Selling shares not in my name?
Discussion
Mum died a couple of years ago and left me a bunch of shares in various companies registered with different registrars.
Most of the physical certificates are in her name, but the registrars have me on file as being the owner of said shares and are making the dividend cheques out to <mum's name deceased, executor me>, so legally I am the owner of these shares and the registrars/companies know this.
As far as I am aware I have two options to sell; 1. sell them via the registrar's own dealing service at extortionate commission rates or 2. sell them via someone like X-O.co.uk who charge a far more reasonable flat fee per trade.
However, as I understand it, in order for someone like X-O.co.uk to sell these shares, they need the physical certificates to be in my name, and that means a whole load of faffing around with paperwork for each individual shareholding getting them physically transferred into my name.
Have I got that right or is there something I'm missing? It just seems ridiculous that a registrar such as Equiniti or Capita can't issue all the required new certificates via one form/phonecall. I assume this is a relatively small hurdle to try and get me to use their share-dealing service?
So any tips on the above or selling shares generally gratefully received as a complete newcomer to shares.
Most of the physical certificates are in her name, but the registrars have me on file as being the owner of said shares and are making the dividend cheques out to <mum's name deceased, executor me>, so legally I am the owner of these shares and the registrars/companies know this.
As far as I am aware I have two options to sell; 1. sell them via the registrar's own dealing service at extortionate commission rates or 2. sell them via someone like X-O.co.uk who charge a far more reasonable flat fee per trade.
However, as I understand it, in order for someone like X-O.co.uk to sell these shares, they need the physical certificates to be in my name, and that means a whole load of faffing around with paperwork for each individual shareholding getting them physically transferred into my name.
Have I got that right or is there something I'm missing? It just seems ridiculous that a registrar such as Equiniti or Capita can't issue all the required new certificates via one form/phonecall. I assume this is a relatively small hurdle to try and get me to use their share-dealing service?
So any tips on the above or selling shares generally gratefully received as a complete newcomer to shares.
Yep, probate granted, everything now owned by me.
It's just in order to get the physical certificates in my name, which I need if I use another broker other than the registrar themselves, they want a whole bunch of forms filling in for EACH holding. They don't seem to be able to change all of mum's holdings, which are registered on their system as belonging to me, into my name on the physical certificates with just one form/phonecall. Seems a bit ridiculous that in 2015 I have to fill out a separate bloody form for each holding, even though they're registered with the same registrar.
I had a similar conversation with them when I was trying to find all the shares mum held. They couldn't just do a search of their system and tell me what shares were registered to her (unusual, one-of-a-kind) name; I had to give them either specific account numbers or pay VAST sums of money for someone to trawl their entire system and check. Like they can't just type a name into a computer and it pops up with all holdings registered to that name?! Seems a bit archaic is all.
It's just in order to get the physical certificates in my name, which I need if I use another broker other than the registrar themselves, they want a whole bunch of forms filling in for EACH holding. They don't seem to be able to change all of mum's holdings, which are registered on their system as belonging to me, into my name on the physical certificates with just one form/phonecall. Seems a bit ridiculous that in 2015 I have to fill out a separate bloody form for each holding, even though they're registered with the same registrar.
I had a similar conversation with them when I was trying to find all the shares mum held. They couldn't just do a search of their system and tell me what shares were registered to her (unusual, one-of-a-kind) name; I had to give them either specific account numbers or pay VAST sums of money for someone to trawl their entire system and check. Like they can't just type a name into a computer and it pops up with all holdings registered to that name?! Seems a bit archaic is all.
If it helps, I'm not impressed with these intermediary companies either. I suppose the actual companies sub it out because they can't be bothered?
I can understand why they won't rename/re-issue shares on a phone call; too easy for fraud. So I think jumping through hoops is the only way.
I can understand why they won't rename/re-issue shares on a phone call; too easy for fraud. So I think jumping through hoops is the only way.
Simpo Two said:
If it helps, I'm not impressed with these intermediary companies either. I suppose the actual companies sub it out because they can't be bothered?
I can understand why they won't rename/re-issue shares on a phone call; too easy for fraud. So I think jumping through hoops is the only way.
That's just it though; they have already acknowledged my ownership of the shares because I sent them the death certificate/probate etc, and they are now paying the dividends to me. They have confirmed that I am named on their system as the owner of these shares, it's just they won't issue the actual paper certificates in my name without filling in lots of paperwork for each holding! As I said, for 2015, it's bloody ridiculous.I can understand why they won't rename/re-issue shares on a phone call; too easy for fraud. So I think jumping through hoops is the only way.
Let's be clear here. You are not the "owner" of the shares in your own right until you register an original copy of the grant of probate with the Registrar and have the shares reregistered in your own name as beneficiary. The shares are registered in the your name as Executor of your mother's estate pending grant of probate. Once you have the grant of probate, you are then in a position to instruct the Registrar to do whatever has to be done in order to carry out your mother's instructions as per her will.
You could sell the shares via a third party stock broker if you send in an original share cert in your late mother's name or ideally an amended certificate with your details as executor noted. Plus you will need a signed crest transfer form and an original grant of probate. The cheque for the proceeds would be payable to the Executor of your mother's estate. Then the Exor pays those monies to the beneficiary i.e. you pay yourself from your executor's account.
Selling certificated holdings from outside crest (electronic paperless system) is a pain and does require additional paperwork which takes time to process thus making the process more expensive.
This is my understanding of the process but double check first with whatever broker you intend to use but I think it would be easier to deal directly with the Registrar. What charges have you been quoted?
You could sell the shares via a third party stock broker if you send in an original share cert in your late mother's name or ideally an amended certificate with your details as executor noted. Plus you will need a signed crest transfer form and an original grant of probate. The cheque for the proceeds would be payable to the Executor of your mother's estate. Then the Exor pays those monies to the beneficiary i.e. you pay yourself from your executor's account.
Selling certificated holdings from outside crest (electronic paperless system) is a pain and does require additional paperwork which takes time to process thus making the process more expensive.
This is my understanding of the process but double check first with whatever broker you intend to use but I think it would be easier to deal directly with the Registrar. What charges have you been quoted?
jfbrin said:
Let's be clear here. You are not the "owner" of the shares in your own right until you register an original copy of the grant of probate with the Registrar and have the shares reregistered in your own name as beneficiary. The shares are registered in the your name as Executor of your mother's estate pending grant of probate. Once you have the grant of probate, you are then in a position to instruct the Registrar to do whatever has to be done in order to carry out your mother's instructions as per her will.
Hmmmm, interesting. I received probate a while ago but don't recall if I've sent that to the registrars. I think I may have done though since they're sending me the dividend cheques...? I do recall speaking to one of them on the phone and them confirming that I am on their system as being the owner.jfbrin said:
You could sell the shares via a third party stock broker if you send in an original share cert in your late mother's name or ideally an amended certificate with your details as executor noted. Plus you will need a signed crest transfer form and an original grant of probate. The cheque for the proceeds would be payable to the Executor of your mother's estate. Then the Exor pays those monies to the beneficiary i.e. you pay yourself from your executor's account.
Selling certificated holdings from outside crest (electronic paperless system) is a pain and does require additional paperwork which takes time to process thus making the process more expensive.
This is my understanding of the process but double check first with whatever broker you intend to use but I think it would be easier to deal directly with the Registrar. What charges have you been quoted?
Charges range from 0.5% up to around 2% up to a max. of £200ish, which doesn't sound like much, but the amounts we're talking about when compared to someone like x-o.co.uk who charge less than a tenner per trade regardless of value, it feels like I'm being mugged somewhat! Selling certificated holdings from outside crest (electronic paperless system) is a pain and does require additional paperwork which takes time to process thus making the process more expensive.
This is my understanding of the process but double check first with whatever broker you intend to use but I think it would be easier to deal directly with the Registrar. What charges have you been quoted?
Simpo Two said:
Because maybe once they send you the actual share certificates they've lost control/lost their cut?
It's actually for two reasons. Firstly, physical Certs are now archaic and it costs a silly amount of money to manage per client from a registrars perspective.
Secondly, it is good to see the registrars doing this 100% correctly re the assignment of title.
The person elected as executor is very often not the sole recipient under probate. Further more, holdings are often either split between beneficiaries or individual holdings allocated.
Add to this that in all likely hood you are not looking at one cert per stock but one cert per shape. So there could be hundreds of certs potentially if the holdings were long term. Especially if divis were taken as script.
The key here is to never underestimate the sheer number of aunts, uncles, brothers or sisters who attempt to rip off family members over inheritances. It is shockingly common. Infact, you would refer to it as the norm!!
Post probate, every holding must be dealt with separately.
One area I would look at is while executor to place all Certs into CREST and do away with physical Certs. No discount broker wants physical paper and if you try to deliver Certs they will bill you more than the registrar's dealing desk for the transfer.
Get them electronic. Get probate sorted for each holding. Open a discount a/c. Transfer holdings electronically. Sell.
For ex only you don't need to pay more than £5-£10 per trans. One of the reputable online broker will always have an offer on trying to get some business in.
IG have just launched physical dealing so probably have an offer. Iii usually have one as they are in a client fight with Halifax.
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