Nan running out of money to pay for her care
Discussion
My nan has been in a private care home for the last 4 years, she has bad dementia and is 93 yrs old. We didnt think she would be in there for more than a year but she has kept going. She sold her house and the cash used to pay for her care, she has spent so far close to £240k and is now running out of cash. Council reviewed her as her cash is now below the threshold, they would pay some but £700 pw still needs to covered. I would pay all the difference if I could but I cant afford to, I can pay some though.
I want to avoid having to move her to a different home as she is in no fit state to do so. Anyone aware of other sources of funding ? I'm hoping to try and talk to current care home and see if I can get reduction in fees, not sure if that will work as its a business.
Thanks
I want to avoid having to move her to a different home as she is in no fit state to do so. Anyone aware of other sources of funding ? I'm hoping to try and talk to current care home and see if I can get reduction in fees, not sure if that will work as its a business.
Thanks
I agree you should speak to the care home but don't start by asking for a reduction. Tell them the situation and ask for their advice.
They must have plenty of experience dealing with council and you both seem to have the same interest ie. your nan spending her remaining years in a place where she is comfortable and familiar.
No experience, just my instinct.
They must have plenty of experience dealing with council and you both seem to have the same interest ie. your nan spending her remaining years in a place where she is comfortable and familiar.
No experience, just my instinct.
Dementia?
I would have thought she'd be assessed for continuing care at some point so it's all free (or a large contribution towards care).
Worth looking into, as it's back dated.
Not a recommendation, just a pointer to it:-
https://www.hughjames.com/service/nursing-care/cas...
I would have thought she'd be assessed for continuing care at some point so it's all free (or a large contribution towards care).
Worth looking into, as it's back dated.
Not a recommendation, just a pointer to it:-
https://www.hughjames.com/service/nursing-care/cas...
Edited by chadders74 on Thursday 13th September 09:35
rsbmw said:
Is it part of a care home chain/group? If so which one?
It's this lot www.mmcgcarehomes.co.uk Maria Mallaband Care Group.Yeah she been reviewed for continuous care I believe but the home charges circa £6k a month the council would cover nearly half of that a month, which is something. The home is nice but was primarily chosen due to location as it's near my mums who doesn't drive anymore so can walk there. My mum can't look after as she has dementia as well but not as bad as my nans at the moment my mum can cope at home with careers coming in. Its stress dementia seems to run in the female side of my family all my blood female relatives have had it badly.
cheers
Edited by PostHeads123 on Thursday 13th September 10:11
When did your nan last have an assessesment of her needs? It will have been called a dst (decision support tool) and will look at her areas of need and determine the funding she is entitled to and who is paying it.
Continuing care will mean her fees are 100% covered but they do require a very very high level of need. You also don't mention whether she is having nursing care or residential care.
Continuing care will mean her fees are 100% covered but they do require a very very high level of need. You also don't mention whether she is having nursing care or residential care.
ar-em-en said:
When did your nan last have an assessesment of her needs? It will have been called a dst (decision support tool) and will look at her areas of need and determine the funding she is entitled to and who is paying it.
Continuing care will mean her fees are 100% covered but they do require a very very high level of need. You also don't mention whether she is having nursing care or residential care.
She is having nursing care she cant do anything herself wash, feed, dress etc, she was reviewed last week for the financials not sure on the needs bit, I get the info off my mum who is not well herself (but wont let me deal with it) so unless she got it wrong. When you say 100% would that cover private care home fees or just NHS care-home ? She is in private home at the moment the fees are approx. £6k a month.Continuing care will mean her fees are 100% covered but they do require a very very high level of need. You also don't mention whether she is having nursing care or residential care.
cheers
Edited by PostHeads123 on Thursday 13th September 10:19
There are no "NHS" care homes, almost all care homes will be a mixture of private pay and LA funded. You will have people in adjacent rooms, one paying £1k a week, the other having the LA pay £600 a week for the room. If the assessment gives her 100% funding, the LA will set the rates with the care home, possibly as part of an existing contract.
That said, it could be that the care home doesn't struggle for occupancy and is 100% private pay, at which point they would rather have the room back and it may mean a move.
That said, it could be that the care home doesn't struggle for occupancy and is 100% private pay, at which point they would rather have the room back and it may mean a move.
rsbmw said:
There are no "NHS" care homes, almost all care homes will be a mixture of private pay and LA funded. You will have people in adjacent rooms, one paying £1k a week, the other having the LA pay £600 a week for the room. If the assessment gives her 100% funding, the LA will set the rates with the care home, possibly as part of an existing contract.
That said, it could be that the care home doesn't struggle for occupancy and is 100% private pay, at which point they would rather have the room back and it may mean a move.
That said, it could be that the care home doesn't struggle for occupancy and is 100% private pay, at which point they would rather have the room back and it may mean a move.
Thanks for the info, when you say assessment you mean the "continous care" part and not the her finances ? If thats the case I will chase up when she was last assessed for continous care. They home doesnt seem to struggle for occupancy, I hope I can sort something out
Cheers
chadders74 said:
Dementia?
I would have thought she'd be assessed for continuing care at some point so it's all free (or a large contribution towards care).
Worth looking into, as it's back dated.
Not a recommendation, just a pointer to it:-
https://www.hughjames.com/service/nursing-care/cas...
Thanks for link will give them a call.I would have thought she'd be assessed for continuing care at some point so it's all free (or a large contribution towards care).
Worth looking into, as it's back dated.
Not a recommendation, just a pointer to it:-
https://www.hughjames.com/service/nursing-care/cas...
Edited by chadders74 on Thursday 13th September 09:35
Having dementia will be no means meet she meets the criteria for continuing care unfortunately. But if she meets the criteria for it then all her fees should be covered.
You should ask the home when she last had a dst and if she's not had one recently then one needs arranging to check that she's getting all the funding she's entitled to.
You should ask the home when she last had a dst and if she's not had one recently then one needs arranging to check that she's getting all the funding she's entitled to.
The LA will fund a social need, a dst meeting will determine if their is a primary health need. A primary health need is complicated but will mean that the care homes fees are paid for by the NHS within reason (the homes fees are not unusual by any stretch, assuming she is receiving 24 hour nursing care).
The top pdf in this search has alot of detail on the process but is quite longwinded.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sa...
It's a horrible thought that someone should have to move from a home where the staff are familiar with them and their family can see them looked after due to money.
The top pdf in this search has alot of detail on the process but is quite longwinded.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sa...
It's a horrible thought that someone should have to move from a home where the staff are familiar with them and their family can see them looked after due to money.
ar-em-en said:
The LA will fund a social need, a dst meeting will determine if their is a primary health need. A primary health need is complicated but will mean that the care homes fees are paid for by the NHS within reason (the homes fees are not unusual by any stretch, assuming she is receiving 24 hour nursing care).
The top pdf in this search has alot of detail on the process but is quite longwinded.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sa...
It's a horrible thought that someone should have to move from a home where the staff are familiar with them and their family can see them looked after due to money.
Thanks. The top pdf in this search has alot of detail on the process but is quite longwinded.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sa...
It's a horrible thought that someone should have to move from a home where the staff are familiar with them and their family can see them looked after due to money.
I just want to make sure my understanding is correct, I looked at a few docs and sites and its bit confusing.
1. The DST is the 'decision support tool' that is used to determine if my nan is eligible for 'continuous care' ?
2. If she is eligible for continuous care, she may get 100% of the fees paid, subject to the LA limits, so it could end up being the case that even if she is deemed as the most needy care wise the LA may not cover 100% ?
3. The financial assessment part of it all were you have < 23k saving is that a totally separate thing, or is it the case that if you have <23k then only at that point you can be assessed for continuous care ?
At the moment its hard for me to figure out what's going on as I only have the info my mum tells me on the phone, she wont use technology like mobiles etc so I cant even get pictures of the letter etc mailed to me to figure out what's going on. I live 200 miles away from them so going up there next week to try and sort things out and get a handle on things.
If it comes to it I will use some equity I have in my house and I will pay the £2.8k per month shortfall, I could cover it for a few years if need be, its my nan at the end of the day, she would do the same for me.
cheers
Edited by PostHeads123 on Friday 14th September 12:11
The decision support tool will be completed in a meeting with a nurse from the care home, and assessment nurse who does them everyday and assessment social worker.
The tool looks at areas where support is required and will determine what funding your nan is eligible for. The key thing in your situation is that a recent one has been completed and there haven't been any changes to her needs since, then the NHS and LA (nurse and social worker) will justify the funding given using the tool and be able to tell you what elements will be funded. The funding when split can be complex, but in terms of paying fees and continuing in the same home continuing care would be the best outcome, if she qualified for it the fees SHOULD be 100% covered.
Your best start would be to ask the home when her most recent DST was done, explaining the potential issues with her private funding which may be about to arise. You can also speak with the CCG (clinical commissioning group) and again explain that there have been changes to her finances and when a DST last occurred.
I hope it's simple and straightforward, as I say if she's somewhere she's happy and cared for then continuity is very important and the stress for families is awful.
The tool looks at areas where support is required and will determine what funding your nan is eligible for. The key thing in your situation is that a recent one has been completed and there haven't been any changes to her needs since, then the NHS and LA (nurse and social worker) will justify the funding given using the tool and be able to tell you what elements will be funded. The funding when split can be complex, but in terms of paying fees and continuing in the same home continuing care would be the best outcome, if she qualified for it the fees SHOULD be 100% covered.
Your best start would be to ask the home when her most recent DST was done, explaining the potential issues with her private funding which may be about to arise. You can also speak with the CCG (clinical commissioning group) and again explain that there have been changes to her finances and when a DST last occurred.
I hope it's simple and straightforward, as I say if she's somewhere she's happy and cared for then continuity is very important and the stress for families is awful.
I would advise you to consider the option of home care. The service here is much better, and it's cheaper than keeping her in the care house. We worked with Home Care educator from https://www.devotedhc.com/. We were pleased with their work and calm of our grandmother. It was easier to cope with dementia for her, staying in a cozy home atmosphere, where she has lived for many years and experienced a majority of positive emotions. There's only one caveat, your nan will have to live with you as she sold her house!
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