accountant had put him on the scheme...
The reason he didnt, the accountant thought that as an IT contractor, my friend would save more money from buying 'tech and software' as thats what his job was, didnt realise he would never spend that amount of money and wasnt spending that amount anyway and trying to claim the VAT back.
Was funny watching his face after I explained it all and that was including the pros and cons.
I had made the effort of reading around and told him about FRS (flat rate) and said I was going to do that straight away.
Was a bit surprised when friend asked what it was and why was I doing it. Turns out said friend would have been mid 5 figures better off if his own accountant had put him on the scheme...
The reason he didnt, the accountant thought that as an IT contractor, my friend would save more money from buying 'tech and software' as thats what his job was, didnt realise he would never spend that amount of money and wasnt spending that amount anyway and trying to claim the VAT back.
Was funny watching his face after I explained it all and that was including the pros and cons.
Du1point8 said:
The reason he didnt, the accountant thought that as an IT contractor, my friend would save more money from buying 'tech and software' as thats what his job was, didnt realise he would never spend that amount of money and wasnt spending that amount anyway and trying to claim the VAT back.
I can sympathise. I've been meaning to go onto FRS for years as deep down I know I will be better off. I even have the figures to prove it. It's just nice to be able to claim VAT back when you do make purchases though. (Yes, I know that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever)
JonRB said:
Du1point8 said:
The reason he didnt, the accountant thought that as an IT contractor, my friend would save more money from buying 'tech and software' as thats what his job was, didnt realise he would never spend that amount of money and wasnt spending that amount anyway and trying to claim the VAT back.
I can sympathise. I've been meaning to go onto FRS for years as deep down I know I will be better off. I even have the figures to prove it. It's just nice to be able to claim VAT back when you do make purchases though. (Yes, I know that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever)
I told you about that ages ago and thought you were going straight to your accountant when I explained how much you would gain... BTW the above was not about you, just in case you thought it was.
JonRB said:
I can sympathise. I've been meaning to go onto FRS for years as deep down I know I will be better off. I even have the figures to prove it. It's just nice to be able to claim VAT back when you do make purchases though.
(Yes, I know that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever)
I have a proposal for you - without knowing the figures involved, I will apply and get you the FRS registration and you give me 50% of the first years savings.(Yes, I know that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever)
Deal or no deal??
David
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