Nutmeg.com Poor Performance

[Frankstar123]

How do,

I've been investing in Nutmeg.com ISA for 2 1/2 years now and my performance as per today is + 3.2%, risk rating 8/10

To me this seems pretty low, are people on here experiencing similar returns on their investments over this time period?

Thanks

[xeny]

I'm looking at https://www.nutmeg.com/fully-managed-portfolios#ma... and selecting risk profile 8, I'm seeing 12.9% for 2016, 11.9% for 2017, and 6.9% for the last 12 months. I don't see how that corresponds to 3.2% ?

While I don't particularly like Nutmeg, it seems odd that their reported performance differs so much from what you're seeing. Can you check your figures, or expand on your post with more detail?

[Frankstar123]

Well thats what my account is showing, i've been putting in monthly for 2 1/2 years now.

My wifes, 7/10 risk rating is showing similar returns.

[xeny]

Presuming you've been putting in the same amount each month, you're saying you've put in 30 * £100 (for a total of £3000 to give some example numbers) and you've now got

1.032*1.032*.1.016*3000=£3000*~1.082=£3246.20

or something else?

[sammyb349]

Is your percentage return on value of investments today or average investment over the 2.5 years?

Given you’ve been pound-cost-averaging you can’t compare the two as £1 invested on Jan-1 will give a different return profile to £0.08 invested each month - not only is time in the market different but also the entry points.

[xeny]

I'd hope that Nutmeg's account reporting would allow for that, otherwise they're pretty much guaranteeing they'll make customers think they're getting worese performance than they actually are.

[sidicks]

xeny said:

I'd hope that Nutmeg's account reporting would allow for that, otherwise they're pretty much guaranteeing they'll make customers think they're getting worese performance than they actually are.

Clearly the amount invested has only been invested for 1.25 years on average. It’s quite feasible that the pattern of returns means that investors who have made monthly investments achieve quite a different return than those who have invested over the whole period.

[bitchstewie]

I play around with a few portfolio tools online to see how things have performed historically and whilst it's a bit of a statement of the obvious, there is a massive difference in actual return between if you stick £5K in something upfront and leave it 5 years v drip in £100/month over 5 years.

[Frankstar123]

All time
30 Days

+
£1,377
3.34%
Returns after fees, all time

Is what is showing on my nutmeg account after 2 years 6 months.

Basically i have £1377 more than i put in over 2 years 6 months. Pretty poor IMO..

[darreni]

You’ve been buying into a rising market over the period with modest monthly contributions.

Pound cost averaging works best in a falling market.

[xeny]

Frankstar123 said:

All time

Basically i have £1377 more than i put in over 2 years 6 months. Pretty poor IMO..

tricky to judge without knowing how much you put in. There are a couple of things your 3.34% could represent.

If you've been putting in ~£1400/month (back calculating one of the things it could mean) then it's awful, but we're missing the amount you invested.

[Frankstar123]

All time
30 Days
£41,190
Net contributions

[bitchstewie]

I think you need to be clearer how/when you've been putting money in and what numbers you're posting.

That looks like you're saying you've put £40K in but over what period and was it all dripped at regular intervals or did you put £20K in and then do nothing and put £20K in last month etc.

Details kind of matter here if you want people to be able to tell you what might have happened

[Darkside99]

Hi there,

So I have been using nutmeg for 2 years now and have put in £100 a month for the last 4 months and before that £300 a month, however I also dropped in around 8 sets of £1000 or so at the end of 8 different months.

I have - 3.3% which is currently -£586 in return so I’m in minus figures over this period, have called them and spoke to a few different consultants there but they all say they can’t give advice, and say it’s uo to me what I do. So I dropped from risk level 8/10 to risk level 4/10 recently and it’s just going down into more minuses.

Any suggestions on what to do here ?

I think I should withdraw as the company is clearly a joke, ?

But I want to make a good return on my money.

Thanks

[nealeh1875]

Darkside99 said:

Hi there,

So I have been using nutmeg for 2 years now and have put in £100 a month for the last 4 months and before that £300 a month, however I also dropped in around 8 sets of £1000 or so at the end of 8 different months.

I have - 3.3% which is currently -£586 in return so I’m in minus figures over this period, have called them and spoke to a few different consultants there but they all say they can’t give advice, and say it’s uo to me what I do. So I dropped from risk level 8/10 to risk level 4/10 recently and it’s just going down into more minuses.

Any suggestions on what to do here ?

I think I should withdraw as the company is clearly a joke, ?

But I want to make a good return on my money.

Thanks

thats like me i am -5.35% at the mo. down about £112 and its pissing me off.

im tempted to sack it all off tbh but i dont know where to but it.

i have htb isa and htb lisa. so i cant open a cash isa i dont think?

[NickCQ]

Darkside99 said:

Any suggestions on what to do here ?

I think I should withdraw as the company is clearly a joke, ?

But I want to make a good return on my money.

All markets are down heavily over the last month or so, I doubt Nutmeg has performed much better or worse than the wider market.

[Jimmy Recard]

NickCQ said:

All markets are down heavily over the last month or so, I doubt Nutmeg has performed much better or worse than the wider market.

They’re mostly (all?) still up compared to where they were three years ago though, aren’t they?

That said, I agree here. Sit it out. A couple of years is still short term really.

What was it looking like before the markets dropped these last couple of months?

[emicen]

Does it show you what you are actually invested in or just that you’re invested in their 8/10 portfolio?

It’s a very complicated question without being able to go in to a decent amount of detail of how much was invested in what and when.

As an example, my last job’s pension performance from Jan-16 to today, contributions made until July that year then left, stands at 6.67%

My new job’s pension performance with regular contributions from May-17 to today, stands at -4.64%

With my new pension, it’s obviously disappointing I didn’t whack it all on US stocks and enjoy their rocketing value. At the same time, the DJIA has been +25% on May-17 twice in that period, today it’s only at +14%. At the same time though, I track my funds against a few global indexes and actually, it’s broadly following them.

[JulianPH]

I believe you are comparing performance of the portfolio you invested in over the period against the returns you have achieved by drip feeding your money into this portfolio during a rising market (predominantly), as others have said.

If you invest £1,200 into something that grows by 10% over a year you would make a £120 profit.

If you invest £100 a month for a year (the same money) into the same investment your return will be completely different.

Take the HSBC (and others) 6% interest rate deposit accounts for monthly savings. Only the first contribution will actually receive 6%. The rest will achieve less than this (as they are not invested for the full twelve months).

If you save equal amounts each month you will see a 3% return on your whole capital as whilst you earned 6% on the first instalment you only earned 1/12th of this (0.5%) on your final contribution.

Now extrapolate this onto markets that move daily (the HSBC example assumed identical returns day in and day out). Each monthly investment is subject to completely different parameters than the others.

So you cannot compare the rise in an investment for a lump sum with how this impacts on regular savings into the same investment.

I don't like Nutmeg, but I can't in this instance see how their reporting to you is anything other than correct

[CaptainSensib1e]

Darkside99 said:

Hi there,

So I have been using nutmeg for 2 years now and have put in £100 a month for the last 4 months and before that £300 a month, however I also dropped in around 8 sets of £1000 or so at the end of 8 different months.

I have - 3.3% which is currently -£586 in return so I’m in minus figures over this period, have called them and spoke to a few different consultants there but they all say they can’t give advice, and say it’s uo to me what I do. So I dropped from risk level 8/10 to risk level 4/10 recently and it’s just going down into more minuses.

Any suggestions on what to do here ?

I think I should withdraw as the company is clearly a joke, ?

But I want to make a good return on my money.

Thanks

You're making the mistake of judging the performance on an absolute basis. A fund that goes up 10% when the market has risen 20% has done poorly. A fund that falls by 10% when the market has fallen by 20% has done well.

And I don't see how what Nutmeg has told you makes them a joke. Risk level 4 will still mean you can lose money if markets are falling, as it has recently.

Sounds like you want a good return but you aren't preparared to take the risk of losing money. Unfortunately the only way of earning a good return is by taking some risk Maybe investing isn't for you.