Possible you dispute Deed of Covenant (hugely in my favour)
Discussion
Hi gents,
Been a looooong time since I posted. About 5 years – exactly to the day when I met the woman I was due to marry in 5 weeks. Since last week…I’m single. It went titsup and may get acrimonious because my partner, sorry ex-partner, (a solicitor) insisted we have Deed of Covenant. This we did. Facts are:
She’s owned our house for 18 years. I moved in 4 years ago.
We took out a joint mortgage for 260k to pay her ex-husband off
I paid the mortgage off every month for the 10 months it’s been live and will continue to do so.
She is guaranteed 340k from the sale
Incredibly, the DoC states the surplus (over 600) is split in the ratio of mortgage payments made. i.e. over 600 I get the lot.
The house is worth minimum 750. Potentially 800.
So I get 150 to 200 before costs.
I’ve been to a lawyer in London (by phone at least) and he’s charging 500 plus VAT to write two letters – one is the schedule of marketing the house etc. The other is without prejudice to say I’ll consider making it right with her once the sale’s gone through.
The DoC is morally indefensible of course but…I don’t want to walk away from 150k – even if it is after just 10 months. She’s being pretty mean here in Brighton and….that’s not helping, Last week we had one hell of a ding-dong and she wanted to transfer me money to help with the mortgage. I said no way – you send me dosh I’ll send it right back. She also said her 19 yr old (lovely lad – still getting on well) wanted to sleep in her room as she was scared. I asked if she’d ever been physically scared of me and she said no. I made a note on my phone and took a shot of the time. I also told her I was doing this.
I didn’t want the agreement and she insisted. I didn’t even take legal advice on it (I know J)
Question – has anyone ever had a DoC disputed? My solicitor says it’s perfectly legally enforceable but he charges £££ so more looking for PH’ers experience. I did get the impression that he’d be very happy to assist if it ever wrong so real-life experiences would be really useful.
Also…I’m incredibly miserable
Thank you
Richard
Been a looooong time since I posted. About 5 years – exactly to the day when I met the woman I was due to marry in 5 weeks. Since last week…I’m single. It went titsup and may get acrimonious because my partner, sorry ex-partner, (a solicitor) insisted we have Deed of Covenant. This we did. Facts are:
She’s owned our house for 18 years. I moved in 4 years ago.
We took out a joint mortgage for 260k to pay her ex-husband off
I paid the mortgage off every month for the 10 months it’s been live and will continue to do so.
She is guaranteed 340k from the sale
Incredibly, the DoC states the surplus (over 600) is split in the ratio of mortgage payments made. i.e. over 600 I get the lot.
The house is worth minimum 750. Potentially 800.
So I get 150 to 200 before costs.
I’ve been to a lawyer in London (by phone at least) and he’s charging 500 plus VAT to write two letters – one is the schedule of marketing the house etc. The other is without prejudice to say I’ll consider making it right with her once the sale’s gone through.
The DoC is morally indefensible of course but…I don’t want to walk away from 150k – even if it is after just 10 months. She’s being pretty mean here in Brighton and….that’s not helping, Last week we had one hell of a ding-dong and she wanted to transfer me money to help with the mortgage. I said no way – you send me dosh I’ll send it right back. She also said her 19 yr old (lovely lad – still getting on well) wanted to sleep in her room as she was scared. I asked if she’d ever been physically scared of me and she said no. I made a note on my phone and took a shot of the time. I also told her I was doing this.
I didn’t want the agreement and she insisted. I didn’t even take legal advice on it (I know J)
Question – has anyone ever had a DoC disputed? My solicitor says it’s perfectly legally enforceable but he charges £££ so more looking for PH’ers experience. I did get the impression that he’d be very happy to assist if it ever wrong so real-life experiences would be really useful.
Also…I’m incredibly miserable
Thank you
Richard
Edited by DickusMaximus on Monday 18th May 15:05
20k so far and 2.5k a month over the previous few years paying all bills including an extra 1k a month for fun stuff. So easily 100k all in but yes only 20 on the actual mortgage in q. I dunno...I’ll make it right though. But after the sale.
The solicitor was more could concerned that she would just sell the gaff for 600 as she has nothing to gain over that so it could get awkward.
The solicitor was more could concerned that she would just sell the gaff for 600 as she has nothing to gain over that so it could get awkward.
Edited by DickusMaximus on Monday 18th May 15:26
Okay. The first thing to ask is why you entered into the DoC, when you did it, and how it was served?
It may be morally indefensible, but it may also be legally binding.
Obviously you are in a highly charged emotional place right now, but all this is going to do is increase your legal fees further (over 90% of divorce lawyer fees are emotional, rather than practical).
The crux lies in the DoC clauses and - even then - the Family Court ruling. It was obviously a pre-marital asset to begin with, but it appears it became a marital asset.
However, the marriage appears to be very short, so this will also be considered. You don't mention children, so I assume there are not any (this would make a huge difference).
As your (soon to be) ex-wife is a solicitor I would expect every angle to be covered, but most of the time this is - surprisingly - not the case at all..
Please feel free to PM me.
It may be morally indefensible, but it may also be legally binding.
Obviously you are in a highly charged emotional place right now, but all this is going to do is increase your legal fees further (over 90% of divorce lawyer fees are emotional, rather than practical).
The crux lies in the DoC clauses and - even then - the Family Court ruling. It was obviously a pre-marital asset to begin with, but it appears it became a marital asset.
However, the marriage appears to be very short, so this will also be considered. You don't mention children, so I assume there are not any (this would make a huge difference).
As your (soon to be) ex-wife is a solicitor I would expect every angle to be covered, but most of the time this is - surprisingly - not the case at all..
Please feel free to PM me.
DickusMaximus said:
Hi gents,
Been a looooong time since I posted. About 5 years – exactly to the day when I met the woman I was due to marry in 5 weeks. Since last week…I’m single. It went titsup and may get acrimonious because my partner, sorry ex-partner, (a solicitor) insisted we have Deed of Covenant. This we did. Facts are:
She’s owned our house for 18 years. I moved in 4 years ago.
We took out a joint mortgage for 260k to pay her ex-husband off
I paid the mortgage off every month for the 10 months it’s been live and will continue to do so.
She is guaranteed 340k from the sale
Incredibly, the DoC states the surplus (over 600) is split in the ratio of mortgage payments made. i.e. over 600 I get the lot.
The house is worth minimum 750. Potentially 800.
So I get 150 to 200 before costs.
I’ve been to a lawyer in London (by phone at least) and he’s charging 500 plus VAT to write two letters – one is the schedule of marketing the house etc. The other is without prejudice to say I’ll consider making it right with her once the sale’s gone through.
The DoC is morally indefensible of course but…I don’t want to walk away from 150k – even if it is after just 10 months. She’s being pretty mean here in Brighton and….that’s not helping, Last week we had one hell of a ding-dong and she wanted to transfer me money to help with the mortgage. I said no way – you send me dosh I’ll send it right back. She also said her 19 yr old (lovely lad – still getting on well) wanted to sleep in her room as she was scared. I asked if she’d ever been physically scared of me and she said no. I made a note on my phone and took a shot of the time. I also told her I was doing this.
I didn’t want the agreement and she insisted. I didn’t even take legal advice on it (I know J)
Question – has anyone ever had a DoC disputed? My solicitor says it’s perfectly legally enforceable but he charges £££ so more looking for PH’ers experience. I did get the impression that he’d be very happy to assist if it ever wrong so real-life experiences would be really useful.
Also…I’m incredibly miserable
Thank you
Richard
Just in case he wobbles.Been a looooong time since I posted. About 5 years – exactly to the day when I met the woman I was due to marry in 5 weeks. Since last week…I’m single. It went titsup and may get acrimonious because my partner, sorry ex-partner, (a solicitor) insisted we have Deed of Covenant. This we did. Facts are:
She’s owned our house for 18 years. I moved in 4 years ago.
We took out a joint mortgage for 260k to pay her ex-husband off
I paid the mortgage off every month for the 10 months it’s been live and will continue to do so.
She is guaranteed 340k from the sale
Incredibly, the DoC states the surplus (over 600) is split in the ratio of mortgage payments made. i.e. over 600 I get the lot.
The house is worth minimum 750. Potentially 800.
So I get 150 to 200 before costs.
I’ve been to a lawyer in London (by phone at least) and he’s charging 500 plus VAT to write two letters – one is the schedule of marketing the house etc. The other is without prejudice to say I’ll consider making it right with her once the sale’s gone through.
The DoC is morally indefensible of course but…I don’t want to walk away from 150k – even if it is after just 10 months. She’s being pretty mean here in Brighton and….that’s not helping, Last week we had one hell of a ding-dong and she wanted to transfer me money to help with the mortgage. I said no way – you send me dosh I’ll send it right back. She also said her 19 yr old (lovely lad – still getting on well) wanted to sleep in her room as she was scared. I asked if she’d ever been physically scared of me and she said no. I made a note on my phone and took a shot of the time. I also told her I was doing this.
I didn’t want the agreement and she insisted. I didn’t even take legal advice on it (I know J)
Question – has anyone ever had a DoC disputed? My solicitor says it’s perfectly legally enforceable but he charges £££ so more looking for PH’ers experience. I did get the impression that he’d be very happy to assist if it ever wrong so real-life experiences would be really useful.
Also…I’m incredibly miserable
Thank you
Richard
Edited by DickusMaximus on Monday 18th May 15:05
Today is my designated naughty day
JulianPH said:
Okay. The first thing to ask is why you entered into the DoC, when you did it, and how it was served?
It may be morally indefensible, but it may also be legally binding.
Obviously you are in a highly charged emotional place right now, but all this is going to do is increase your legal fees further (over 90% of divorce lawyer fees are emotional, rather than practical).
The crux lies in the DoC clauses and - even then - the Family Court ruling. It was obviously a pre-marital asset to begin with, but it appears it became a marital asset.
However, the marriage appears to be very short, so this will also be considered. You don't mention children, so I assume there are not any (this would make a huge difference).
As your (soon to be) ex-wife is a solicitor I would expect every angle to be covered, but most of the time this is - surprisingly - not the case at all..
Please feel free to PM me.
There is no marriage as far as I can tell from the op It may be morally indefensible, but it may also be legally binding.
Obviously you are in a highly charged emotional place right now, but all this is going to do is increase your legal fees further (over 90% of divorce lawyer fees are emotional, rather than practical).
The crux lies in the DoC clauses and - even then - the Family Court ruling. It was obviously a pre-marital asset to begin with, but it appears it became a marital asset.
However, the marriage appears to be very short, so this will also be considered. You don't mention children, so I assume there are not any (this would make a huge difference).
As your (soon to be) ex-wife is a solicitor I would expect every angle to be covered, but most of the time this is - surprisingly - not the case at all..
Please feel free to PM me.
JPJPJP said:
There is no marriage as far as I can tell from the op
It was this bit:"About 5 years – exactly to the day when I met the woman I was due to marry in 5 weeks. Since last week…I’m single"
I agree, this does not mean they are married.
Not sure which way this will go, but I am happy to help the OP as far as I can.
“the DoC states the surplus (over 600) is split in the ratio of mortgage payments made. i.e. over 600 I get the lot.”
I’m not expecting you to post the contract, but is mortgage payments defined as being just the joint mortgage or all mortgage payments ever. She has presumably made them for years prior to your arrival.
Can you post the key clause and relevant definitions?
I’m not expecting you to post the contract, but is mortgage payments defined as being just the joint mortgage or all mortgage payments ever. She has presumably made them for years prior to your arrival.
Can you post the key clause and relevant definitions?
Having had the time to look at this again this morning there is a lot more unanswered here than answered.
I think what we have so far is that your ex has owned this house for 18 years, your have been living in it for 4 years, but you only started to contribute financially towards as joint mortgage 10 months ago.
You don't mention a previous mortgage or that this one is a second charge, so presumably you have spent the first 3 years living there for free.
You now want to force her to sell her family home of 18 years where her son (who you say is lovely) grew up, to financially enrich yourself?
I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I did such a thing and I think you need to get things into perspective.
Yes, it is legally enforceable (as your solicitor has already confirmed to you) but you are quite right when you say it is morally indefensible.
Let her get on with her life before you both met and do the same yourself.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but without knowing other facts it sounds like you have done pretty well out of this financially already.
I think what we have so far is that your ex has owned this house for 18 years, your have been living in it for 4 years, but you only started to contribute financially towards as joint mortgage 10 months ago.
You don't mention a previous mortgage or that this one is a second charge, so presumably you have spent the first 3 years living there for free.
You now want to force her to sell her family home of 18 years where her son (who you say is lovely) grew up, to financially enrich yourself?
I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I did such a thing and I think you need to get things into perspective.
Yes, it is legally enforceable (as your solicitor has already confirmed to you) but you are quite right when you say it is morally indefensible.
Let her get on with her life before you both met and do the same yourself.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but without knowing other facts it sounds like you have done pretty well out of this financially already.
Morning,
The calculation relates only to this new joint mortgage and this is the share part:
The shares shall be calculated as follows:
2.2.1
Totalling the contributions of S to arrive at the total contributions of
Serena (“S’s Contributions”);
2.2.2
Totalling the contributions of R to arrive at the total contributions of
R (“R’s Contributions”);
2.2.3
Adding together S’s Contributions and R’s Contributions to
arrive at the combined contributions;
2.2.4
Dividing the net proceeds of sale by the combined contributions to arrive
at the surplus;
2.2.5
Multiplying the total contribution of each party by the surplus to arrive at
the share.
The calculation relates only to this new joint mortgage and this is the share part:
The shares shall be calculated as follows:
2.2.1
Totalling the contributions of S to arrive at the total contributions of
Serena (“S’s Contributions”);
2.2.2
Totalling the contributions of R to arrive at the total contributions of
R (“R’s Contributions”);
2.2.3
Adding together S’s Contributions and R’s Contributions to
arrive at the combined contributions;
2.2.4
Dividing the net proceeds of sale by the combined contributions to arrive
at the surplus;
2.2.5
Multiplying the total contribution of each party by the surplus to arrive at
the share.
JulianPH said:
Having had the time to look at this again this morning there is a lot more unanswered here than answered.
I think what we have so far is that your ex has owned this house for 18 years, your have been living in it for 4 years, but you only started to contribute financially towards as joint mortgage 10 months ago.
You don't mention a previous mortgage or that this one is a second charge, so presumably you have spent the first 3 years living there for free.
You now want to force her to sell her family home of 18 years where her son (who you say is lovely) grew up, to financially enrich yourself?
I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I did such a thing and I think you need to get things into perspective.
Yes, it is legally enforceable (as your solicitor has already confirmed to you) but you are quite right when you say it is morally indefensible.
Let her get on with her life before you both met and do the same yourself.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but without knowing other facts it sounds like you have done pretty well out of this financially already.
I paid her 2500 a month when I moved in - 1500 for all bills and her mortgage plus 1000 extra for fun things. She is a public sector solicitor and had I not moved in she would have had to sell and move to a flat - which is what will now happen.I think what we have so far is that your ex has owned this house for 18 years, your have been living in it for 4 years, but you only started to contribute financially towards as joint mortgage 10 months ago.
You don't mention a previous mortgage or that this one is a second charge, so presumably you have spent the first 3 years living there for free.
You now want to force her to sell her family home of 18 years where her son (who you say is lovely) grew up, to financially enrich yourself?
I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I did such a thing and I think you need to get things into perspective.
Yes, it is legally enforceable (as your solicitor has already confirmed to you) but you are quite right when you say it is morally indefensible.
Let her get on with her life before you both met and do the same yourself.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but without knowing other facts it sounds like you have done pretty well out of this financially already.
We need to sell the house to pay off the mortgage
I’ll make it right - definitely - but first I want to know where I stand
Edited by DickusMaximus on Tuesday 19th May 07:44
AyBee said:
Can you send her my details please? I'm happy to buy the house for £600k and then sell for £750k and split the difference with her 
In all seriousness, no idea who drafted it, but if it does say that and she knows it, I'd be carefully watching for the above!
It’s pretty much sorted. I’m off and taking back what I put in. Way too much hassle. Renting for 6 moons will be sIn all seriousness, no idea who drafted it, but if it does say that and she knows it, I'd be carefully watching for the above!
t but I just want out.Thank you
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