Land Registry sold prices records

[mjb1]

I'm in the process of buying my house off my landlord (after renting it for years). Whilst searching around at similar properties (while we were negotiating price), I noticed quite a few nearby houses that have changed hands in the last 10 years, but no record of the sale or price paid is visible in the Land Registry Sold Prices database (and hence neither mentioned in 3rd party websites that use the land registry database (eg. Rightmove, Zoopla, etc).

According to the land registry web site:

"Our Price Paid Data excludes:

sales that have not been lodged with Land Registry.
sales that were not for full market value. By this we mean, the sale of part of a property, a share of a property or the sale of a property at a discount. For examples a transfer between parties on divorce
transfers, conveyances, assignments or leases at a premium with nominal rent which are:
‘Right to buy’ sales at a discount
subject to a lease
subject to an existing mortgage
to effect the sale of a share in a property
by way of a gift
under a compulsory purchase order
under a court order
to Trustees appointed under Deed of appointment
Vesting Deeds Transmissions or Assents of more than one property
leases for seven years or less
additional price paid transactions valued below £100 or above £99,999,999"

But I don't think these apply to at least a couple of the houses.

As a buyer, is there any way that I can prevent the sale price being made public on the land registry database? It doesn't appear as though there's any kind of opt out?

[Ozzie Osmond]

Information on the Land Registry is publicly available - for a fee.

If properties were held in a limited company and the limited company was sold there will no change of "ownership" and therefore no entry at the Land Registry. You can search against the property (Land Registry) to see who owns it and then search at Companies House to find out about the company and its ownership (i.e. shareholders). If you arrive at an offshore company or trust it's game over.

[mjb1]

I appreciate that you can pay for copies of individual title deeds that will show purchase price, but it's the free public database of sold prices I'd rather opt out of.

Pretty sure neither of the two neighbour's properties that I'm thinking of are held in limited companies or anything unusual. Just privately owned by their occupiers, both most likely have mortgages. But I don't know them well enough to feel comfortable asking how they avoided the sold price going on the free database (and they may not even be aware anyway).

[Sir Bagalot]

Last place we bought (no agent involved) hasn't appeared on the free list. Have no idea why

[MrC986]

If the property has been openly marketed, or even marketed covertly to a point, you might find a trace of a selling agents details if you look hard enough - if the deal isn't shrouded in any form of "non disclosure agreement" there's always the old fashioned way of phoning the agent once you track them down & asking them and saying your looking for comparable evidence - if you're patient/nicely persistent, you'd be amazed what you can find out (& the advice about sale of companies & related property is spot on although company balance sheets always have the property assets/liabilities hiding somewhere )

[mjb1]

A bit more reasearch reveals that repossession and auction sales are not recorded on the sold prices database as they are classed as commercial sales and/or below market value sales. Which might explain either of the two places nearby that I'm aware of, although I remember they were both advertised with estate agents as for sale, but they may have ended up going to auction.

I'm buying privately off my landlord, no estate agent or public marketing involved, so I wonder if that might be enough to have it tagged as a 'not at open market' sale?

[Jobbo]

I'm not sure how the Land Registry can distinguish between auction sales and any other normal sale - it's still exactly the same form of transfer deed submitted to them.

With repossessions, it would be apparent because the bank would be seller, not the owner.

ETA: auctions aren't excluded. Have a look here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/july-2016-price... - it excludes sales to a company, repossessions and identifiable buy-to-lets.

Edited by Jobbo on Tuesday 13th September 13:40

[mjb1]

Jobbo said:

I'm not sure how the Land Registry can distinguish between auction sales and any other normal sale - it's still exactly the same form of transfer deed submitted to them.

With repossessions, it would be apparent because the bank would be seller, not the owner.

ETA: auctions aren't excluded. Have a look here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/july-2016-price... - it excludes sales to a company, repossessions and identifiable buy-to-lets.

Edited by Jobbo on Tuesday 13th September 13:40

That link doesn't mention auctions anywhere? The only thing it does say:

5. Price Paid Data includes Standard Price Paid Data (SPPD) for single residential property sales at full market value and Additional Price Paid Data (APPD) for transactions previously excluded from SPPD such as:

transfers to a non-private individual, for example a company, corporate body or business
transfers under a power of sale (repossessions)
buy-to-lets (where they can be identified by a mortgage).
The information available for each property will indicate whether it is APPD or SPPD and the record’s status - addition/change/deletion (A/C/D).

So the standard data is all stuff sold at full market value, it's not clear if the additional data shows everything else, or just the extra types of sale it lists. So it may or may not contain auction sales, or sales below full market value.

[Jobbo]

mjb1 said:

That link doesn't mention auctions anywhere?

Exactly, they're not excluded. For starters, the Land Registry couldn't possibly distinguish them from any other transaction.

Try reading item 2 in the Land Registry's list: "Price Paid Data is property price data for all residential and commercial property sales in England and Wales that are lodged with us for registration in that month, subject to exclusions."

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

I find it usually takes about 3 months for land registry to catch up, assuming the solicitors involved in the sale are prompt with their admin.