SIPP that allows Crypto Trading

[NoComment]

Afternoon All,

Wondering if anyone can help me here. I have a pension pot that I'd like to move into a SIPP in order to trade crypto and hopefully see some returns long term.

I appreciate that's is a volatile market and I could lose everything but have the following questions.

1. Is this possible
2. If possible can I trade across all crypto or am I limited to the main ones (BTC, ETH, ADA)
3. How quick is it make the trades (currently have a modest investment circa £8k within one of the mainstream providers and can trade whenever I like very quickly)

If anyone can shed any light on this I'd appreciate it.

Many Thanks

[rustyuk]

I've only ever seen a tracker of BitCoin - not to say there aren't other options.

[LeoSayer]

From reading the below - the FCA banned this and not just for pensions.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/policy-stateme...

[NoComment]

LeoSayer said:

From reading the below - the FCA banned this and not just for pensions.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/policy-stateme...

Thanks for that, although not the answer I was hoping for.

[bitchstewie]

Never will quite understand how it's fine to stick your life savings into an AIM miner that's a definite hundred bagger "any day now" but Crypto simply cannot be sold to a retail investor.

Seems perverse.

[LeoSayer]

bhstewie said:

Never will quite understand how it's fine to stick your life savings into an AIM miner that's a definite hundred bagger "any day now" but Crypto simply cannot be sold to a retail investor.

Seems perverse.

There are always edge cases.

Crypto is a separate asset class to shares so easy to classify.

I can't imagine how the FCA would decide which stocks are not OK for a retail investor, beyond something like "not traded on a recognised exchange".

[bitchstewie]

LeoSayer said:

There are always edge cases.

Crypto is a separate asset class to shares so easy to classify.

I can't imagine how the FCA would decide which stocks are not OK for a retail investor, beyond something like "not traded on a recognised exchange".

Oh sure but I could still sell down all my investments tomorrow and stick the lot in a single stock and nobody would bat an eyelid or challenge me.

But I can't put 1% in a Bitcoin ETF.

Like you say there will always be edge cases but it doesn't seem very joined up.

[Rocket.]

I was in a similar position last year and sadly it can't be done. I ended up buying Argo blockchain on AIM, Riot blockchain and Microstratergy shares, I basically doubled my SIPP with these shares in 2 months earlier this year but since sold out. If you think Bitcoin will go again it could be a good time to buy back in.

[Condi]

The answer is very obviously regulation and oversight. Bitcoin etc is still the wild west.

[cavey76]

Regulation will take time to catch up as was ever thus. Microstrategy shares are a good option mind.

[Simpo Two]

It would be nice to have a well-informed clever fund manager to act as a buffer between dumb Joe Punter and the maelstrom of Crypto, but they seem unwilling to do it... can't imagine why...

[98elise]

bhstewie said:

Never will quite understand how it's fine to stick your life savings into an AIM miner that's a definite hundred bagger "any day now" but Crypto simply cannot be sold to a retail investor.

Seems perverse.

You can stick your life savings into anything you want, just not within an ISA/SIPP.

Is it any more perverse than not being able to hold residential rental property in a pension, but commercial is ok?

[sideways sid]

Rocket. said:

I was in a similar position last year and sadly it can't be done. I ended up buying Argo blockchain on AIM, Riot blockchain and Microstratergy shares, I basically doubled my SIPP with these shares in 2 months earlier this year but since sold out. If you think Bitcoin will go again it could be a good time to buy back in.

Owning shares in companies that own/mine crypto seems like a way to gain indirect exposure to crypto whilst removing some of the risks of owning crypto directly (hacking etc).

Taking the discussion on a stage, some of those companies have liquid options markets, which opens more opportunities for exposure to crypto price and/or volatility via derivative contracts. These can be traded within a SIPP.

[Condi]

sideways sid said:

Owning shares in companies that own/mine crypto seems like a way to gain indirect exposure to crypto whilst removing some of the risks of owning crypto directly (hacking etc).

Taking the discussion on a stage, some of those companies have liquid options markets, which opens more opportunities for exposure to crypto price and/or volatility via derivative contracts. These can be traded within a SIPP.

What a great idea. Lets trade leverage options contracts, probably naked, with the money you intend to use to live off for 30 years.

There is a long long list of companies which have gone bust trading options, why on earth you'd want that exposure on such a volatile market with your pension I have no idea.

A fool and his money...

[bitchstewie]

98elise said:

You can stick your life savings into anything you want, just not within an ISA/SIPP.

Is it any more perverse than not being able to hold residential rental property in a pension, but commercial is ok?

Probably not I just don't have that particular problem so didn't know it even existed

[NickCQ]

98elise said:

Is it any more perverse than not being able to hold residential rental property in a pension, but commercial is ok?

I've always assumed the ban on residential property is because (i) everyone would be trying to get their primary home into their pension to buy it out of pre-tax income and (ii) gov't doesn't want yet more systemic risk from the housing market by which a crash wipes out people's pensions as well.

[sideways sid]

Condi said:

What a great idea. Lets trade leverage options contracts, probably naked, with the money you intend to use to live off for 30 years.

There is a long long list of companies which have gone bust trading options, why on earth you'd want that exposure on such a volatile market with your pension I have no idea.

A fool and his money...

FWiW, I completely agree with your sentiment, but note that I wasn't recommending the OP to engage in any particular trade, I was answering his question about gaining exposure to crypto within his SIPP and building on an earlier reply.

Also, as I'm sure you know, whilst they can be used speculatively and unhedged per WSB et al, which without reasonable knowledge of the instruments and structures quickly lead to a fool and his money being inextricably separated etc etc. options are also used to manage risk, and could be usefully applied to reduce downside risk on a long-only position. DYOR etc.

[Condi]

sideways sid said:

FWiW, I completely agree with your sentiment, but note that I wasn't recommending the OP to engage in any particular trade, I was answering his question about gaining exposure to crypto within his SIPP and building on an earlier reply.

Also, as I'm sure you know, whilst they can be used speculatively and unhedged per WSB et al, which without reasonable knowledge of the instruments and structures quickly lead to a fool and his money being inextricably separated etc etc. options are also used to manage risk, and could be usefully applied to reduce downside risk on a long-only position. DYOR etc.

Oh yes, options have their uses in a trading environment where you are trying to reduce risk, but within an investment portfolio I dont think they add much, other than a whole world of potential pain.

Many successful traders have explained to their risk teams why the position is fine and the options exposure is very manageable, just before it blows up in their face.

[98elise]

NickCQ said:

98elise said:

Is it any more perverse than not being able to hold residential rental property in a pension, but commercial is ok?

I've always assumed the ban on residential property is because (i) everyone would be trying to get their primary home into their pension to buy it out of pre-tax income and (ii) gov't doesn't want yet more systemic risk from the housing market by which a crash wipes out people's pensions as well.

There could be a simple rule to say it must not be your primary home.

I suspect it's more to do with the number of people that would buy BTL as it's a simple investment to understand and gets a better return than cash.

[LeoSayer]

The government / regulators have no reason to consider changing their stance on crypto or residential property in pensions.

In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the regulator tried to ban trading in pensions altogether.