Woodford Fund
Author
Discussion

oldaudi

Original Poster:

1,634 posts

188 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
Looks like we will need to be more patient with the Woodford Patient fund.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/...


Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

276 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
"The fund manager, known for his track record and passion for the biotech sector, has invested about $180 million building a 28 per cent stake in Northwest Biotherapeutics."

What is a "fund" doing owning 28% of anything?

I've avoided his own-named funds (and in part regretted it) simply because of concern that he might start to believe he can walk on water...

BoRED S2upid

21,070 posts

270 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
I'm glad I dodged this one. It sounded a bit too high risk in the first place turns out it's very high risk 55 million is quite a hit.

trickywoo

14,230 posts

260 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
What is a "fund" doing owning 28% of anything?
It won't be 28% in a single fund, rather 28% across all the Woodford funds.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

276 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
trickywoo said:
It won't be 28% in a single fund, rather 28% across all the Woodford funds.
What is a single fund manager doing owning 28% of anything?

trickywoo

14,230 posts

260 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
What is a single fund manager doing owning 28% of anything?
That's a better question and the answer is along the lines of rolling the dice.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

276 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
drink

trickywoo

14,230 posts

260 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
Actually I read it wrong. A fund may well hold 28% but the value of this holding won't be more than 10% of the fund value meaning even if the 28% became worthless the value of the fund would 'only' fall by 10% maximum. All else being unchanged.

nyt

1,939 posts

180 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
trickywoo said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
What is a "fund" doing owning 28% of anything?
It won't be 28% in a single fund, rather 28% across all the Woodford funds.
There are only two woodford funds!

NorthDave

2,541 posts

262 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
trickywoo said:
Actually I read it wrong. A fund may well hold 28% but the value of this holding won't be more than 10% of the fund value meaning even if the 28% became worthless the value of the fund would 'only' fall by 10% maximum. All else being unchanged.
I read it as he owned 28% of this company, not that he had 28% of his funds tied up in it.

The fund was up 20% since its start last time I looked.

trickywoo

14,230 posts

260 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
NorthDave said:
I read it as he owned 28% of this company, not that he had 28% of his funds tied up in it.

The fund was up 20% since its start last time I looked.
That's right. My comprehension wasn't.

jeff m2

2,060 posts

181 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
NorthDave said:
trickywoo said:
Actually I read it wrong. A fund may well hold 28% but the value of this holding won't be more than 10% of the fund value meaning even if the 28% became worthless the value of the fund would 'only' fall by 10% maximum. All else being unchanged.
I read it as he owned 28% of this company, not that he had 28% of his funds tied up in it.

The fund was up 20% since its start last time I looked.
Yep, he allegedly owed 28% of a bioteck that got shorted.
But a 155M position in a 800M fund, assuming it was the "Patient fund" seems odd and way beyond fund norms. 5% of the fund is a normal high.
It is also possible that the position cost him less than 155M, and that was the bloated value before the shorts struck.

It is always a good idea to read the fund prospectus before investing, there are usually limitations on what a manager can do, although of course, there could be none!!!! ala hedge fund.
I wouldn't panic shorts nearly always come back and find their true value, I'm surprised he got caught he must have been aware of the short ratio of a holding that size.