Basic "joint" account for friend with budgeting problems?
Discussion
I have a friend with budgeting issues. She is partial to pharmaceutical substances and buying random stuff on eBay. She has a good job, earns enough to cover all normal outgoings with about £400 a month left over. Unfortunately she manages to blow the surplus on payday, then borrows to blow some more the following weekend. She always pays back what she's borrowed on the next payday.
The only way forward that she can see is to put her money beyond easy reach, i.e in my hands. It's a mental health issue, rather than a physical addiction. If she can stop and think before she acts, the craving will pass. It's all spur of the moment stuff.
I'm happy to look after her money, but not sure of the best way to do it. The money needs to be safe from spur of the moment withdrawals, but visible to her so she can see how much it's growing each month. Her goal is to save £200 a month for the next 18 months while her youngest is at uni.
One potential problem is that she lives 5 hours away from me, so we can't both be present at the same bank branch to open a new account. Also, I don't want to be left liable if she does something silly, and she will need to be able to access the money if anything happens to me.
Any suggestions for a suitable account? I already have accounts with most of the major banks (except HSBC and TSB)
The only way forward that she can see is to put her money beyond easy reach, i.e in my hands. It's a mental health issue, rather than a physical addiction. If she can stop and think before she acts, the craving will pass. It's all spur of the moment stuff.
I'm happy to look after her money, but not sure of the best way to do it. The money needs to be safe from spur of the moment withdrawals, but visible to her so she can see how much it's growing each month. Her goal is to save £200 a month for the next 18 months while her youngest is at uni.
One potential problem is that she lives 5 hours away from me, so we can't both be present at the same bank branch to open a new account. Also, I don't want to be left liable if she does something silly, and she will need to be able to access the money if anything happens to me.
Any suggestions for a suitable account? I already have accounts with most of the major banks (except HSBC and TSB)
clockworks said:
I have a friend with budgeting issues. She is partial to pharmaceutical substances and buying random stuff on eBay. She has a good job, earns enough to cover all normal outgoings with about £400 a month left over. Unfortunately she manages to blow the surplus on payday, then borrows to blow some more the following weekend. She always pays back what she's borrowed on the next payday.
The only way forward that she can see is to put her money beyond easy reach, i.e in my hands. It's a mental health issue, rather than a physical addiction. If she can stop and think before she acts, the craving will pass. It's all spur of the moment stuff.
I'm happy to look after her money, but not sure of the best way to do it. The money needs to be safe from spur of the moment withdrawals, but visible to her so she can see how much it's growing each month. Her goal is to save £200 a month for the next 18 months while her youngest is at uni.
One potential problem is that she lives 5 hours away from me, so we can't both be present at the same bank branch to open a new account. Also, I don't want to be left liable if she does something silly, and she will need to be able to access the money if anything happens to me.
Any suggestions for a suitable account? I already have accounts with most of the major banks (except HSBC and TSB)
As previous poster advised, stay well away from opening a bank account.The only way forward that she can see is to put her money beyond easy reach, i.e in my hands. It's a mental health issue, rather than a physical addiction. If she can stop and think before she acts, the craving will pass. It's all spur of the moment stuff.
I'm happy to look after her money, but not sure of the best way to do it. The money needs to be safe from spur of the moment withdrawals, but visible to her so she can see how much it's growing each month. Her goal is to save £200 a month for the next 18 months while her youngest is at uni.
One potential problem is that she lives 5 hours away from me, so we can't both be present at the same bank branch to open a new account. Also, I don't want to be left liable if she does something silly, and she will need to be able to access the money if anything happens to me.
Any suggestions for a suitable account? I already have accounts with most of the major banks (except HSBC and TSB)
Sounds as though the problem lies elsewhere and she needs some professional help, hiding her money away may lead to further problems if she can’t get her hands on money.
Further debt with credit cards etc......
Hope all works out for her.
Worries about liability was one of the reasons I asked the question. Maybe a new savings account in my name, with a standing order from her account on payday, would be best.
Her problems are long standing - depression, anxiety, borderline personality disorder. The addictive behaviour is the thing that will get her into trouble though. Easy to end up homeless and jobless.
I've suggested seeking professional help, either via her GP or an addiction agency. When she's coming down from a high she agrees (full of self-loathing and guilt), but the next day she feels OK, says she can beat it on her own. And the cycle continues.
Not sure about the BPD diagnosis. Not a believer in labels. It goes back to her childhood - her sister is very similar.
Her problems are long standing - depression, anxiety, borderline personality disorder. The addictive behaviour is the thing that will get her into trouble though. Easy to end up homeless and jobless.
I've suggested seeking professional help, either via her GP or an addiction agency. When she's coming down from a high she agrees (full of self-loathing and guilt), but the next day she feels OK, says she can beat it on her own. And the cycle continues.
Not sure about the BPD diagnosis. Not a believer in labels. It goes back to her childhood - her sister is very similar.
Either, as posted earlier, set up another bank account in your name and a standing order is sent every payday to it.
Or,
Set up an ISA in her name with a different bank so it is not visible on her main banking page and set a standing order upto it on payday. This has its flaws as if the funds build up and she suddenly notices. "ooh, £2k, lets go on a spending spree". This is why I suggested an ISA as there wouldn't be a debit card available to splurge on.
Or,
What is her current pension scheme like? If she has a workplace or private pension, set up a standing order to her pension scheme. This is a bit more long term, but the barriers to get the money out might deter her. Some tax benefits too.
Or,
Set up an ISA in her name with a different bank so it is not visible on her main banking page and set a standing order upto it on payday. This has its flaws as if the funds build up and she suddenly notices. "ooh, £2k, lets go on a spending spree". This is why I suggested an ISA as there wouldn't be a debit card available to splurge on.
Or,
What is her current pension scheme like? If she has a workplace or private pension, set up a standing order to her pension scheme. This is a bit more long term, but the barriers to get the money out might deter her. Some tax benefits too.
Everyone saying mad
If she was to get a legal agreement made up making you in charge of her finances then just standing order her spare money each month.
I infact applaud you for trying to help. Many people on this thread seem only to take their wellbeing into consideration.
No wonder the world is all messed up.
If she was to get a legal agreement made up making you in charge of her finances then just standing order her spare money each month.
I infact applaud you for trying to help. Many people on this thread seem only to take their wellbeing into consideration.
No wonder the world is all messed up.
Tiring yourself financially to someone who is very likely in debt (she will probably lie about this) and can’t control herself..? Yeah ok
Tell her to get a basic account with no overdraft facility. When she’s spent her wages she’s spent them. See if she will open one account like that and close all her others. Bet she won’t.
Tell her to get a basic account with no overdraft facility. When she’s spent her wages she’s spent them. See if she will open one account like that and close all her others. Bet she won’t.
If you opened a nationwide account for her with a standing order from her to the account, you could give her access to the app meaning she could see the money and make transfers to pre-arranged accounts (you'd keep the cards and the identify thing) so there would be some control. Just make sure there is 0 overdraft.
She doesn't have an overdraft facility or credit cards. No chance of getting a loan or credit card as she has an IVA (store cards and council tax arrears).
She did manage to borrow money from her employer to buy an iMac, which she promptly sold at a loss to buy coke. This is part of the cycle - buy a "luxury" item, sell it to buy coke, buy the same item again the next payday, sell again because the bill money has gone on coke. Not helped by coke use being widespread at her place of work.
She also borrows money from her kids, who think she's an alcoholic.
She received an unexpected bonus on Friday- a £640 refund for overpaid council tax. This was supposed to be her fresh start. By Sunday the money was gone, some on replacing luxury items and repaying her son, the rest up her nose.
For those using the word "mad" (not sure if it was aimed at her, or me for trying to be supportive) - I've never met anyone who doesn't have issues. It's "normal", part of being human. For some, these issues become a problem when they interfere with daily life.
She did manage to borrow money from her employer to buy an iMac, which she promptly sold at a loss to buy coke. This is part of the cycle - buy a "luxury" item, sell it to buy coke, buy the same item again the next payday, sell again because the bill money has gone on coke. Not helped by coke use being widespread at her place of work.
She also borrows money from her kids, who think she's an alcoholic.
She received an unexpected bonus on Friday- a £640 refund for overpaid council tax. This was supposed to be her fresh start. By Sunday the money was gone, some on replacing luxury items and repaying her son, the rest up her nose.
For those using the word "mad" (not sure if it was aimed at her, or me for trying to be supportive) - I've never met anyone who doesn't have issues. It's "normal", part of being human. For some, these issues become a problem when they interfere with daily life.
clockworks said:
The only way forward that she can see is to put her money beyond easy reach, i.e in my hands. It's a mental health issue, rather than a physical addiction. If she can stop and think before she acts, the craving will pass. It's all spur of the moment stuff.
I think you are addressing the wrong issue, practical and very guy solution, but it is the symptom not the cause. I'd suggest debt counselling, it is not just for the people that are so deep they cannot get out.
--- edit ---
More so after reading your follow on. 'Shopping' like this is just another addition. So try to find a service that can help with both debt and addiction.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Thursday 8th March 09:08
CoolHands said:
for me I meant mad as in you'd be mad to tie your ship to hers. No offense meant.
None taken.Maybe I should've walked away at the first hint of problems, 5 years ago. Back then I had plenty of my own unresolved (and unacknowledged) issues, mostly around self-esteem and conditions of worth. More childhood stuff. I've worked on these, with some success.
I know that I can't save her, she has to do that herself. I wouldn't feel comfortable abandoning her though. I am OK with being supportive, from a distance - she lives 5 hours away. All communication is by phone and social media. We've only met once, for a few days 5 years ago, but stayed in regular contact.
4x4Tyke said:
I think you are addressing the wrong issue, practical and very guy solution, but it is the symptom not the cause.
I'd suggest debt counselling, it is not just for the people that are so deep they cannot get out.
--- edit ---
More so after reading your follow on. 'Shopping' like this is just another addition. So try to find a service that can help with both debt and addiction.
Of course you are right, but practical support is all I can offer from a distance. Remove some of the temptation. Proper counselling/therapy is needed, and I've suggested it on numerous occasions. Either addiction counselling (she acknowledges that she has addiction issues) or deeper therapy for the underlying mental health issues (which she is all too aware of).I'd suggest debt counselling, it is not just for the people that are so deep they cannot get out.
--- edit ---
More so after reading your follow on. 'Shopping' like this is just another addition. So try to find a service that can help with both debt and addiction.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Thursday 8th March 09:08
I have some experience in this area, but it's not safe to work with someone that you know personally. I've told her that I can't be her counsellor as well as her friend. Not sure she understands that. For that reason, I'm sticking to practical stuff. Better that she talks to me than isolating herself.
How about she sends you £200.01 a month and you buy her £200 of premium bonds which you look after for her.
That way I think you could draw up a contract where you are providing her with a service. This would protect you both. I am not a solicitor though.
There are apps she could get to help with budgeting, like YNAB.
Also she does need to give up or atleast strongly limit her coke use.
That way I think you could draw up a contract where you are providing her with a service. This would protect you both. I am not a solicitor though.
There are apps she could get to help with budgeting, like YNAB.
Also she does need to give up or atleast strongly limit her coke use.
clockworks said:
CoolHands said:
for me I meant mad as in you'd be mad to tie your ship to hers. No offense meant.
None taken.Maybe I should've walked away at the first hint of problems, 5 years ago. Back then I had plenty of my own unresolved (and unacknowledged) issues, mostly around self-esteem and conditions of worth. More childhood stuff. I've worked on these, with some success.
I know that I can't save her, she has to do that herself. I wouldn't feel comfortable abandoning her though. I am OK with being supportive, from a distance - she lives 5 hours away. All communication is by phone and social media. We've only met once, for a few days 5 years ago, but stayed in regular contact.
Personally if it was me and it was someone who lived 5 hours away I had met once I would be slowly stopping communications with them.
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