Discussion
My dad died unexpectedly on the 24th December just gone; 3.5m ago, my stepmum is the executor of his will.
Now as of so far there has been no mention at all of his will directly to either myself or my sister, my stepmum; dads wife of 5 years at point of his death, however has mentioned it to my wife; namely that she is unable to find a revised one that she thinks was done in 2013, to make sure that she was looked after in the event of his death.
The problem is I recall my dad talking to me last year; on numerous occasions, saying that he must sort the will to make sure my stepmum is taken care of, the fact that stepmum told the wife it was revised in; she thinks 2013, and my dad spoke to me in 2014 about it would suggest that there is probably no revised will, also being the executor one would assume that my stepmum would know where the revised will was, however she only has the one prior to the revision.
It has been coming up to 4 months now since his death, I haven't broached the subject to my stepmum, she hasn't mentioined it too me, we see each other regularly, she talks to me as if she is staying in the house; decorating, new kitchen, sorting the garden etc, howevwer when she talks to my wife she gives hints about possibly moving, her mum will look after her etc.
I know that there is a stack of relatively new looking paperwork building up in the house which is to do with my dads affairs and it looks largely untouched; just a steadily growing pile, but I also know she has been going through his old filed paperwork and chucking out irrelevant documents; my dad never threw anything away.
I don't think that appointing my step mum as the executor was the best thing to do; she is a glass half empty person, has a history of depression and struggles massively with issues past and present and struggles to cope; as she is doing with my dad's death, she has only just gone back to work last week and I get the distinct impression; as does the wife, that she is burying her head in the sand regarding finding the revised will; which I don't think exists, I can't begin to imagine what she is going through and how she is feeling about the prospect and realisation that there isn't a revised will.
So after all that spiel above, does there come a point where movement has to happen and things have to be done regarding a will, if so what happens, how does it happen and who does it, or can it just drag on for years in the hope that the revised will is found and meanwhile everyone is in limbo and making comments behind the scenes.
Now as of so far there has been no mention at all of his will directly to either myself or my sister, my stepmum; dads wife of 5 years at point of his death, however has mentioned it to my wife; namely that she is unable to find a revised one that she thinks was done in 2013, to make sure that she was looked after in the event of his death.
The problem is I recall my dad talking to me last year; on numerous occasions, saying that he must sort the will to make sure my stepmum is taken care of, the fact that stepmum told the wife it was revised in; she thinks 2013, and my dad spoke to me in 2014 about it would suggest that there is probably no revised will, also being the executor one would assume that my stepmum would know where the revised will was, however she only has the one prior to the revision.
It has been coming up to 4 months now since his death, I haven't broached the subject to my stepmum, she hasn't mentioined it too me, we see each other regularly, she talks to me as if she is staying in the house; decorating, new kitchen, sorting the garden etc, howevwer when she talks to my wife she gives hints about possibly moving, her mum will look after her etc.
I know that there is a stack of relatively new looking paperwork building up in the house which is to do with my dads affairs and it looks largely untouched; just a steadily growing pile, but I also know she has been going through his old filed paperwork and chucking out irrelevant documents; my dad never threw anything away.
I don't think that appointing my step mum as the executor was the best thing to do; she is a glass half empty person, has a history of depression and struggles massively with issues past and present and struggles to cope; as she is doing with my dad's death, she has only just gone back to work last week and I get the distinct impression; as does the wife, that she is burying her head in the sand regarding finding the revised will; which I don't think exists, I can't begin to imagine what she is going through and how she is feeling about the prospect and realisation that there isn't a revised will.
So after all that spiel above, does there come a point where movement has to happen and things have to be done regarding a will, if so what happens, how does it happen and who does it, or can it just drag on for years in the hope that the revised will is found and meanwhile everyone is in limbo and making comments behind the scenes.
Edited by HTP99 on Tuesday 7th April 09:37
Firstly, i'm sorry about your dad. I went thorough the same thing last year.
It does sound as though she is burying her head in the sand. I think the time has come to have a proper sit down conversation about the situation. Obviously, you'll need to be sensitive, and it depends on what sort of person she is, but she may actually be vary glad of the help. My step mum has really really struggled over the last 12 months and has needed her hand holding at every step of the way. To this day, I don't think she really understands how everything around the will actually works, her eyes seem to just glaze over when we talk about it. Though luckily, it was easier for me as we were both executors, so I was able to take the lead and get things going.
Was the will done through a solicitor? If so, they should be able to confirm whether there was a revised will. If you have questions, if may well be worth making an appointment with a local solicitor in order to go through the stages of what needs doing, might put everybody's mind at rest.
It does sound as though she is burying her head in the sand. I think the time has come to have a proper sit down conversation about the situation. Obviously, you'll need to be sensitive, and it depends on what sort of person she is, but she may actually be vary glad of the help. My step mum has really really struggled over the last 12 months and has needed her hand holding at every step of the way. To this day, I don't think she really understands how everything around the will actually works, her eyes seem to just glaze over when we talk about it. Though luckily, it was easier for me as we were both executors, so I was able to take the lead and get things going.
Was the will done through a solicitor? If so, they should be able to confirm whether there was a revised will. If you have questions, if may well be worth making an appointment with a local solicitor in order to go through the stages of what needs doing, might put everybody's mind at rest.
Inkyfingers said:
Was the will done through a solicitor? If so, they should be able to confirm whether there was a revised will.
That would be my first answer too. But after that, if no Will can be found, then it's too bad, the last known one is valid. But I think there is something - deed of variation perhaps - that can be employed to allow a spouse to get a share if not mentioned. Whether it can be sorted out amicably/cheaply is another matter.On the work piling up, there's no reason why you can't step in and do the donkey work; all your stepmother has to do then is sign at the bottom. There may well be insurance policies that need to be claimed on.
Presumably if nothing's been added up there's no tax sorted out or Probate applied for?
Simpo Two said:
Presumably if nothing's been added up there's no tax sorted out or Probate applied for?
I would assume as if she is holding out for the revised will, then death duty will be vastly different if everything goes to her as opposed to myself and my sister; double the threshold if she is left the vast majority I believe, I do know that she has had the house valued though, so I guess she is waiting until the revised will appears or she realises that there is no revised will until valuing the estate starts to happen, however I have sold his car on her behalf and given her the money.I would also assume as my stepmum is the executor she would know who the solicitor was who was dealing with the will; if a solicitor had been appointed to look after a copy, the fact they she knew exactly where the current will was and also has a copy would make one assume that the revised will would be in the same place.
She is away until Monday, I think I will have a chat with her when she gets back.
Is there a time limit on having things put into place and getting the ball rolloing or can this waiting drag on for years?
If there is no Will how does your stepmother know she's an Executor?
You also have to ask how long does it take to establish whether there is a later Will. Ask the solicitor... ask other local ones just in case... ask friends... search the house from top to bottom. That's about it I think.
It's important to realise that until Probate is granted the Estate (ie all your father's worldly posessions in limbo) is a separate legal entity, like a limited company. You sold the car but you gave the Estate the money, not your stepmother. All monies must be accounted for and if an Executor plays silly buggers they can go to jail - as a relative of mine is in process of doing right now.
I don't know what the time limit is but eventually HMRC will want its paws on the tax, and of course nobody can do anything officially with the contents of the Estate until Probate is granted.
Here's hoping you can help her get it sorted out speedily and with no problems.
You also have to ask how long does it take to establish whether there is a later Will. Ask the solicitor... ask other local ones just in case... ask friends... search the house from top to bottom. That's about it I think.
It's important to realise that until Probate is granted the Estate (ie all your father's worldly posessions in limbo) is a separate legal entity, like a limited company. You sold the car but you gave the Estate the money, not your stepmother. All monies must be accounted for and if an Executor plays silly buggers they can go to jail - as a relative of mine is in process of doing right now.
I don't know what the time limit is but eventually HMRC will want its paws on the tax, and of course nobody can do anything officially with the contents of the Estate until Probate is granted.
Here's hoping you can help her get it sorted out speedily and with no problems.
As said, the will stipulates who the executor is. Do you think she is hiding the revised will? Do you know the solicitor who dealt with the 'previous' will?
Where they legally married? If so there is no inheritance tax to pay if all your father's estate goes to his wife. Does she have any children?
Where they legally married? If so there is no inheritance tax to pay if all your father's estate goes to his wife. Does she have any children?
megaphone said:
As said, the will stipulates who the executor is. Do you think she is hiding the revised will? Do you know the solicitor who dealt with the 'previous' will?
Where they legally married? If so there is no inheritance tax to pay if all your father's estate goes to his wife. Does she have any children?
I don't think there is any reason to hide a revised will as as far as I am aware; from conversations with my dad, he was going to do a revised will to make sure she was looked after, so one would assume if there was a revised will then it would be in her favour, hence why; as far as I know, she is still looking for it.Where they legally married? If so there is no inheritance tax to pay if all your father's estate goes to his wife. Does she have any children?
Haven't a clue who the solictor would be.
Yes they were legally married.
She has an only son who we all get on well with.
The executors only have six months from the date of death to pay any inheritance tax (IHT) due, so the head-in-sand approach is perhaps not a good choice. HMRC starts then to charge interest. And you can't get a grant of probate (so you may have no way legally to sell a house or investments that are in your late father's name) without completing the IHT forms and paying the tax. You can ask HMRC for time to pay if there's no cash available.
If the house was in both spouses' names as 'joint tenants', it will have passed automatically to your stepmother on death. If it was solely in your late father's name, or he and your stepmother were 'tenants in common' (in a nutshell, in legally separate shares) the executor needs probate before anything can be done with it. In either case, someone who knows what they are doing needs to tell the Land Registry on the appropriate form.
If you need professional help, be aware that probate administration is a regulated activity, so the solicitor who drew up the will could be a good starting point.
If the house was in both spouses' names as 'joint tenants', it will have passed automatically to your stepmother on death. If it was solely in your late father's name, or he and your stepmother were 'tenants in common' (in a nutshell, in legally separate shares) the executor needs probate before anything can be done with it. In either case, someone who knows what they are doing needs to tell the Land Registry on the appropriate form.
If you need professional help, be aware that probate administration is a regulated activity, so the solicitor who drew up the will could be a good starting point.
It sounds like she's floundering and stalling as she slowly comes to terms with not only the loss of her partner, but the reality that he died before taking the steps to protect her in such a situation.
Your next move is certainly to progress things by having an open and calm chat. Do so with another person present, possibly on both sides. If it ends in a total break down at least you have someone else to back you up.
In her position she really ought to be reassuring you that you can work through things together in an amicable way, covering the last known will as well as your father's unwritten wishes to protect her.
If a re-written will doesn't exist (which, let's face it, it doesn't) then what would your course of action be if you were presumably left his entire estate? It is likely to be her fear of what that may be, which is keeping her from accepting that there is no will.
Would you fulfill any reasonable wishes of your father's even if it was simply her word?
Don't let her previous form and relative mental instability distract you from guarding against her true agenda here. What ever that may be.
Keep us posted.
Your next move is certainly to progress things by having an open and calm chat. Do so with another person present, possibly on both sides. If it ends in a total break down at least you have someone else to back you up.
In her position she really ought to be reassuring you that you can work through things together in an amicable way, covering the last known will as well as your father's unwritten wishes to protect her.
If a re-written will doesn't exist (which, let's face it, it doesn't) then what would your course of action be if you were presumably left his entire estate? It is likely to be her fear of what that may be, which is keeping her from accepting that there is no will.
Would you fulfill any reasonable wishes of your father's even if it was simply her word?
Don't let her previous form and relative mental instability distract you from guarding against her true agenda here. What ever that may be.
Keep us posted.
Edited by Pferdestarke on Tuesday 7th April 20:51
Simpo Two said:
Pferdestarke said:
Don't let her previous form and relative mental instability detract you from guarding against her true agenda here. What ever that may be.
Wise words.Things can really throw a spanner in the works when a step parent is involved.
I want her to be looked after and don't want to see her homeless, problem is if the estate isn't left to her but myself and my sister then a massive chunk of money dissapears as the tax threshold is half; if I understand correctly.
Whilst there would still be a large sum left; using the house alone as I don't know what insurances or other money there is that has been squirelled (sp?) away, it is still a damn site less than if it was all left to her, plus my sister and her haven't got on particularly well until now and also to pay any inheritance tax, chances are the house would have to be sold to cover it, unless there is other money that I'm not aware of.
The more I think about this the more I think you should take the last known Will as valid and, assuming you/your sister are the Executors, take over from here. And after all, we still don't know why she has assumed the role of Executor - because there's nothing on paper that says she is.
I don't know the personalities involved but perhaps you could sell it as 'taking the weight off her mind' etc. I think you need to start taking control, get the inside track and make sure that no more paperwork disappears:
'I also know she has been going through his old filed paperwork and chucking out irrelevant documents'
Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. But if it was me, I'd be on amber alert.
I don't know the personalities involved but perhaps you could sell it as 'taking the weight off her mind' etc. I think you need to start taking control, get the inside track and make sure that no more paperwork disappears:
'I also know she has been going through his old filed paperwork and chucking out irrelevant documents'
Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. But if it was me, I'd be on amber alert.
Another interesting thing that I've just remembered.
My step mum claimed to my wife that she can only find a will from 2011, however she believes; as I've mentioned earlier, that there is a revised version from 2013. What I find odd is, they had already been married for 2 years in 2011 so why would he change it then and then change it again in 2013 to make sure she was looked after, surely a will where you had already been married for two years would be enough to make sure the spouse was looked after, the 2011 will is the will that she claims she is the executor off.
She told my wife that the 2011 will was where my dad amended it to cut my mum out, however they had already been divorced a good six years by then; my dad hated my mum and would have amended any will to take her out, way before then, he wouldn't have kept my mum in a will whilst being married to someone else for 2 years.
The wife has also told my step mum that I believed that there wasn't a revised will; she did this in the early days after my dads death as they were discussing it, the wife said that she hadn't taken any notice of what she said though.
My step mum claimed to my wife that she can only find a will from 2011, however she believes; as I've mentioned earlier, that there is a revised version from 2013. What I find odd is, they had already been married for 2 years in 2011 so why would he change it then and then change it again in 2013 to make sure she was looked after, surely a will where you had already been married for two years would be enough to make sure the spouse was looked after, the 2011 will is the will that she claims she is the executor off.
She told my wife that the 2011 will was where my dad amended it to cut my mum out, however they had already been divorced a good six years by then; my dad hated my mum and would have amended any will to take her out, way before then, he wouldn't have kept my mum in a will whilst being married to someone else for 2 years.
The wife has also told my step mum that I believed that there wasn't a revised will; she did this in the early days after my dads death as they were discussing it, the wife said that she hadn't taken any notice of what she said though.
She is away until next week, however I did a bit of snooping and I found the will that she thinks has been superceded; this one is dated 2010.
I'm not really sure of her issue as this will states that she is to be looked after and all proceeds of the sale of a house go to her to make sure she is housed until there comes a time that it is not required anymore and proceeds are split three ways; myself, my sister and my stepmum.
However the executors are named as my Aunt and Uncle, she told me that she was the executor; perhaps she believes that she is the executor of the revised will (the one that I don't think exists).
I think I will have a chat with my Aunt and Uncle.
Also there are various monies and pensions that she has yet to claim for, perhaps she is waiting until the revised will turns up, there is no mention of these monies in the current will, only that all possesions are passed to her, I guess this includes pensions and death payments.
I'm not really sure of her issue as this will states that she is to be looked after and all proceeds of the sale of a house go to her to make sure she is housed until there comes a time that it is not required anymore and proceeds are split three ways; myself, my sister and my stepmum.
However the executors are named as my Aunt and Uncle, she told me that she was the executor; perhaps she believes that she is the executor of the revised will (the one that I don't think exists).
I think I will have a chat with my Aunt and Uncle.
Also there are various monies and pensions that she has yet to claim for, perhaps she is waiting until the revised will turns up, there is no mention of these monies in the current will, only that all possesions are passed to her, I guess this includes pensions and death payments.
Edited by HTP99 on Saturday 11th April 10:26
It's quite alarming how someone can assume the role of Executor with no evidence or proof that they are. Then again, she doesn't seem to have done much yet other than take the money from the car sale. If the aunt and uncle aren't interested in doing it perhaps they can write a letter delegating the responsibillity to you? That might cover it as things stand, and any action by the 'fake' Executor could be countermanded as you'd have written authority and she wouldn't.
Take a copy of the Will you found because it seems to be the last known version.
Take a copy of the Will you found because it seems to be the last known version.
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