Crispin Odey

[bitchstewie]

Does anyone have money in any of his funds?

Crispin Odey readies emergency plan as assault trial looms

Has this sort of situation happened before?

[JulianPH]

Probably not by Monday!

I've never heard of this before.

The last (unrelated) big court case of a fund manager was Peter Young, at Morgan Grenfell, for conspiracy to defraud.

He turned up in court wearing a skirt, wig and make up, claiming he was mentally and legally incompetent to defend his trial!



It worked for him though, as whilst he was found guilty the judge voided the verdict due to reasons of insanity!

[Simpo Two]

'It would involve shutting the flagship European fund he manages and returning the money to investors.'

Why not just find a new manager? What is the CG position if investors suddenly get a chunk of money back they hadn't planned for through no fault of their own?

[DonkeyApple]

The business has an obligation to deliver a continuation plan for a major event. At this moment in time it is no more than the making public of that.

[NickCQ]

Simpo Two said:

'It would involve shutting the flagship European fund he manages and returning the money to investors.'
Why not just find a new manager? What is the CG position if investors suddenly get a chunk of money back they hadn't planned for through no fault of their own?

Presumably there is a 'key man' clause in the fund documents. There is unlikely to be a capital gains event if the portfolio is fire-sold to get cash back ASAP!

[JulianPH]

NickCQ said:

Simpo Two said:

'It would involve shutting the flagship European fund he manages and returning the money to investors.'
Why not just find a new manager? What is the CG position if investors suddenly get a chunk of money back they hadn't planned for through no fault of their own?

Presumably there is a 'key man' clause in the fund documents. There is unlikely to be a capital gains event if the portfolio is fire-sold to get cash back ASAP!

John is right, if the fund is shut and money returned to investors it would indeed be a CGT event.

However, if the fund simply moved everything into cash, it wouldn't until people withdrew their money.

Obviously the above would not apply to pension or ISA funds.

[NickCQ]

JulianPH said:

John is right, if the fund is shut and money returned to investors it would indeed be a CGT event.

My point was slightly sarcastic.. if forced selling causes heavy losses, there will be no capital gain and no CGT to worry about (except the potential value of the offset)

[JulianPH]

NickCQ said:

JulianPH said:

John is right, if the fund is shut and money returned to investors it would indeed be a CGT event.

My point was slightly sarcastic.. if forced selling causes heavy losses, there will be no capital gain and no CGT to worry about (except the potential value of the offset)

Ah!!!

[Cheib]

NickCQ said:

Simpo Two said:

'It would involve shutting the flagship European fund he manages and returning the money to investors.'
Why not just find a new manager? What is the CG position if investors suddenly get a chunk of money back they hadn't planned for through no fault of their own?

Presumably there is a 'key man' clause in the fund documents. There is unlikely to be a capital gains event if the portfolio is fire-sold to get cash back ASAP!

Fund should be marked to market based on liquidity of positions...e.g. if you have a position ten times daily market volume it should be marked at a discount to market to reflect that and allow an orderly unwind. Reality is in most major equity, fixed income and commodities markets a fund like Odey’s would be able to liquidate relatively easily. When you are dealing with Mid/Small Cap equities and the Credit/Bond markets things get a lot more difficult.

[NickCQ]

Cheib said:

Reality is in most major equity, fixed income and commodities markets a fund like Odey’s would be able to liquidate relatively easily. When you are dealing with Mid/Small Cap equities and the Credit/Bond markets things get a lot more difficult.

Hard to get fixed income exposure without touching the bond market...
My understanding of Odey's strategy is that he does have a few concentrated "conviction" positions in small cap names but obviously nowhere near as illiquid as what Woodford was playing with.

[Cheib]

NickCQ said:

Cheib said:

Reality is in most major equity, fixed income and commodities markets a fund like Odey’s would be able to liquidate relatively easily. When you are dealing with Mid/Small Cap equities and the Credit/Bond markets things get a lot more difficult.

Hard to get fixed income exposure without touching the bond market...
My understanding of Odey's strategy is that he does have a few concentrated "conviction" positions in small cap names but obviously nowhere near as illiquid as what Woodford was playing with.

When I was referring to Fixed Income I was referring to the Govt Bond markets which are relatively liquid and probably where Odey would express his macro views of the world. Credit?Bond markets was referring to the corporate bond market which is much less liquid....can literally be impossible to liquidate positions.

[DonkeyApple]

Most of his stuff will be shorts won’t they?

[Cheib]

DonkeyApple said:

Most of his stuff will be shorts won’t they?

Depends on the instrument....plenty of bear trades where you are long an instrument in rates for example.