"Widow's pension" if unmarried?
Discussion
Does such a thing exist? A friend's partner is in line for a decent pension when he retires in 4 or 5 years. A couple of company schemes from previous employers, so I assume they are DB. They have lived together for 10 years or so, and have a joint mortgage with quite a few years to run. He is 5 years older than her. She has pretty much nothing from her previous marriage, he was in a much better position financially, even after his divorce.
We were talking about retirement the other day, and I asked her how she would cope if her partner dies before her. His kids will cop for most of his other assets (which is fair, because he had those before he got together with my friend), and she will get their current house (paid for with a joint life policy).
I asked her about how she would manage on just her part time minimum wage job, and her state pension when the time comes. She asked her partner about this, and he said that she would be "taken care of". She didn't push it with him, but assumed that she would get widow's pensions from his company schemes.
I though this only happened if the couple were married or in a civil partnership?
She wants to get married, but he is less keen as his kids wouldn't approve, so they haven't.
To me, it makes sense, for financial security, to get married. I'm in a similar situation, and it's what I'll be doing before I fall off the perch. Have I got it wrong, and the surviving partner will get a pension regardless of marital status?
We were talking about retirement the other day, and I asked her how she would cope if her partner dies before her. His kids will cop for most of his other assets (which is fair, because he had those before he got together with my friend), and she will get their current house (paid for with a joint life policy).
I asked her about how she would manage on just her part time minimum wage job, and her state pension when the time comes. She asked her partner about this, and he said that she would be "taken care of". She didn't push it with him, but assumed that she would get widow's pensions from his company schemes.
I though this only happened if the couple were married or in a civil partnership?
She wants to get married, but he is less keen as his kids wouldn't approve, so they haven't.
To me, it makes sense, for financial security, to get married. I'm in a similar situation, and it's what I'll be doing before I fall off the perch. Have I got it wrong, and the surviving partner will get a pension regardless of marital status?
It depends on the rules of the defined benefit pension scheme. Some will be just widows/widowers (i.e. legally married) but I think that's uncommon these days as it would exclude civil partnerships. So I would expect it to be payable to a spouse (to include both marriages and civil partnerships) as a minimum.
Increasingly common is a "widow's" pension payable to a financial dependent - I've heard of this being used to cover siblings who live together, for example. But that might be at the discretion of the pension scheme trustees.
If this is an issue for you, definitely worth asking the question of your pension scheme(s) directly.
Increasingly common is a "widow's" pension payable to a financial dependent - I've heard of this being used to cover siblings who live together, for example. But that might be at the discretion of the pension scheme trustees.
If this is an issue for you, definitely worth asking the question of your pension scheme(s) directly.
Put simply, it all depends on the rules of the relevant pension scheme. Most will provide a widow's/widower's pension if the pair were legally married. Some will have a cohabitation rule with a minimum period before a pension is paid. Some include partners and same sex marriages. Some schemes have a financial dependency test. So, ask the right questions through the employer and if not happy ask for a copy of the scheme rules and see if you can fathom out who if anyone gets what (good luck !).
BTW, most schemes also have children's benefits paid on the death of their parent. There will be a maximum age qualification, and an age after which payments will cease. The rules of the scheme will state the qualifications, limitations, amounts etc, so once again ask the relevant questions.
R.
BTW, most schemes also have children's benefits paid on the death of their parent. There will be a maximum age qualification, and an age after which payments will cease. The rules of the scheme will state the qualifications, limitations, amounts etc, so once again ask the relevant questions.
R.
Put simply, it all depends on the rules of the relevant pension scheme. Most will provide a widow's/widower's pension if the pair were legally married. Some will have a cohabitation rule with a minimum period before a pension is paid. Some include partners and same sex marriages. Some schemes have a financial dependency test. So, ask the right questions through the employer and if not happy ask for a copy of the scheme rules and see if you can fathom out who if anyone gets what (good luck !).
BTW, most schemes also have children's benefits paid on the death of their parent. There will be a maximum age qualification, and an age after which payments will cease. The rules of the scheme will state the qualifications, limitations, amounts etc, so once again ask the relevant questions.
R.
BTW, most schemes also have children's benefits paid on the death of their parent. There will be a maximum age qualification, and an age after which payments will cease. The rules of the scheme will state the qualifications, limitations, amounts etc, so once again ask the relevant questions.
R.
Bit of a minefield then!
It's a difficult situation for her - how to ask her partner to clarify his statement that she will be "taken care of" without seeming to not trust him. It doesn't help that she's quite naive about financial matters, and doesn't really understand what questions she should be asking.
I'll be contacting my pension schemes and asking about my situation.
It's a difficult situation for her - how to ask her partner to clarify his statement that she will be "taken care of" without seeming to not trust him. It doesn't help that she's quite naive about financial matters, and doesn't really understand what questions she should be asking.
I'll be contacting my pension schemes and asking about my situation.
clockworks said:
Does such a thing exist? A friend's partner is in line for a decent pension when he retires in 4 or 5 years. A couple of company schemes from previous employers, so I assume they are DB. They have lived together for 10 years or so, and have a joint mortgage with quite a few years to run. He is 5 years older than her. She has pretty much nothing from her previous marriage, he was in a much better position financially, even after his divorce.
We were talking about retirement the other day, and I asked her how she would cope if her partner dies before her. His kids will cop for most of his other assets (which is fair, because he had those before he got together with my friend), and she will get their current house (paid for with a joint life policy).
I asked her about how she would manage on just her part time minimum wage job, and her state pension when the time comes. She asked her partner about this, and he said that she would be "taken care of". She didn't push it with him, but assumed that she would get widow's pensions from his company schemes.
I though this only happened if the couple were married or in a civil partnership?
She wants to get married, but he is less keen as his kids wouldn't approve, so they haven't.
To me, it makes sense, for financial security, to get married. I'm in a similar situation, and it's what I'll be doing before I fall off the perch. Have I got it wrong, and the surviving partner will get a pension regardless of marital status?
Are the DB schemes Public Sector or Private Sector?We were talking about retirement the other day, and I asked her how she would cope if her partner dies before her. His kids will cop for most of his other assets (which is fair, because he had those before he got together with my friend), and she will get their current house (paid for with a joint life policy).
I asked her about how she would manage on just her part time minimum wage job, and her state pension when the time comes. She asked her partner about this, and he said that she would be "taken care of". She didn't push it with him, but assumed that she would get widow's pensions from his company schemes.
I though this only happened if the couple were married or in a civil partnership?
She wants to get married, but he is less keen as his kids wouldn't approve, so they haven't.
To me, it makes sense, for financial security, to get married. I'm in a similar situation, and it's what I'll be doing before I fall off the perch. Have I got it wrong, and the surviving partner will get a pension regardless of marital status?
If the former then pretty much all of them insist on being married or in a civil partnership. I've knows lots of people in long-term relationships get married just to ensure pension entitlement.
When I was talking about "married" I was including civil partnerships as these now mostly shadow marriages (although there may be areas where they are not fully aligned).
In the context of the circumstances outlined by the OP, Civil Partnerships would not have been applicable as the couple are not "same sex".
In the context of the circumstances outlined by the OP, Civil Partnerships would not have been applicable as the couple are not "same sex".
He works in the power distribution network industry, so I guess they could be public sector turned private?
I'm pretty sure that my first DB pension stated that the widow's benefits only applied to married couples at the time I left the job 20 years ago. The death in service benefits certainly did. Not sure about the second one.
My current employer's scheme is DC, with a tiny projected pension (part time job on not much over minimum wage), so I'll hopefully be able to cash that one in?
It's a shame that hetero couples can't have a civil partnership, as I'm sure a lot of older couples would opt for that over another marriage later in life.
I'm pretty sure that my first DB pension stated that the widow's benefits only applied to married couples at the time I left the job 20 years ago. The death in service benefits certainly did. Not sure about the second one.
My current employer's scheme is DC, with a tiny projected pension (part time job on not much over minimum wage), so I'll hopefully be able to cash that one in?
It's a shame that hetero couples can't have a civil partnership, as I'm sure a lot of older couples would opt for that over another marriage later in life.
I thought that the Supreme Court ruled this year that heterosexual couples could have a civil partnership. I could be wrong though. My sister receives half of her late partners pension even though they were not married. They were several conditions that had to be met for her to receive it. IIRC there had to be less than 10 years age difference between them and they had had to have been together for over 10 years.
The Leaper said:
Put simply, it all depends on the rules of the relevant pension scheme. Most will provide a widow's/widower's pension if the pair were legally married. Some will have a cohabitation rule with a minimum period before a pension is paid. Some include partners and same sex marriages. Some schemes have a financial dependency test.
I've been on the trustee board of two different corporate pension schemes for 14 years and counting, and this is an exellent summay of the situation. There is no fixed answer, you must know the scheme rules. As above, it’s all in the scheme rules.
The Armed Forces Pension Scheme, for instance, reduces the size of a dependents’ pension where the survivor is more than twelve years younger than the member, to take account of the fact that the pension can be expected to be paid over a longer period.
If a marriage or civil partnership took place within 6 months of the member’s death, the award
of a pension to a surviving spouse or civil partner is not automatic. The Scheme Administrator will examine the circumstances of these cases to ensure that the marriage or civil partnership was not entered into purely for financial gain.
Where a relationship exists that does not involve marriage, a benchmark refers to a relationship being exclusive and meaningful. Check the scheme rules.
The Armed Forces Pension Scheme, for instance, reduces the size of a dependents’ pension where the survivor is more than twelve years younger than the member, to take account of the fact that the pension can be expected to be paid over a longer period.
If a marriage or civil partnership took place within 6 months of the member’s death, the award
of a pension to a surviving spouse or civil partner is not automatic. The Scheme Administrator will examine the circumstances of these cases to ensure that the marriage or civil partnership was not entered into purely for financial gain.
Where a relationship exists that does not involve marriage, a benchmark refers to a relationship being exclusive and meaningful. Check the scheme rules.
Just having a look at one of my pensions, a local authority scheme.
"Since 1 April 2009. co-habiting partners are eligible to receive a dependant's pension. To nominate a co-habiting partner your relationship has to meet certain conditions.These include declaration from both parties that for at least two years you have continouously been financially interdependent, both free to marry or form a civil partnership and cohabiting as if married /civil partners."
Also If I die before my pension starts, I can nominate anyone I chose to receive my lump sum (or death grant as they call it) but worryingly they reserve the right to ignore this nomination and give it to my general estate instead. I wonder who makes this decision and under what circumstances would they ignore your nomination.
"Since 1 April 2009. co-habiting partners are eligible to receive a dependant's pension. To nominate a co-habiting partner your relationship has to meet certain conditions.These include declaration from both parties that for at least two years you have continouously been financially interdependent, both free to marry or form a civil partnership and cohabiting as if married /civil partners."
Also If I die before my pension starts, I can nominate anyone I chose to receive my lump sum (or death grant as they call it) but worryingly they reserve the right to ignore this nomination and give it to my general estate instead. I wonder who makes this decision and under what circumstances would they ignore your nomination.
@Vanordinaire.
The Trustees make the decision. They look at your expression of intent, and then look if there is anybody who might challenge it (eg if you had dependants). I’m a Trustee of a small-ish scheme and we’ve never gone against an EoI. In a lot of cases, where the deceased hasn’t actually made their desires clear we’ve tried to use logic and common sense.
The Trustees make the decision. They look at your expression of intent, and then look if there is anybody who might challenge it (eg if you had dependants). I’m a Trustee of a small-ish scheme and we’ve never gone against an EoI. In a lot of cases, where the deceased hasn’t actually made their desires clear we’ve tried to use logic and common sense.
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