Pension denied!
Discussion
Many years ago I worked for a company that offered a DB pension. Not being too stupid I took the offer and paid in for the six years I was there.
When I left I was given a certificate from Standard Life showing my pension entitlement on retiring.
The company disappeared years ago and the pension was adopted by the company that took the business on. This happened a couple of times over the following years and the pension fund ended up with Xerox. During this time I received fund news letters.
Fast forward to early this year when I receive the forms to claim my pension. I did not respond initially as I had other issues to deal with. The company sent two more lots of forms. I spoke to them in the interim and explained the issues I had. I finally filled them in and sent them off and was told that the pension would be back dated as discussed.
Today I receive a letter saying that the trustees have decided that I have no retained benefit!
Any ideas as to how to proceed. I will phone them Monday for clarification and to find out what evidence I need, not that I have much, it was 27 years ago.
When I left I was given a certificate from Standard Life showing my pension entitlement on retiring.
The company disappeared years ago and the pension was adopted by the company that took the business on. This happened a couple of times over the following years and the pension fund ended up with Xerox. During this time I received fund news letters.
Fast forward to early this year when I receive the forms to claim my pension. I did not respond initially as I had other issues to deal with. The company sent two more lots of forms. I spoke to them in the interim and explained the issues I had. I finally filled them in and sent them off and was told that the pension would be back dated as discussed.
Today I receive a letter saying that the trustees have decided that I have no retained benefit!
Any ideas as to how to proceed. I will phone them Monday for clarification and to find out what evidence I need, not that I have much, it was 27 years ago.
Who did the final letter come from? I suspect it was likely to be the current administrators. Then:
1. Write to them and raise a complaint and what you want them to do to resolve your copmlaint. Set out why you are sure that you have a pension there, and send them copies of any documents in support of your claim. If this does not work......
2..Write back and ask for a copy of the formal Internal Complaints Dispute Resolution Procedure (IDRP). All pension arrangements must have an IDRP.
3. Once you have a copy of the IDRP and understand what's involved, contact the office of the Pensions Ombudsman and get their Early Resolution Service to start to assist you and give you guidance with your now formal complaint.
4. If the IDRP, your efforts, and those of the PO's ERS do not work, you can then ask the PO to formally adjudicate your complaint. The PO's decision is final, and most important of all, legally enforceable.
R.
1. Write to them and raise a complaint and what you want them to do to resolve your copmlaint. Set out why you are sure that you have a pension there, and send them copies of any documents in support of your claim. If this does not work......
2..Write back and ask for a copy of the formal Internal Complaints Dispute Resolution Procedure (IDRP). All pension arrangements must have an IDRP.
3. Once you have a copy of the IDRP and understand what's involved, contact the office of the Pensions Ombudsman and get their Early Resolution Service to start to assist you and give you guidance with your now formal complaint.
4. If the IDRP, your efforts, and those of the PO's ERS do not work, you can then ask the PO to formally adjudicate your complaint. The PO's decision is final, and most important of all, legally enforceable.
R.
Morrisboy,
Yes, lots of people don't keep all pension documents however trivial and regret not doing so later.
Sounds like you have kept a certificate showing your entitlement to a deferred pension at the time you left employment which is a good start, so send that to them along with your complaint letter. If they still say you have no entitlement ask them why they have come to that decision.
R.
Yes, lots of people don't keep all pension documents however trivial and regret not doing so later.
Sounds like you have kept a certificate showing your entitlement to a deferred pension at the time you left employment which is a good start, so send that to them along with your complaint letter. If they still say you have no entitlement ask them why they have come to that decision.
R.
The Leaper said:
Morrisboy,
Yes, lots of people don't keep all pension documents however trivial and regret not doing so later.
Sounds like you have kept a certificate showing your entitlement to a deferred pension at the time you left employment which is a good start, so send that to them along with your complaint letter. If they still say you have no entitlement ask them why they have come to that decision.
R.
Makd sure you send them a copy and keep the original safe or you may never see it again....!Yes, lots of people don't keep all pension documents however trivial and regret not doing so later.
Sounds like you have kept a certificate showing your entitlement to a deferred pension at the time you left employment which is a good start, so send that to them along with your complaint letter. If they still say you have no entitlement ask them why they have come to that decision.
R.
They will need to demonstrate you have no entitlement - at least, in light of your evidence that you have.
It could be that your pension was transferred out to a DC fund many years ago... or a winding up lump sum was paid etc. etc.
They have evidence your benefit is no longer with them or they've made a mistake. You won't be losing out.
It could be that your pension was transferred out to a DC fund many years ago... or a winding up lump sum was paid etc. etc.
They have evidence your benefit is no longer with them or they've made a mistake. You won't be losing out.
number2,
I disagree: it will be for the OP to be able to prove he has an entitlement to the pension. Unfortunately, there must be millions of statements/certificates in existence that were correct at the time of issue and are overtaken by events. Administrators and trustees do issue information about changes, including contacts etc, but often these do not get through because people change address and fail to advise the a/t, for example, and contact is lost.
That said, any evidence in support of a claim must be fully investigated after which the a/t must tell the person why their expectation has changed, eg a prior refund or a transfer, or if there's been any reorganisation where the pension responsibility now lies.
Where there is insufficient evidence either way, it is possible that after a full investigation of a formal complaint the Pensions Ombudsman may adjudicate in favour of either the complainant or the a/t. depending on the precise circumstances and accumulated evidence of each case. Many times the Pensions Ombudsman has not been able to decide and so has not been able to make an adjudication in favour of one party or another, so the complaint fails.
There are millions of unclaimed pensions. Very often this has happened because the person expecting the pension has moved and not told anyone, so the party responsible spends ages trying to make contact without success. Ideally, there should be a central record of all pensions so tracing would be easier. This has often been mooted by successive governments (it's a vote getter, maybe) but nobody has risen to what would be quite a challenge to set up.
R.
I disagree: it will be for the OP to be able to prove he has an entitlement to the pension. Unfortunately, there must be millions of statements/certificates in existence that were correct at the time of issue and are overtaken by events. Administrators and trustees do issue information about changes, including contacts etc, but often these do not get through because people change address and fail to advise the a/t, for example, and contact is lost.
That said, any evidence in support of a claim must be fully investigated after which the a/t must tell the person why their expectation has changed, eg a prior refund or a transfer, or if there's been any reorganisation where the pension responsibility now lies.
Where there is insufficient evidence either way, it is possible that after a full investigation of a formal complaint the Pensions Ombudsman may adjudicate in favour of either the complainant or the a/t. depending on the precise circumstances and accumulated evidence of each case. Many times the Pensions Ombudsman has not been able to decide and so has not been able to make an adjudication in favour of one party or another, so the complaint fails.
There are millions of unclaimed pensions. Very often this has happened because the person expecting the pension has moved and not told anyone, so the party responsible spends ages trying to make contact without success. Ideally, there should be a central record of all pensions so tracing would be easier. This has often been mooted by successive governments (it's a vote getter, maybe) but nobody has risen to what would be quite a challenge to set up.
R.
I don't think we do disagree - as you say, it's who has the strongest evidence. For the trustees to claim there is no retained benefit they must have evidence - or they don't, and it's a mistake. In the latter case the member's evidence of a retained benefit will be sufficient. I have presided over scheme windups (in an actuarial capacity) and that's how it worked when reconciling membership records/benefits.
I agree, we don’t disagree.
Having dealt with many formal complaints regarding tracing pensions, the usual starting position is someone has an old certificate and the trustees have no records when the pension is claimed…and that’s if the pension arrangement still exists. Investigations often lead to a succession of past events being revealed, involving several successor pension arrangements, administrators, insurance companies etc. Enquiries can be made to DWP and HMRC also. This often takes months: the period to takes to get as much information as possible should not be underestimated. If no party accepts responsibility and the Pensions Ombudsman is asked for an adjudication, he may and often does decide that he cannot determine that there is a party he can identify as being responsible, based on all the information accumulated.
I take your point that for administration and management purposes the administrators/actuary/trustees may need to decide themselves whether or not a claim should be recognised so that for such events as wind us that you mention progress to a conclusion can be achieved. However, some time after that event the pension will be claimed and it is then when the decision must be made by the administrators/trustees, or in the case of a past wind up an insurance company, whether to accept the evidence produced at that time or not, and that’s when the complaint is likely to be formalised
R.
Having dealt with many formal complaints regarding tracing pensions, the usual starting position is someone has an old certificate and the trustees have no records when the pension is claimed…and that’s if the pension arrangement still exists. Investigations often lead to a succession of past events being revealed, involving several successor pension arrangements, administrators, insurance companies etc. Enquiries can be made to DWP and HMRC also. This often takes months: the period to takes to get as much information as possible should not be underestimated. If no party accepts responsibility and the Pensions Ombudsman is asked for an adjudication, he may and often does decide that he cannot determine that there is a party he can identify as being responsible, based on all the information accumulated.
I take your point that for administration and management purposes the administrators/actuary/trustees may need to decide themselves whether or not a claim should be recognised so that for such events as wind us that you mention progress to a conclusion can be achieved. However, some time after that event the pension will be claimed and it is then when the decision must be made by the administrators/trustees, or in the case of a past wind up an insurance company, whether to accept the evidence produced at that time or not, and that’s when the complaint is likely to be formalised
R.
I've been on hols for a week and had an update part way through.
I had a missed call from a number that looked familiar to a previous call to the administrators. So I called it back.
It transpired that they had done 'some work' to clear out the files and guess what! They had 'crossed wires', my pension will start this month, backdated to March. Result.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
I had a missed call from a number that looked familiar to a previous call to the administrators. So I called it back.
It transpired that they had done 'some work' to clear out the files and guess what! They had 'crossed wires', my pension will start this month, backdated to March. Result.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
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