Protected Tenancy Question
Discussion
(Unsure if this is the right forum, so mods please move if needed)
The below Reddit post has popped up on my Twitter-sphere this morning and I'm interested to know the views from PHers. My social circle is fairly/very left-leaning, while I know the PH swings the other way in general and it would be good to get some balance.
Most of my left-leaning acquaintances are landlord-bashing as expected and saying things like "landlords crying over rent act tenancies make my day" etc. None are really able to offer a practical solution other than just saying that the landlord "should" fulfil his legal obligations to honour the tenancy, despite not making a profit; "no one has the right to a profit".
And I understand what the landlord is looking to do in the post is illegal.
On the other hand, he inherited this, it was in place prior to his birth, and as I understand it, the tenant cannot be evicted even if the property is sold so in effect the asset has no value, as no one will want to buy it and make a loss. If the landlord simply stops maintaining the property he'll be fined/jailed/punished whatever, but the property still isn't being maintained, and the tenant has to either live in an unmaintained home or move out anyway. So what is the practical (/legal) solution?
The below Reddit post has popped up on my Twitter-sphere this morning and I'm interested to know the views from PHers. My social circle is fairly/very left-leaning, while I know the PH swings the other way in general and it would be good to get some balance.
Most of my left-leaning acquaintances are landlord-bashing as expected and saying things like "landlords crying over rent act tenancies make my day" etc. None are really able to offer a practical solution other than just saying that the landlord "should" fulfil his legal obligations to honour the tenancy, despite not making a profit; "no one has the right to a profit".
And I understand what the landlord is looking to do in the post is illegal.
On the other hand, he inherited this, it was in place prior to his birth, and as I understand it, the tenant cannot be evicted even if the property is sold so in effect the asset has no value, as no one will want to buy it and make a loss. If the landlord simply stops maintaining the property he'll be fined/jailed/punished whatever, but the property still isn't being maintained, and the tenant has to either live in an unmaintained home or move out anyway. So what is the practical (/legal) solution?
There's no easy answer. The rents under old protected tenancies are astoundingly cheap by modern standards - no wonder the tenant always pays on time and never wants to move! There's the rub.
Landlord maintenance will inevitably be at the "bare mininum" level - unless the landlord fancies himself as a charity worker. Most don't.
There are some legitimate reasons that can be used to remove a protected tenant - for instance, if the landlord wants to live in the property himself. However, the landlord is generally obliged to provide suitable alternative accommodation for the tenant on the same basis as previously.
It's all a historical accident but as there are no votes in it nothing is likely to change. On the other hand, Comrade Corbyn is keen to revert to a world of greater tenant protection and rent controls....
Landlord maintenance will inevitably be at the "bare mininum" level - unless the landlord fancies himself as a charity worker. Most don't.
There are some legitimate reasons that can be used to remove a protected tenant - for instance, if the landlord wants to live in the property himself. However, the landlord is generally obliged to provide suitable alternative accommodation for the tenant on the same basis as previously.
It's all a historical accident but as there are no votes in it nothing is likely to change. On the other hand, Comrade Corbyn is keen to revert to a world of greater tenant protection and rent controls....
These are always cheap, and inevitably only very basically maintained. In other words, they're usually dumps. They are also usually occupied by old or oldish people. So if the worst comes to the worst and they're direct descendants of Methuselah or they're married etc to a teenager, as the landlord you've bought a lo-maintenance growth asset for your grandkid.
The three standard ways to get possession are 1) wait till they croak
2) bribe them to leave
3) offer a far better property (ideally in same area if that's important)
Another common way, especially if the oldster is entitled to benefits, is to ask the tenant to leave temporarily whilst the place is totally refurbed on agreement that they can return as the tenant for life on a new normal lease.
These are all amicable solutions. So before buying it's important to ascertain the tenant 's attitude. If it's hostile then don't buy it.
I've never bought one, but I have a friend who loves them. He's never had one go bad on him.
eta: wouldn't advise it unless its an addition to a decent portfolio. ie definitely not as My First BTL etc.
ps: the attention of those with socialist leanings should be drawn to the general quality and standard of ordinary average people's dwellings in socialist states. 'T ain't great it has to be said.
The three standard ways to get possession are 1) wait till they croak
2) bribe them to leave
3) offer a far better property (ideally in same area if that's important)
Another common way, especially if the oldster is entitled to benefits, is to ask the tenant to leave temporarily whilst the place is totally refurbed on agreement that they can return as the tenant for life on a new normal lease.
These are all amicable solutions. So before buying it's important to ascertain the tenant 's attitude. If it's hostile then don't buy it.
I've never bought one, but I have a friend who loves them. He's never had one go bad on him.
eta: wouldn't advise it unless its an addition to a decent portfolio. ie definitely not as My First BTL etc.
ps: the attention of those with socialist leanings should be drawn to the general quality and standard of ordinary average people's dwellings in socialist states. 'T ain't great it has to be said.
Edited by Groat on Thursday 31st October 16:47
Groat said:
These are always cheap, and inevitably only very basically maintained. In other words, they're usually dumps. They are also usually occupied by old or oldish people. And the number of people looking forward to moving into a dump their parent died in isn't huge either. I don't know the stat, but the number moving into the dump their parent inherited via THEIR parent is probably minute. And a 4th generation takeover is probably unknown. So if the worst comes to the worst as the landlord you've bought a lo-maintenance growth asset for your grandkid.
The three standard ways to get possession are 1) wait till they croak
2) bribe them to leave
3) offer a far better property (ideally in same area if that's important)
Another common way, especially if the oldster is entitled to benefits, is to ask the tenant to leave temporarily whilst the place is totally refurbed on agreement that they can return as the tenant for life on a new normal lease.
These are all amicable solutions. So before buying it's important to ascertain the tenant 's attitude. If it's hostile then don't buy it.
I've never bought one, but I have a friend who loves them. He's never had one go bad on him.
eta: wouldn't advise it unless its an addition to a decent portfolio. ie definitely not as My First BTL etc.
ps: the attention of those with socialist leanings should be drawn to the general quality and standard of ordinary average people's dwellings in socialist states. 'T ain't great it has to be said.
Are you sure that a child has the right to acquire a protected tenancy? The three standard ways to get possession are 1) wait till they croak
2) bribe them to leave
3) offer a far better property (ideally in same area if that's important)
Another common way, especially if the oldster is entitled to benefits, is to ask the tenant to leave temporarily whilst the place is totally refurbed on agreement that they can return as the tenant for life on a new normal lease.
These are all amicable solutions. So before buying it's important to ascertain the tenant 's attitude. If it's hostile then don't buy it.
I've never bought one, but I have a friend who loves them. He's never had one go bad on him.
eta: wouldn't advise it unless its an addition to a decent portfolio. ie definitely not as My First BTL etc.
ps: the attention of those with socialist leanings should be drawn to the general quality and standard of ordinary average people's dwellings in socialist states. 'T ain't great it has to be said.
Edited by Groat on Thursday 31st October 15:00
Husband/ Wife/ Civil Partner yes 100% agreement, they have an absolute right to stay on the existing terms.
I was always under the impression that other family members had a right to take on the tenancy, but as an AST. Para 3 of the 1977 ACT. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/42/schedu...
nikaiyo2 said:
Are you sure that a child has the right to acquire a protected tenancy?
Husband/ Wife/ Civil Partner yes 100% agreement, they have an absolute right to stay on the existing terms.
I was always under the impression that other family members had a right to take on the tenancy, but as an AST. Para 3 of the 1977 ACT. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/42/schedu...
Absolutely not my special subject so you could well be right. Husband/ Wife/ Civil Partner yes 100% agreement, they have an absolute right to stay on the existing terms.
I was always under the impression that other family members had a right to take on the tenancy, but as an AST. Para 3 of the 1977 ACT. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/42/schedu...
(superficial googling suggests you are, so I'll amend my post!)
Edited by Groat on Thursday 31st October 16:44
nikaiyo2 said:
Are you sure that a child has the right to acquire a protected tenancy?
Husband/ Wife/ Civil Partner yes 100% agreement, they have an absolute right to stay on the existing terms.
I was always under the impression that other family members had a right to take on the tenancy, but as an AST. Para 3 of the 1977 ACT. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/42/schedu...
That's what I thought also. It certainly is in the case of a tenant of mine. Clearly states tenancy can be passed to husband/wife/companion. Thankfully my tenant is 73 years old and single. I can't see them getting married any time soon as he's a grumpy fHusband/ Wife/ Civil Partner yes 100% agreement, they have an absolute right to stay on the existing terms.
I was always under the impression that other family members had a right to take on the tenancy, but as an AST. Para 3 of the 1977 ACT. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/42/schedu...
ker
. Mind you, stranger things have happened
He will only leave for the following reasons
-He stops paying the rent - I can then evict through the courts
-He surrenders the tenancy - This simply isn't going to happen. He is fully aware of his rights. He knows if he continues paying his rent on time then I can not evict him.
-I buy his tenancy rights off him. This isn't going to happen, he simply doesn't want to move with his cheap(!) rent
-He dies
TBH I'm getting a 6.8% so am happy enough
Edited by Sir Bagalot on Thursday 31st October 22:34
Groat said:
Absolutely not my special subject so you could well be right.
(superficial googling suggests you are, so I'll amend my post!)
Phew! I have my eye on one going to auction in a few weeks. Passing to kids would have put me right off (superficial googling suggests you are, so I'll amend my post!)
Edited by Groat on Thursday 31st October 16:44
Sir Bagalot said:
That's what I thought also. It certainly is in the case of a tenant of mine. Clearly states tenancy can be passed to husband/wife/companion. Thankfully my tenant is 73 years old and single. I can't see them getting married any time soon as he's a grumpy fker. Mind you, stranger things have happened.
Send the old bker. Mind you, stranger things have happened.Edited by Sir Bagalot on Thursday 31st October 22:34
d this for Xmas. https://www.amazon.co.uk/NICHOLAS-VAN-HOOGSTRATEN-...
(used hardback for 0.50p obviously)
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