Discussion
Forgive me if posted to the wrong section, couldn't see a property thread. I am in the South/South West of the country.
I bought my property a few years ago from a developer who renovated the place. He also kept hold of a large parcel of land that would have been my back garden as well as side access (where my garage would have been) to the road. I have a right of access to drive my car across it to park and also right of access to walk down the side into my back garden/rear entry.
Quite an unsavoury character, he was rejected planning 2 years ago to build a 1 bed bungalow on the land with a heap of good reasons for the rejection- that won't go away (environmental, access etc). He's now decided to auction the land. The guide price has been set at £20k - which is quite marvellous given every estate agent locally has advised me it was near worthless to anyone but myself due to the lack of planning permission. When I have enquired previously to buy the land the developer has demanded £20k so that's where the figure has come from I suspect.
I'm currently short on getting my hands on that money in the next fortnight. I guess I have two questions:
- Would it make sense to take short term finance to buy the land? (it would add about £20k in value to my house, but looks like a builder's scrapyard at the moment so would need more money spent on it after)
- Do these types of lots 'always' sell at auction or is there a good chance it will remain unsold given it has planning rejected?
I bought my property a few years ago from a developer who renovated the place. He also kept hold of a large parcel of land that would have been my back garden as well as side access (where my garage would have been) to the road. I have a right of access to drive my car across it to park and also right of access to walk down the side into my back garden/rear entry.
Quite an unsavoury character, he was rejected planning 2 years ago to build a 1 bed bungalow on the land with a heap of good reasons for the rejection- that won't go away (environmental, access etc). He's now decided to auction the land. The guide price has been set at £20k - which is quite marvellous given every estate agent locally has advised me it was near worthless to anyone but myself due to the lack of planning permission. When I have enquired previously to buy the land the developer has demanded £20k so that's where the figure has come from I suspect.
I'm currently short on getting my hands on that money in the next fortnight. I guess I have two questions:
- Would it make sense to take short term finance to buy the land? (it would add about £20k in value to my house, but looks like a builder's scrapyard at the moment so would need more money spent on it after)
- Do these types of lots 'always' sell at auction or is there a good chance it will remain unsold given it has planning rejected?
Skyedriver said:
a) Yes
b) not sure, depends upon the actual area the plot is located I suspect. Is it actually big enough to add another dwelling? He may not get planning under any circumstances but that's not to say someone else with a little more "nous" can't.
That's what I'm afraid of. b) not sure, depends upon the actual area the plot is located I suspect. Is it actually big enough to add another dwelling? He may not get planning under any circumstances but that's not to say someone else with a little more "nous" can't.
The previous plans overlapped with a tree with protected status that is on the land. It would be hard for any plan to not do so unless they were to move the foundations to a point where access to the site would be unworkable. In theory. I know in Central London people often get past this issue.
Never underestimate the appeal of land which 'may' get planning, however unlikely, in the future. I've just been involved in one in Sussex, 5 acres of agricultural land which had a log cabin on it illegally, worth £50k tops to anyone half sensible as the LA are very anti development, but, nearby land has just gained planning - result? Just sold at auction last week for £380k.
OP: I'd do everything I could to buy it for £20k, if only for the peace of mind that you aren't going to have someone trying to get planning & build something.
It will not only increase the value of your property (even if it only washes its face) but it will make it much more appealing should you want to sell as buyers won't get put off by the shared access & prospect of someone building behind their new house.
It will not only increase the value of your property (even if it only washes its face) but it will make it much more appealing should you want to sell as buyers won't get put off by the shared access & prospect of someone building behind their new house.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The price isn't the point. Securing the deal is. If he'll deal then comes the next q. OTOH if he says "no" then it's in the hands of fate who gets it, and the next chance the OP will have to get it at any price is if it doesn't make the owner's figure and he doesn't want it back in next month's auction.
Of course 'guide price' is pretty meaningless. And if the owner will accept pre-auction offers then he'll also have a price he's happy with.
Thanks for all the responses, replying back on some of the questions:
plot size hasn't been listed but looking out of my window it's roughly 10m x 20m with an access strip (think rectangle with a car width lane extending out the end). In the corner is a large protected Sycamore tree.
It's registered as a garden so I wouldn't have to change the use, if anything he's actually breaking the rules by using it as a builder's yard currently.
I was trying to sell my house a few months ago (gave up because buyers wanted the land too) and he quoted £20k. He's quoted me that price previously too.
Issue for me is that the 'piece of mind' of just buying for c£20k is then the stress of having to find that money.
plot size hasn't been listed but looking out of my window it's roughly 10m x 20m with an access strip (think rectangle with a car width lane extending out the end). In the corner is a large protected Sycamore tree.
It's registered as a garden so I wouldn't have to change the use, if anything he's actually breaking the rules by using it as a builder's yard currently.
I was trying to sell my house a few months ago (gave up because buyers wanted the land too) and he quoted £20k. He's quoted me that price previously too.
Issue for me is that the 'piece of mind' of just buying for c£20k is then the stress of having to find that money.
anotherbigspender said:
I've no idea of your financial circumstances but £20k is c. £350 a month over 5 years with most high street lenders. Assuming you are credit worthy then it can be set up very quickly.
Indeed it's comparatively peanuts, but the idea of paying £350 a month for a garden would make me pretty resentful every day it rains! pb8g09 said:
anotherbigspender said:
I've no idea of your financial circumstances but £20k is c. £350 a month over 5 years with most high street lenders. Assuming you are credit worthy then it can be set up very quickly.
Indeed it's comparatively peanuts, but the idea of paying £350 a month for a garden would make me pretty resentful every day it rains! I have bought properties at auction. My suggestions in your particular situation are,
At/before the auction there should be a pack of legal documents available setting out the seller's Title to the property and similar important information. It's worth paying a fee (if necessary) to get online access to that in advance so that you can run it past a solicitor if necessary.
To avoid the risk of getting carried away and bidding too much take someone with you to the auction who knows your intended maximum bid and can kick you firmly on the shins if necessary.
- Don't make a pre-auction offer
- Attend the auction (with a clear maximum bid in mind)
- Buy the land
At/before the auction there should be a pack of legal documents available setting out the seller's Title to the property and similar important information. It's worth paying a fee (if necessary) to get online access to that in advance so that you can run it past a solicitor if necessary.
To avoid the risk of getting carried away and bidding too much take someone with you to the auction who knows your intended maximum bid and can kick you firmly on the shins if necessary.
pb8g09 said:
anotherbigspender said:
I've no idea of your financial circumstances but £20k is c. £350 a month over 5 years with most high street lenders. Assuming you are credit worthy then it can be set up very quickly.
Indeed it's comparatively peanuts, but the idea of paying £350 a month for a garden would make me pretty resentful every day it rains! You'd be mad to let this go to auction. If you buy it at auction there'll be all sorts of fees (you may even end up paying the sellers fees) & maybe VAT as well. Someone who doesn't know the planning history might jump on it & manage to the the TPO lifted - sycamores are non-native giant weeds.
There is more at play here than just the value of the land. If you bought it, it would
1) Remove the stress of ‘what if ....’ someone else gets it. Chances are it will be someone who wants to built which could significantly impact your current aspect if planning passed and TPO removed
2) Remove the shared access problem. Any property which has shared access for me is a no no as it typically just means problems
3) Give you a bigger back garden which always nice
4) Hopefully add some value to your property.
Personally I wouldn’t leave it to chance and would put in a pre-auction offer. You have a lot to potentially loose if you don’t get it. There is no saying the offer will be accepted but how would you feel if you did nothing and a developer got it and got plans passed
1) Remove the stress of ‘what if ....’ someone else gets it. Chances are it will be someone who wants to built which could significantly impact your current aspect if planning passed and TPO removed
2) Remove the shared access problem. Any property which has shared access for me is a no no as it typically just means problems
3) Give you a bigger back garden which always nice
4) Hopefully add some value to your property.
Personally I wouldn’t leave it to chance and would put in a pre-auction offer. You have a lot to potentially loose if you don’t get it. There is no saying the offer will be accepted but how would you feel if you did nothing and a developer got it and got plans passed
There is another way to view this which is that you bought your home with its current garden size and access criteria so are happy with the garden and access as is. That's ultimately your base line.
£20k to get more garden than you initially were perfectly happy with and to resolve an access set up that you've to date had zero issue with.
Only you know the value of your house in relation to the value of this little plot of land. There's a certain point where it is an absolutely no brainer to buy as it will add far more value to the property, then there is that mid point where it is likely to aid with the speed of a sale and getting asking easily before you get to the point that it actually adds no additional value close to that £20k and the associated ongoing costs.
At this moment in time you have a small plot next to you that is owned by someone you don't like and that is being used as a dumping ground. Someone else buying it in the hopes to build isn't likely to make that plot look worse. Plus if they do accidentally kill that tree and build a bungalow you get a marginally improved view but more importantly no future buyer of your property will get messed in the head asking you to buy that property for them and throw it in for free to get the deal done.
Arguably, it sounds like you have pretty much the worst scenario at present and that any of the most obvious outcomes will actually be an improvement.
Who knows what a bit in-fill land will go for at auction. Maybe only smart bidders will turn up in the day and appreciate that it's a gamble and that their money might be locked up for far longer than they wish or maybe the hall is full of drunks, gamblers and people with access to other people's money and they bid it to kingdom come.
I guess you probably need to work out what that land is genuinely worth to you. You mention that you recently looked at selling so maybe you need to try and calculate what it is really worth there and attend the auction but stick to that value come what may. On the surface the vendor has for some time believed that it is worth £20k to you and you are the only person who has a clear use for it so that would suggest on the open market it's worth a lot less and maybe you'll get it for that open market value instead of the premium you'd have to pay direct. If you don't want to pay the higher price of what it is worth to you personally then I'm not sure you have too much to lose and if someone smashes the price up then there's nothing you could have done about it anyway?
£20k to get more garden than you initially were perfectly happy with and to resolve an access set up that you've to date had zero issue with.
Only you know the value of your house in relation to the value of this little plot of land. There's a certain point where it is an absolutely no brainer to buy as it will add far more value to the property, then there is that mid point where it is likely to aid with the speed of a sale and getting asking easily before you get to the point that it actually adds no additional value close to that £20k and the associated ongoing costs.
At this moment in time you have a small plot next to you that is owned by someone you don't like and that is being used as a dumping ground. Someone else buying it in the hopes to build isn't likely to make that plot look worse. Plus if they do accidentally kill that tree and build a bungalow you get a marginally improved view but more importantly no future buyer of your property will get messed in the head asking you to buy that property for them and throw it in for free to get the deal done.
Arguably, it sounds like you have pretty much the worst scenario at present and that any of the most obvious outcomes will actually be an improvement.
Who knows what a bit in-fill land will go for at auction. Maybe only smart bidders will turn up in the day and appreciate that it's a gamble and that their money might be locked up for far longer than they wish or maybe the hall is full of drunks, gamblers and people with access to other people's money and they bid it to kingdom come.
I guess you probably need to work out what that land is genuinely worth to you. You mention that you recently looked at selling so maybe you need to try and calculate what it is really worth there and attend the auction but stick to that value come what may. On the surface the vendor has for some time believed that it is worth £20k to you and you are the only person who has a clear use for it so that would suggest on the open market it's worth a lot less and maybe you'll get it for that open market value instead of the premium you'd have to pay direct. If you don't want to pay the higher price of what it is worth to you personally then I'm not sure you have too much to lose and if someone smashes the price up then there's nothing you could have done about it anyway?
Just to add, don't put too much faith in trees with TPOs stopping planning.
There is a plot of land behind the houses on our road that was previously a garden to a large house in the next road. It has (had) at least 10 trees with TPOs including several Oaks.
Everyone in the road objected to an application to build four new houses there, but that didn't stop it getting granted. Several (at least 5) of the trees with TPOs have already been felled. TPOs are not the stop-all that many people think they are. At least not for scumbag developers.
There is a plot of land behind the houses on our road that was previously a garden to a large house in the next road. It has (had) at least 10 trees with TPOs including several Oaks.
Everyone in the road objected to an application to build four new houses there, but that didn't stop it getting granted. Several (at least 5) of the trees with TPOs have already been felled. TPOs are not the stop-all that many people think they are. At least not for scumbag developers.
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