UK Cost of Living
Discussion
Hi All
Looking for some advice/experience...
We are currently expats living in Asia with a 2 year old son. I am 45 this year and the prospect of renting a small apartment until I am 60 to pay for school fees is kind of depressing. So we are thinking of moving back to the UK in the next couple of years. I haven't lived in the UK since 2010, when I was a single guy, so the living costs associated with a couple and small child are a bit outside of my experience. We have been trying to work out what our baseline expenses would be, and were wondering how accurate the below are likely to be - 60k seems like a lot of money considering when I left the UK that was my annual pretax salary!
Note that we will need to visit my wife's family in Asia once a year, so the budget for holidays is quite large. Having seen the quality of private healthcare in Asia (amazing) we will also need to have health insurance (that's non-negotiable for my wife to move back)
I am assuming no mortgage costs as we should have enough to get something livable in the commuter belt (Surrey Hills) for cash.
(All costs per annum)
Car Lease 3,000
Car Tax 300
Petrol 1,200
Insurance 600
Servicing 1,000
Holidays 12,000
Golf 2,000
Commute (will try and avoid this as I like WFH) 4,000
Health Insurance 4,500
Council Tax (3 bed, Surrey commuter town) 2,250
House Maintenance and Insurance 2,000
Utilities 2,000
Food (would like to eat out twice a week, and buy good quality ingredients) 20,000
Child clothes and toys 2,000
Misc Expenses 3,000
Total - 60k!
Looking for some advice/experience...
We are currently expats living in Asia with a 2 year old son. I am 45 this year and the prospect of renting a small apartment until I am 60 to pay for school fees is kind of depressing. So we are thinking of moving back to the UK in the next couple of years. I haven't lived in the UK since 2010, when I was a single guy, so the living costs associated with a couple and small child are a bit outside of my experience. We have been trying to work out what our baseline expenses would be, and were wondering how accurate the below are likely to be - 60k seems like a lot of money considering when I left the UK that was my annual pretax salary!
Note that we will need to visit my wife's family in Asia once a year, so the budget for holidays is quite large. Having seen the quality of private healthcare in Asia (amazing) we will also need to have health insurance (that's non-negotiable for my wife to move back)
I am assuming no mortgage costs as we should have enough to get something livable in the commuter belt (Surrey Hills) for cash.
(All costs per annum)
Car Lease 3,000
Car Tax 300
Petrol 1,200
Insurance 600
Servicing 1,000
Holidays 12,000
Golf 2,000
Commute (will try and avoid this as I like WFH) 4,000
Health Insurance 4,500
Council Tax (3 bed, Surrey commuter town) 2,250
House Maintenance and Insurance 2,000
Utilities 2,000
Food (would like to eat out twice a week, and buy good quality ingredients) 20,000
Child clothes and toys 2,000
Misc Expenses 3,000
Total - 60k!
I live in the Surrey Hills area. I see that you are planning to live here too. For reference, the price of a four bedroomed detached house will vary between £700,000 and £900,000 or so, for nothing particularly exceptional. Rightmove's website will give you a good indication of prices here.
R.
R.
Thanks for the responses so far.
The housing budget is about 700k, we might take a small mortgage if the place is worth pushing the budget for.
Re childcare, my wife runs a business here that she can keep going from the Uk for a bit of income, and would only go back to work once he’s in primary school
I agree food is on the steep side - but my wife likes to eat out. We’d be having at least 2 meals out a week, but we don’t drink much.
Golf - probably won’t be a cost until he’s older, but I’ve looked at good courses in Surrey and it looks about right for a good course.
The housing budget is about 700k, we might take a small mortgage if the place is worth pushing the budget for.
Re childcare, my wife runs a business here that she can keep going from the Uk for a bit of income, and would only go back to work once he’s in primary school
I agree food is on the steep side - but my wife likes to eat out. We’d be having at least 2 meals out a week, but we don’t drink much.
Golf - probably won’t be a cost until he’s older, but I’ve looked at good courses in Surrey and it looks about right for a good course.
Zstar said:
Lol - that was my thought which is a major reason behind why I’m posting this!
Whilst £20k sounds a lot as a lump sum, it may not be too far off.My wife spends circa £150 a week on shopping (Morrisons) for four of us, which works out at circa £7,800.
We would in normal times, eat out once a weekend (TGI Fridays etc etc) which would be +/- £100 for two adults and two kids, with a bottle of wine perhaps. Doing that every weekend gets you to circa £5,200. Eat out twice and thats doubled......moreso if eating in higher end places......... £20k is probably about right based on what the OP sounds like he's used to.............
Sarnie said:
Whilst £20k sounds a lot as a lump sum, it may not be too far off.
My wife spends circa £150 a week on shopping (Morrisons) for four of us, which works out at circa £7,800.
We would in normal times, eat out once a weekend (TGI Fridays etc etc) which would be +/- £100 for two adults and two kids, with a bottle of wine perhaps. Doing that every weekend gets you to circa £5,200. Eat out twice and thats doubled......moreso if eating in higher end places......... £20k is probably about right based on what the OP sounds like he's used to.............
Not a good comparison, he has a 2 year old child. My wife spends circa £150 a week on shopping (Morrisons) for four of us, which works out at circa £7,800.
We would in normal times, eat out once a weekend (TGI Fridays etc etc) which would be +/- £100 for two adults and two kids, with a bottle of wine perhaps. Doing that every weekend gets you to circa £5,200. Eat out twice and thats doubled......moreso if eating in higher end places......... £20k is probably about right based on what the OP sounds like he's used to.............
I'd think 12k a year would be ample tbh
rockin said:
£36,000 a year to lease a car? A petrol head can buy a decent car for that money. Keep it 6 years and pocket a saving of £180,000
Nothing in for school fees? Nice fund available just by driving a different car. Stick a £1,500 personal plate on it if you're worried you might feel shy at parents evening.
Think you missed this part in the OP's opening post; Nothing in for school fees? Nice fund available just by driving a different car. Stick a £1,500 personal plate on it if you're worried you might feel shy at parents evening.
(All costs per annum)
Car Lease 3,000
£12k to fly 3 people to Asia seems a lot if you're staying with family.
Also £2k on child's clothes and toys, but I'm not a parent.
If you want to lease a car can you find one that includes service costs?
And apparently the rest of the world marvels at the NHS and wishes they had one, so maybe PHI is a luxury for now. If you have savings, pay for private care if you need it, otherwise pocket the cash.
More WFH would save commuting; guess that depends on your employer and nature of job.
Also £2k on child's clothes and toys, but I'm not a parent.
If you want to lease a car can you find one that includes service costs?
And apparently the rest of the world marvels at the NHS and wishes they had one, so maybe PHI is a luxury for now. If you have savings, pay for private care if you need it, otherwise pocket the cash.
More WFH would save commuting; guess that depends on your employer and nature of job.
Private health care - depends on sector, some offer private health care for free or an option to buy via the Corporate benefit scheme such as Flex, where you have a basic cover, but you can purchase additional cover so the total cost can vary. Even so, I still feel your £4.5k estimate is excessive.
Car - you can lease / PCP a premium family car from £500/600 per month, so your £3k / month is way off (unless you are quoting your local rate as I believe car ownership in Singapore is astronomical). You may have issue getting credit though as did my friend who returned to the UK. He couldn't get credit so he bought a battered old Jag off a fellow golfer, and so suffered 2 years of constant (friendly) abuse from us whenever he pulled up in the car park
I suggest setting aside a budget to buy a car outright on your return.
Sidenote: A few work colleagues and one golfing friend (*) moved to Singapore (your profile state you are in Singapore) through work transfers in the Investment Banking industry. Two have settled permanently in Singapore and one has returned to the UK. Despite been on a "local" wage (at Director level), the general message is that Singapore provides a slightly better living standard compared to the UK e.g. eat out is cheap, house maid is cheap, golfing weekend trip to Thailand is cheap, but other luxuries like cars and private educations is expensive.
(*)
Brit guy + Brit wife - Stayed
Brit guy + Singapore wife - Stayed
Brit guy + Thai wife - Moved back to UK
Car - you can lease / PCP a premium family car from £500/600 per month, so your £3k / month is way off (unless you are quoting your local rate as I believe car ownership in Singapore is astronomical). You may have issue getting credit though as did my friend who returned to the UK. He couldn't get credit so he bought a battered old Jag off a fellow golfer, and so suffered 2 years of constant (friendly) abuse from us whenever he pulled up in the car park
I suggest setting aside a budget to buy a car outright on your return. Sidenote: A few work colleagues and one golfing friend (*) moved to Singapore (your profile state you are in Singapore) through work transfers in the Investment Banking industry. Two have settled permanently in Singapore and one has returned to the UK. Despite been on a "local" wage (at Director level), the general message is that Singapore provides a slightly better living standard compared to the UK e.g. eat out is cheap, house maid is cheap, golfing weekend trip to Thailand is cheap, but other luxuries like cars and private educations is expensive.
(*)
Brit guy + Brit wife - Stayed
Brit guy + Singapore wife - Stayed
Brit guy + Thai wife - Moved back to UK
Edited by chip* on Sunday 21st March 15:38
I would say servicing and car tax are high, as is petrol consumption if you are using the train to commute (based on this cost being separate).
I would expect health insurance to be in your employers benefits package if you are netting >£60k pa.
Food sounds expensive, we spend £100 pw on supermarket shop (delivered, would be cheaper I store shopping). Couple plus toddler. We eat reasonably well, without being silly about it or drinking excessively. Not spending anything going out atm. Would you take your child or need to pay for a baby sitter? That might cost £50 an evening.
Children's clothes and toys sounds expensive.
Might cost £100 for family annual wildlife park membership.
I would expect health insurance to be in your employers benefits package if you are netting >£60k pa.
Food sounds expensive, we spend £100 pw on supermarket shop (delivered, would be cheaper I store shopping). Couple plus toddler. We eat reasonably well, without being silly about it or drinking excessively. Not spending anything going out atm. Would you take your child or need to pay for a baby sitter? That might cost £50 an evening.
Children's clothes and toys sounds expensive.
Might cost £100 for family annual wildlife park membership.
Zstar said:
(All costs per annum)
Car Lease 3,000
Car Tax 300
Petrol 1,200
Insurance 600
Servicing 1,000
Holidays 12,000
Golf 2,000
Commute (will try and avoid this as I like WFH) 4,000
Health Insurance 4,500
Council Tax (3 bed, Surrey commuter town) 2,250
House Maintenance and Insurance 2,000
Utilities 2,000
Food (would like to eat out twice a week, and buy good quality ingredients) 20,000
Child clothes and toys 2,000
Misc Expenses 3,000
Total - 60k!
Car Lease 3,000Car Lease 3,000
Car Tax 300
Petrol 1,200
Insurance 600
Servicing 1,000
Holidays 12,000
Golf 2,000
Commute (will try and avoid this as I like WFH) 4,000
Health Insurance 4,500
Council Tax (3 bed, Surrey commuter town) 2,250
House Maintenance and Insurance 2,000
Utilities 2,000
Food (would like to eat out twice a week, and buy good quality ingredients) 20,000
Child clothes and toys 2,000
Misc Expenses 3,000
Total - 60k!
Car Tax 0 - included in the lease.
Petrol 1,200
Insurance 600 - seems quite high, but plausible if you are adding the wife to the car, no NCB etc.
Servicing 1,000 - be included in the lease, no? £0.
Holidays 12,000 - for 3 people to get to Asia and back, staying with family?! Flights are £600 per person, no idea where the other £10k is going.
Golf 2,000
Commute (will try and avoid this as I like WFH) 4,000 - £85 per week based on 47 weeks a year - £17/day. Are you getting an uber there and back?
Health Insurance 4,500 - NHS is pretty good, and your job may include health care. Either way, £4k seems a lot.
Council Tax (3 bed, Surrey commuter town) 2,250
House Maintenance and Insurance 2,000 - Again, seems high. Contents insurance is what, £150/£200? If your renting then maintenance is not your problem.
Utilities 2,000
Food (would like to eat out twice a week, and buy good quality ingredients) 20,000 - £380/week is very high. Supermarket spend will be £150/200, so you're out for 2*£100 meals per week. Every week?
Child clothes and toys 2,000
Misc Expenses 3,000
Total - 60k!
I know this is Pistonheads where £1500 is just a good night out and everyone wears a Rolex Pepsi as their "beater watch", but £20K a year on food and £12K a year on holidays?
That is the equivalent take home from a £42K a year job just for food and holidays.
Just wow, I must be more out of touch with things than I thought.
That is the equivalent take home from a £42K a year job just for food and holidays.
Just wow, I must be more out of touch with things than I thought.
Thanks for all the feedback. I totally agree that the food budget is insane, which is why I wanted to get some real world feedback, as we’ve only been back to the UK for holidays and eaten out twice a day, every day for a fortnight, so my wife’s perception is somewhat skewed! I’d be upset if we spent half of that in reality.
Insurance is non negotiable - her mum passed away of cancer and her fear is that the NHS won’t cover us (or won’t treat us well enough). The other concern is that if I do leave work then I’ll lose my coverage, and any preexisting conditions won’t be covered.
Holidays - I was factoring in 2 trips a year - one winter trip to Asia (unlikely to stay with family the whole time, and would want to travel around) and another European summer holiday plus other weekends away to make the most of our time in the UK
For commuting and cars, I’m also a bit unsure - I really don’t intend to do more than one day a week in London, so I can probably reduce both that and petrol as the plan is to live close enough to a High Street so that we can walk if needed. I’m certainly not planning on spending 3k a month on a car but I love the PH logic!
My man maths says that 40k should be enough for a family of 3 to live a good standard of life in the South East, as looking at property we’d need to take on a small mortgage to get the location and style of property that I suspect we will want.
Insurance is non negotiable - her mum passed away of cancer and her fear is that the NHS won’t cover us (or won’t treat us well enough). The other concern is that if I do leave work then I’ll lose my coverage, and any preexisting conditions won’t be covered.
Holidays - I was factoring in 2 trips a year - one winter trip to Asia (unlikely to stay with family the whole time, and would want to travel around) and another European summer holiday plus other weekends away to make the most of our time in the UK
For commuting and cars, I’m also a bit unsure - I really don’t intend to do more than one day a week in London, so I can probably reduce both that and petrol as the plan is to live close enough to a High Street so that we can walk if needed. I’m certainly not planning on spending 3k a month on a car but I love the PH logic!
My man maths says that 40k should be enough for a family of 3 to live a good standard of life in the South East, as looking at property we’d need to take on a small mortgage to get the location and style of property that I suspect we will want.
Zstar said:
Thanks for all the feedback. I totally agree that the food budget is insane, which is why I wanted to get some real world feedback, as we’ve only been back to the UK for holidays and eaten out twice a day, every day for a fortnight, so my wife’s perception is somewhat skewed! I’d be upset if we spent half of that in reality.
How much PHers spend on food comes up quite a bit and the range is enormous. My missus mostly does weekly shopping in M&S and buys meat and other stuff that you never knew you needed from Costco. She uses other supermarkets from time to time as she thinks it throws me off the scent, but household cleaning stuff etc, which most people include as it's bought in supermarkets, adds up too.She does also buy odd food items for our grandchildren. She easily spends £300/wk. We don't drink at home so there's no chunky alcohol spend in there. A meal in the two local chain gastro-pub, a couple of drinks and the tip was getting towards a £100 last time we were able to do it.
So I don't think your £20K is wrong by any means. But we had someone in a previous discussion who reckoned his family of 4 spent £20/wk and they could eat out for £8.
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