Nursery fees - sharp practice?

[Blown2CV]

We had a house purchase in process, and this was in a different area to where we currently live. We paid an 50 quid 'admin fee' to a nursery local to the house, in order to secure a place for our son. We couldn't confirm the timeline to the nursery so they basically said get back to us when you know more. We'd loosely said that September was likely to the earliest date, and this was back in April. As far the admin workload, i would say it was fairly light for them. Perhaps consisting mainly of making a note that we had paid 50 quid...

The house purchase then fell through in early June, and so we said to the nursery that we no longer require the place. Even if they had secured a September place this would still be 3 months notice, but he didn't actually have a place at that point anyway, so we hoped they'd just say ok well here's your 50 back. Nope - "non-refundable".

After looking into it, I can see that there are a large number of nurseries and childcare arrangements that are totally shafting people on additional fees and suchlike, and several have been prosecuted for going beyond what is permissable by law. We are by no means at the worst end of peoples' experiences, and obviously in the grand scheme of how much a failed purchase might cost it is a small amount, I but i still feel aggrieved.

Any tips?

thanks

[robbieduncan]

It was a fee not a deposit.

[Blown2CV]

robbieduncan said:

It was a fee not a deposit.

yes but they had no admin to do, therefore it is an unreasonable or at the very least disproportionate fee.

[NickCQ]

I suppose this should be in SP&L but what is the complaint here - that they didn't tell you it was non-refundable or that it doesn't bear relation to the amount of work they had to do?

On the first point, the word "fee" is a pretty big hint that it's a fee not a deposit, and on the second point it's perfectly legal to charge reservation fees - it compensates them not only for the admin cost but also for the risk that they can't fill the place if you back out nearer the time. Perhaps calling it an "admin fee" is a little misleading, but I don't know whether that has bearing on the validity of your claim.

[Countdown]

Blown2CV said:

robbieduncan said:

It was a fee not a deposit.

yes but they had no admin to do, therefore it is an unreasonable or at the very least disproportionate fee.

If there was no admin to do why did you pay an admin fee?

[vulture1]

£50 to basicly hold a place that they could have given to another to kid and now you are not taking the place and want the £50 back?

[fat80b]

I think £50 to reserve a place for your son that you didn't take up is an absolute bargain.

It can be a nightmare getting into a nursery and one of our friends stumped up a month up front only to then change their mind and go to a different one ! They didn't get that back either.

I also think the £50 is not particularly unreasonable, when you think they took phonecalls, probably had you round for a visit, added names to lists etc etc, and potentially told others that they couldn't have a space because you had it reserved, I think you could say they provided a lot for only £50.

[Blown2CV]

Countdown said:

Blown2CV said:

robbieduncan said:

It was a fee not a deposit.

yes but they had no admin to do, therefore it is an unreasonable or at the very least disproportionate fee.

If there was no admin to do why did you pay an admin fee?

because there would be admin to do had we progressed the house purchase to completion and actually moved to the area, and therefore confirmed the nursery place....?

[Blown2CV]

vulture1 said:

£50 to basicly hold a place that they could have given to another to kid and now you are not taking the place and want the £50 back?

no it wasn't that at all, there was no place held. We didn't confirm with them a date, and even if we had done for Sept, there is still 3 months to give it to someone else??

[Blown2CV]

fat80b said:

I think £50 to reserve a place for your son that you didn't take up is an absolute bargain.

It can be a nightmare getting into a nursery and one of our friends stumped up a month up front only to then change their mind and go to a different one ! They didn't get that back either.

I also think the £50 is not particularly unreasonable, when you think they took phonecalls, probably had you round for a visit, added names to lists etc etc, and potentially told others that they couldn't have a space because you had it reserved, I think you could say they provided a lot for only £50.

they didn't do any of those things.

[tighnamara]

Blown2CV said:

vulture1 said:

£50 to basicly hold a place that they could have given to another to kid and now you are not taking the place and want the £50 back?

no it wasn't that at all, there was no place held. We didn't confirm with them a date, and even if we had done for Sept, there is still 3 months to give it to someone else??

I would just write the £50 off, I’m sure they charge the £50 so they have some way of controlling and planning numbers.

This is what you said, “We paid an 50 quid 'admin fee' to a nursery local to the house, in order to secure a place for our son. We couldn't confirm the timeline to the nursery so they basically said get back to us when you know more. We'd loosely said that September was likely to the earliest date”

I take it the above “in order to secure a place” as securing a place or maybe I am reading it incorrectly.

[Blown2CV]

tighnamara said:

Blown2CV said:

vulture1 said:

£50 to basicly hold a place that they could have given to another to kid and now you are not taking the place and want the £50 back?

no it wasn't that at all, there was no place held. We didn't confirm with them a date, and even if we had done for Sept, there is still 3 months to give it to someone else??

I would just write the £50 off, I’m sure they charge the £50 so they have some way of controlling and planning numbers.

This is what you said, “We paid an 50 quid 'admin fee' to a nursery local to the house, in order to secure a place for our son. We couldn't confirm the timeline to the nursery so they basically said get back to us when you know more. We'd loosely said that September was likely to the earliest date”

I take it the above “in order to secure a place” as securing a place or maybe I am reading it incorrectly.

it's a bit like the argument for restaurants charging booking fees to secure a table. Except if you cancel more than 3 days before the date, you get it back. In this case we never even had a table, and hadn't even agreed a date. I am sure nursery admin fees are partly to filter out those who aren't 'serious' but it shouldn't be there to punish those who have acted reasonably. It isn't like nurseries leave a certain amount of places free for 'walk ins' on the day is it. This is the context that nurseries don't really want to offer the free hours (we don't even qualify for the full hit) so they've been clawing back what they can get. Some nurseries have even been charging for access to the free hours, which is illegal. I hear some in London are charging 4-figures 'deposit' which they only return when the kid leaves... like 4 years later... and only if they didn't break any rules and and. Ours is a bit less like the mafia but it's on the same spectrum in my opinion.

[Countdown]

Blown2CV said:

Countdown said:

Blown2CV said:

robbieduncan said:

It was a fee not a deposit.

yes but they had no admin to do, therefore it is an unreasonable or at the very least disproportionate fee.

If there was no admin to do why did you pay an admin fee?

because there would be admin to do had we progressed the house purchase to completion and actually moved to the area, and therefore confirmed the nursery place....?

So why not pay the admin when you confirmed the nursery place? There must have been a reason for you to agree to pay so far in advance, especially when there was still the possibility that you might not need the place?

AFAICS it looks like a reservation fee.

[Blown2CV]

Countdown said:

Blown2CV said:

Countdown said:

Blown2CV said:

robbieduncan said:

It was a fee not a deposit.

yes but they had no admin to do, therefore it is an unreasonable or at the very least disproportionate fee.

If there was no admin to do why did you pay an admin fee?

because there would be admin to do had we progressed the house purchase to completion and actually moved to the area, and therefore confirmed the nursery place....?

So why not pay the admin when you confirmed the nursery place? There must have been a reason for you to agree to pay so far in advance, especially when there was still the possibility that you might not need the place?

AFAICS it looks like a reservation fee.

well this is part of the issue really... they implied that if we didn't pay then we would be likely not get a place, but even if we did pay we aren't actually fully reserving a place until we confirm a date... i think they were kind of saying that if we'd paid then they'd somehow manage to fit us in, but they can't confirm until we confirm. However I am not sure what would happen if they took a number of admin fees more than they could ever hope to ultimately create places from, although it would in a way be sensible from their perspective to hedge it a bit. Unless of course they never get full, in which case they lied as to the reason to pay a fee 6+ months early.

[NickCQ]

Blown2CV said:

However I am not sure what would happen if they took a number of admin fees more than they could ever hope to ultimately create places from

Airlines overbook all the time (or at least they did pre-COVID!) and it's perfectly legal.

Blown2CV said:

Unless of course they never get full, in which case they lied as to the reason to pay a fee 6+ months early.

If you want to risk it and not reserve, that's your choice. I think it's hard to make the case that a statement like "best to reserve early to avoid disappointment" is a sharp practice.

[sociopath]

Some people.

You wanted them to hold a place so you paid 50 quid and they did.

Now you don't want the place and want the 50 quid back.

That's not how life works.

They now have to find someone else to fill that place, that may involve additional advertising, more admin, and things for the staff to do. You got off easy.

[Blown2CV]

sociopath said:

Some people.

You wanted them to hold a place so you paid 50 quid and they did.

Now you don't want the place and want the 50 quid back.

That's not how life works.

They now have to find someone else to fill that place, that may involve additional advertising, more admin, and things for the staff to do. You got off easy.

oh do fk off. We gave them a st ton of notice to cancel a place we never had in the first place, and that they would fill 50 times over anyway if their patter was true about WHY the £50 needed to be paid in the first place. If we confirmed the place and THEN pulled out I could totally understand not returning it, but there is no 50 quid's worth of admin involved in this beforehand. It is a post-it note at best. Calling it a fee rather than a deposit doesn't legitimise unfair charging and terms.

[Nemophilist]

Doesn’t really help the situation but if it makes you feel any better some friends had to put £1000 down to hold a space for their child starting in December and when their house fell through they lost that.
It could be worse

[sociopath]

Blown2CV said:

sociopath said:

Some people.

You wanted them to hold a place so you paid 50 quid and they did.

Now you don't want the place and want the 50 quid back.

That's not how life works.

They now have to find someone else to fill that place, that may involve additional advertising, more admin, and things for the staff to do. You got off easy.

oh do fk off. We gave them a st ton of notice to cancel a place we never had in the first place, and that they would fill 50 times over anyway if their patter was true about WHY the £50 needed to be paid in the first place. If we confirmed the place and THEN pulled out I could totally understand not returning it, but there is no 50 quid's worth of admin involved in this beforehand. It is a post-it note at best. Calling it a fee rather than a deposit doesn't legitimise unfair charging and terms.

You're arguing in circles, you know the 50 quid was to hold the place, now you don't want it why should they give it back?

What would you have done if they'd charged you a grand to reserve the place? Because whatever you say you were reserving the place, to be confirmed at a later date.

If you think it's unfair charging and terms, I have to wonder how you manage with life in general.

[Blown2CV]

sociopath said:

Blown2CV said:

sociopath said:

Some people.

You wanted them to hold a place so you paid 50 quid and they did.

Now you don't want the place and want the 50 quid back.

That's not how life works.

They now have to find someone else to fill that place, that may involve additional advertising, more admin, and things for the staff to do. You got off easy.

oh do fk off. We gave them a st ton of notice to cancel a place we never had in the first place, and that they would fill 50 times over anyway if their patter was true about WHY the £50 needed to be paid in the first place. If we confirmed the place and THEN pulled out I could totally understand not returning it, but there is no 50 quid's worth of admin involved in this beforehand. It is a post-it note at best. Calling it a fee rather than a deposit doesn't legitimise unfair charging and terms.

You're arguing in circles, you know the 50 quid was to hold the place, now you don't want it why should they give it back?

What would you have done if they'd charged you a grand to reserve the place? Because whatever you say you were reserving the place, to be confirmed at a later date.

If you think it's unfair charging and terms, I have to wonder how you manage with life in general.

there was no place... honestly it was very unclear as to what it was... however it was made clear that if we didn't pay it, there likely would be no place. They should give it back because they are in no way negatively impacted. They can fill the class, and they didn't do any admin. It's fairly fking obvious that if they HAD called it a deposit to reserve the place, they'd be opening themselves up to be obligated to return if if we didn't need the place - so it was not called that; it was called an 'admin fee'. So you're arguing a bullst point - if it WAS a reservation, then they SHOULD return it.