Legalities of Scottish and Irish notes.
Discussion
Strange one today.
Over in wales for a 2 night break with wife and little one for half term. Popped into a coffee shop for lunch, went to settle and notice a sign beside the till ‘cash only’. No problem, pulled a first trust £20 note out of my wallet to be told all Irish notes are now plastic (wrong) and they won’t accept it.
I did all the obvious such as point out sterling on it etc, eventually got to the point I said the food has been eaten so you can accept it or not. At that point we were “held” while higher management was called.
Eventually after much fuss the manager arrived and was a condescending prat despite me remaining polite at all times. They decided they would take it but asked us not to come back. Felt like literal dirt and at one point thought the police were going to be called, despite me suggesting they walk 5 mins to their bank branch and lodge it.
Google suggests the notes from Northern Ireland (home) and Scotland are not legal tender but are legal currency? What is the legalities of having no other means to pay? I’ll certinly be ordering some Bank of England notes next trip in case of emergency.
Over in wales for a 2 night break with wife and little one for half term. Popped into a coffee shop for lunch, went to settle and notice a sign beside the till ‘cash only’. No problem, pulled a first trust £20 note out of my wallet to be told all Irish notes are now plastic (wrong) and they won’t accept it.
I did all the obvious such as point out sterling on it etc, eventually got to the point I said the food has been eaten so you can accept it or not. At that point we were “held” while higher management was called.
Eventually after much fuss the manager arrived and was a condescending prat despite me remaining polite at all times. They decided they would take it but asked us not to come back. Felt like literal dirt and at one point thought the police were going to be called, despite me suggesting they walk 5 mins to their bank branch and lodge it.
Google suggests the notes from Northern Ireland (home) and Scotland are not legal tender but are legal currency? What is the legalities of having no other means to pay? I’ll certinly be ordering some Bank of England notes next trip in case of emergency.
If I recall correctly anyone can refuse notes as they are promissory in nature. You were in the right though if that’s any consolation, they are legal and should really be honoured.
The further south you go the worse it is for Scottish ones at least. Irish, NI, at least have always been a bit more problematic.
The further south you go the worse it is for Scottish ones at least. Irish, NI, at least have always been a bit more problematic.
irish boy said:
Over in wales.
I live in Scotland and am conscious of our 3 different Banks bank notes and careful when taking them south of the border. North of England sees OK but as you get to Yorkshire (there's another problem) or Lancashire then they become more difficult to pass.
Have been known to call into my bank and swop Scottish notes for English to make life easier.
irish boy said:
Strange one today.
Over in wales for a 2 night break with wife and little one for half term. Popped into a coffee shop for lunch, went to settle and notice a sign beside the till ‘cash only’. No problem, pulled a first trust £20 note out of my wallet to be told all Irish notes are now plastic (wrong) and they won’t accept it.
I did all the obvious such as point out sterling on it etc, eventually got to the point I said the food has been eaten so you can accept it or not. At that point we were “held” while higher management was called.
Eventually after much fuss the manager arrived and was a condescending prat despite me remaining polite at all times. They decided they would take it but asked us not to come back. Felt like literal dirt and at one point thought the police were going to be called, despite me suggesting they walk 5 mins to their bank branch and lodge it.
Google suggests the notes from Northern Ireland (home) and Scotland are not legal tender but are legal currency? What is the legalities of having no other means to pay? I’ll certinly be ordering some Bank of England notes next trip in case of emergency.
If I remember correctly, legal tender only refers to the settlement of debt. In a retail transaction, you are offering to buy a product and the retailer can refuse to sell, or refuse your means of payment as he sees fit. Over in wales for a 2 night break with wife and little one for half term. Popped into a coffee shop for lunch, went to settle and notice a sign beside the till ‘cash only’. No problem, pulled a first trust £20 note out of my wallet to be told all Irish notes are now plastic (wrong) and they won’t accept it.
I did all the obvious such as point out sterling on it etc, eventually got to the point I said the food has been eaten so you can accept it or not. At that point we were “held” while higher management was called.
Eventually after much fuss the manager arrived and was a condescending prat despite me remaining polite at all times. They decided they would take it but asked us not to come back. Felt like literal dirt and at one point thought the police were going to be called, despite me suggesting they walk 5 mins to their bank branch and lodge it.
Google suggests the notes from Northern Ireland (home) and Scotland are not legal tender but are legal currency? What is the legalities of having no other means to pay? I’ll certinly be ordering some Bank of England notes next trip in case of emergency.
Of course someone with more knowledge may correct
Foundthecure said:
If I remember correctly, legal tender only refers to the settlement of debt. In a retail transaction, you are offering to buy a product and the retailer can refuse to sell, or refuse your means of payment as he sees fit.
Of course someone with more knowledge may correct
Ok, say the police had come, at that point the complaint would have been I owed a debt for the food I’d eaten. I wonder can they still refuse it at that point, and what happens then. At one point I also offered to wash dishes......Of course someone with more knowledge may correct
irish boy said:
Ok, say the police had come, at that point the complaint would have been I owed a debt for the food I’d eaten. I wonder can they still refuse it at that point, and what happens then. At one point I also offered to wash dishes......
A valid point I agree, but I still think it would be down to you to find a means of payment the vendor was satisfied with. They should have made clear before hand, with a notice, that Scottish or Irish notes were not accepted. I worked in a Co Op when I was a student and they had a rule to not accept scottish notes. I didnt agree and used to accept them, but the reason you are not supposed to is because they cant be given back out as change/cashback and they have to be banked seperately (well they were supposed to but they just got bundled in with the others and collected by G4S and never got any complaints back from them!).
ATG said:
They don't have to accept Scottish notes in the same way they don't have to accept Bank of England notes either. They are pillocks offering s
te customer service for not doing so.
Or maybe they’d been burnt before with unfamiliar notes that turned out not to be genuine?te customer service for not doing so.As a retailer I find it’s just not that simple, especially with Irish notes - we see maybe 2 a year - how are you supposed to know if they’re even current notes? And with Scottish notes there are 3 different ones per £5, £10 and £20. We get no notification from the banks when they decide to update them.
I know that Scottish notes are not actually money and just a promise of the issuing bank to pay sterling for the note.
Indeed many contain the phrase "promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of xxx pounds sterling" or similar.
Ulster notes always cause trouble for retailers as they are uncommon in most places and formerly had a high volume of fakes. Additionally retailers find it harder to recycle them such as giving them out in change.
Indeed many contain the phrase "promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of xxx pounds sterling" or similar.
Ulster notes always cause trouble for retailers as they are uncommon in most places and formerly had a high volume of fakes. Additionally retailers find it harder to recycle them such as giving them out in change.
Not sure about the legalities but if they can’t be bothered to take cards (it isn’t difficult these days with the likes of iZettle) then you’d think they would accept any sterling notes.
When I worked for Tesco we took anything as long as it was real and sterling. You soon got a feel for notes (smell, paper quality etc) so even the Ulster Bank notes and the like were fine. Being in Scotland meant we had no issues accepting those. If people expect BOE notes to be accepted outside England then I think it simply common courtesy to accept other nations notes in England and Wales, it isn’t any more difficult to bank. Fair enough if a small outfit won’t take a £100 or even £50 due to issues with carrying that much change but smaller notes ought to be fine.
I’ve run into this nonsense myself. Waitrose in Cheltenham, big store so I was a bit taken aback when the checkout worker questioned by RBS £20. Supervisor was called and immediately told them to accept it at least.
When I worked for Tesco we took anything as long as it was real and sterling. You soon got a feel for notes (smell, paper quality etc) so even the Ulster Bank notes and the like were fine. Being in Scotland meant we had no issues accepting those. If people expect BOE notes to be accepted outside England then I think it simply common courtesy to accept other nations notes in England and Wales, it isn’t any more difficult to bank. Fair enough if a small outfit won’t take a £100 or even £50 due to issues with carrying that much change but smaller notes ought to be fine.
I’ve run into this nonsense myself. Waitrose in Cheltenham, big store so I was a bit taken aback when the checkout worker questioned by RBS £20. Supervisor was called and immediately told them to accept it at least.
colin79666 said:
Not sure about the legalities but if they can’t be bothered to take cards (it isn’t difficult these days with the likes of iZettle) then you’d think they would accept any sterling notes.
When I worked for Tesco we took anything as long as it was real and sterling. You soon got a feel for notes (smell, paper quality etc) so even the Ulster Bank notes and the like were fine. Being in Scotland meant we had no issues accepting those. If people expect BOE notes to be accepted outside England then I think it simply common courtesy to accept other nations notes in England and Wales, it isn’t any more difficult to bank. Fair enough if a small outfit won’t take a £100 or even £50 due to issues with carrying that much change but smaller notes ought to be fine.
I’ve run into this nonsense myself. Waitrose in Cheltenham, big store so I was a bit taken aback when the checkout worker questioned by RBS £20. Supervisor was called and immediately told them to accept it at least.
The Bank of England regulates the issue of bank notes by Scottish and NI banks. And given that only a Royal Mint coin is actually legal tender in Scotland (for the settlement of debt of course) obviously English money has to be accepted in Scotland (should the vendor wish to make a sale). When I worked for Tesco we took anything as long as it was real and sterling. You soon got a feel for notes (smell, paper quality etc) so even the Ulster Bank notes and the like were fine. Being in Scotland meant we had no issues accepting those. If people expect BOE notes to be accepted outside England then I think it simply common courtesy to accept other nations notes in England and Wales, it isn’t any more difficult to bank. Fair enough if a small outfit won’t take a £100 or even £50 due to issues with carrying that much change but smaller notes ought to be fine.
I’ve run into this nonsense myself. Waitrose in Cheltenham, big store so I was a bit taken aback when the checkout worker questioned by RBS £20. Supervisor was called and immediately told them to accept it at least.
A Scottish note has to be backed up with security in the Bank of England - theoretically you could give the BOE 10 million in security and print your own notes under their regulation - doesn’t mean I have to accept it, or that I would know if it was genuine or not
ATG said:
They don't have to accept Scottish notes in the same way they don't have to accept Bank of England notes either. They are pillocks offering ste customer service for not doing so.
I think they would have to accept a scottish note as the service had already been rendered, therefore legal tender rules apply.te customer service for not doing so.I will check which one it is, but one of the scottish banks has multiple versions of their 20 with slight variants, even their own website only shows the latest version so if you have an old one then it's difficult to tell if it's real. At work we use some electronic note checkers and have to constantly update them.
davebem said:
I worked in a Co Op when I was a student and they had a rule to not accept scottish notes. I didnt agree and used to accept them, but the reason you are not supposed to is because they cant be given back out as change/cashback and they have to be banked seperately (well they were supposed to but they just got bundled in with the others and collected by G4S and never got any complaints back from them!).
Not "banked separately" as such, but you must keep them separate from the English notes when putting them in the deposit bag. The reason for this is because the non-English notes weigh marginally heavier and as the full note bags (green = £500 in £5, blue = £1000 in £10, red = £1000 in £20) are weighed to check the amount is correct in the cash centres, if the weight is not within tolerance then it must be opened up and manually counted or run through the note counter which is time-consuming and affects internal targets. Because they are slightly thicker than English notes they jam in the note counters as well.I used to work in a cash processing centre and coincidentally we used to process all of Co-op's retail deposits so there's a fair chance I processed your takings at some point.
This used to irritate me greatly when I lived in London and returned there after weekends in Belfast.
In so many ways a hugely advanced, varied, progressive, multi-cultural, outward looking city - and in others full of odd little misers that'd hold a perfectly acceptable note from 400 miles away up to the light while they peer you at askance and mutter 'I can't accept this'.
fk off!
In so many ways a hugely advanced, varied, progressive, multi-cultural, outward looking city - and in others full of odd little misers that'd hold a perfectly acceptable note from 400 miles away up to the light while they peer you at askance and mutter 'I can't accept this'.
f
k off!Gary C said:
ATG said:
They don't have to accept Scottish notes in the same way they don't have to accept Bank of England notes either. They are pillocks offering ste customer service for not doing so.
I think they would have to accept a scottish note as the service had already been rendered, therefore legal tender rules apply.te customer service for not doing so.ATG said:
Gary C said:
ATG said:
They don't have to accept Scottish notes in the same way they don't have to accept Bank of England notes either. They are pillocks offering ste customer service for not doing so.
I think they would have to accept a scottish note as the service had already been rendered, therefore legal tender rules apply.te customer service for not doing so.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff