Hargreaves Lansdown - 'Wealth Shortlist' Funds
Discussion
Hi chaps,
Started looking at investing in funds. I notice on the HL site there is the 'Wealth Shortlist' of funds where they state:
My colleague at work pretty much only selects from these funds and states he gets good returns.
Are these worth focusing on or should I be looking at other avenues?
Is there a thread in this section specifically discussing different funds?
TIA.
Started looking at investing in funds. I notice on the HL site there is the 'Wealth Shortlist' of funds where they state:
HL said:
The Wealth Shortlist is designed to help investors build well-balanced and diversified portfolios. We put funds under the microscope to make sure the list only contains the funds that our in-depth analysis indicates have the greatest performance potential.
https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/help-choosing-funds/wea...My colleague at work pretty much only selects from these funds and states he gets good returns.
Are these worth focusing on or should I be looking at other avenues?
Is there a thread in this section specifically discussing different funds?
TIA.
ignore all investment advice from anyone, anywhere unless its free.
tens or hundreds of thousands of folk working in "the financial service industry" are trying to make a living out of you: providing useless investment advice or persuading you to be a gambler rather than an investor e.g. a financial advisor, fund manager, investment platform. every single person or organisation has there own agenda of helping to part you from your money.
without a crystal ball they're no more likely than you are to guess which companies' shares will go up or down. meanwhile they're all creaming off money from you one way or another: pump and dump schemes, high platform fees, inability to escape the platform you are invested in, fund fees for underperforming funds etc etc and none of these parasites and parasitic organisations are willing to provide or assist you with investment advice on a pay per results basis - ask yourself WHY NOT???
Free Investment Advice!
ignore OEIC funds altogether. imagine you're considering investing in fund A which wants to charge you 'only' 1% per year fees. if you, or indeed all the other fund managers, believed that fund A was going to produce great results they'd just get a big loan and invest in fund A. In fact the bank wouldn't even lend them the money because the bank would also be investing into fund A.
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
whatever you are contemplating investing in ask yourself
"do I know more than the rest of the market which has lots of clever people who are using banks of computers, algorithms and maybe political connections and possibly inside information"?
if the answer to that is "yes I do!" then ignore the fact that the current market price reflects the entire sum of all the knowledge of all those other people and invest immediately.
if the answer is "no" and you continue to invest in a fund/ company then you're gambling.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it. ignore everything you subsequently hear about investments or 'bull markets', 'bear markets' , or anything else either in the papers, Bloomberg, other on-line places etc as they are all, one way or another, trying subtly or not-so-subtly to persuade you to let them have some of your money.
tens or hundreds of thousands of folk working in "the financial service industry" are trying to make a living out of you: providing useless investment advice or persuading you to be a gambler rather than an investor e.g. a financial advisor, fund manager, investment platform. every single person or organisation has there own agenda of helping to part you from your money.
without a crystal ball they're no more likely than you are to guess which companies' shares will go up or down. meanwhile they're all creaming off money from you one way or another: pump and dump schemes, high platform fees, inability to escape the platform you are invested in, fund fees for underperforming funds etc etc and none of these parasites and parasitic organisations are willing to provide or assist you with investment advice on a pay per results basis - ask yourself WHY NOT???
Free Investment Advice!
ignore OEIC funds altogether. imagine you're considering investing in fund A which wants to charge you 'only' 1% per year fees. if you, or indeed all the other fund managers, believed that fund A was going to produce great results they'd just get a big loan and invest in fund A. In fact the bank wouldn't even lend them the money because the bank would also be investing into fund A.
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
whatever you are contemplating investing in ask yourself
"do I know more than the rest of the market which has lots of clever people who are using banks of computers, algorithms and maybe political connections and possibly inside information"?
if the answer to that is "yes I do!" then ignore the fact that the current market price reflects the entire sum of all the knowledge of all those other people and invest immediately.
if the answer is "no" and you continue to invest in a fund/ company then you're gambling.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it. ignore everything you subsequently hear about investments or 'bull markets', 'bear markets' , or anything else either in the papers, Bloomberg, other on-line places etc as they are all, one way or another, trying subtly or not-so-subtly to persuade you to let them have some of your money.
Tye Green said:
ignore all investment advice from anyone, anywhere unless its free.
tens or hundreds of thousands of folk working in "the financial service industry" are trying to make a living out of you: providing useless investment advice or persuading you to be a gambler rather than an investor e.g. a financial advisor, fund manager, investment platform. every single person or organisation has there own agenda of helping to part you from your money.
without a crystal ball they're no more likely than you are to guess which companies' shares will go up or down. meanwhile they're all creaming off money from you one way or another: pump and dump schemes, high platform fees, inability to escape the platform you are invested in, fund fees for underperforming funds etc etc and none of these parasites and parasitic organisations are willing to provide or assist you with investment advice on a pay per results basis - ask yourself WHY NOT???
Free Investment Advice!
ignore OEIC funds altogether. imagine you're considering investing in fund A which wants to charge you 'only' 1% per year fees. if you, or indeed all the other fund managers, believed that fund A was going to produce great results they'd just get a big loan and invest in fund A. In fact the bank wouldn't even lend them the money because the bank would also be investing into fund A.
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
whatever you are contemplating investing in ask yourself
"do I know more than the rest of the market which has lots of clever people who are using banks of computers, algorithms and maybe political connections and possibly inside information"?
if the answer to that is "yes I do!" then ignore the fact that the current market price reflects the entire sum of all the knowledge of all those other people and invest immediately.
if the answer is "no" and you continue to invest in a fund/ company then you're gambling.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it. ignore everything you subsequently hear about investments or 'bull markets', 'bear markets' , or anything else either in the papers, Bloomberg, other on-line places etc as they are all, one way or another, trying subtly or not-so-subtly to persuade you to let them have some of your money.
This is of course complete nonsensetens or hundreds of thousands of folk working in "the financial service industry" are trying to make a living out of you: providing useless investment advice or persuading you to be a gambler rather than an investor e.g. a financial advisor, fund manager, investment platform. every single person or organisation has there own agenda of helping to part you from your money.
without a crystal ball they're no more likely than you are to guess which companies' shares will go up or down. meanwhile they're all creaming off money from you one way or another: pump and dump schemes, high platform fees, inability to escape the platform you are invested in, fund fees for underperforming funds etc etc and none of these parasites and parasitic organisations are willing to provide or assist you with investment advice on a pay per results basis - ask yourself WHY NOT???
Free Investment Advice!
ignore OEIC funds altogether. imagine you're considering investing in fund A which wants to charge you 'only' 1% per year fees. if you, or indeed all the other fund managers, believed that fund A was going to produce great results they'd just get a big loan and invest in fund A. In fact the bank wouldn't even lend them the money because the bank would also be investing into fund A.
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
whatever you are contemplating investing in ask yourself
"do I know more than the rest of the market which has lots of clever people who are using banks of computers, algorithms and maybe political connections and possibly inside information"?
if the answer to that is "yes I do!" then ignore the fact that the current market price reflects the entire sum of all the knowledge of all those other people and invest immediately.
if the answer is "no" and you continue to invest in a fund/ company then you're gambling.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it. ignore everything you subsequently hear about investments or 'bull markets', 'bear markets' , or anything else either in the papers, Bloomberg, other on-line places etc as they are all, one way or another, trying subtly or not-so-subtly to persuade you to let them have some of your money.
g3org3y said:
https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/help-choosing-funds/wea...
My colleague at work pretty much only selects from these funds and states he gets good returns.
Are these worth focusing on or should I be looking at other avenues?
Is there a thread in this section specifically discussing different funds?
TIA.
The wealth shortlist is a bit of a running joke in investing circles. Don't forget these guys were still plugging Woodford long after he went rogue. Their wealth shortlist includes some absolute dog funds - I'd be interested in whether your colleague has benchmarked his returns versus either and index tracker or a comparable peer group (sector average) of funds. My colleague at work pretty much only selects from these funds and states he gets good returns.
Are these worth focusing on or should I be looking at other avenues?
Is there a thread in this section specifically discussing different funds?
TIA.
Just take a look at their global funds on their wealth shortlist - appalling selection of active options aside from one, in all but Rathbone you'd have been better off sticking money in an index tracker.
If you REALLY want to go down the rabbit hole of selecting funds you certainly shouldn't be relying on a platform who are incentivised by managers to promote theirs.....
You should also be aware that over 90% of active funds fail to beat their benchmark over a 10 year period so you need to ask yourself what you know that means you are going to pick the top 10%. Beating a benchmark in the past definitively doesnt mean a fund will continue to do so in future.
btdk5 said:
Tye Green said:
ignore all investment advice from anyone, anywhere unless its free.
tens or hundreds of thousands of folk working in "the financial service industry" are trying to make a living out of you: providing useless investment advice or persuading you to be a gambler rather than an investor e.g. a financial advisor, fund manager, investment platform. every single person or organisation has there own agenda of helping to part you from your money.
without a crystal ball they're no more likely than you are to guess which companies' shares will go up or down. meanwhile they're all creaming off money from you one way or another: pump and dump schemes, high platform fees, inability to escape the platform you are invested in, fund fees for underperforming funds etc etc and none of these parasites and parasitic organisations are willing to provide or assist you with investment advice on a pay per results basis - ask yourself WHY NOT???
Free Investment Advice!
ignore OEIC funds altogether. imagine you're considering investing in fund A which wants to charge you 'only' 1% per year fees. if you, or indeed all the other fund managers, believed that fund A was going to produce great results they'd just get a big loan and invest in fund A. In fact the bank wouldn't even lend them the money because the bank would also be investing into fund A.
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
whatever you are contemplating investing in ask yourself
"do I know more than the rest of the market which has lots of clever people who are using banks of computers, algorithms and maybe political connections and possibly inside information"?
if the answer to that is "yes I do!" then ignore the fact that the current market price reflects the entire sum of all the knowledge of all those other people and invest immediately.
if the answer is "no" and you continue to invest in a fund/ company then you're gambling.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it. ignore everything you subsequently hear about investments or 'bull markets', 'bear markets' , or anything else either in the papers, Bloomberg, other on-line places etc as they are all, one way or another, trying subtly or not-so-subtly to persuade you to let them have some of your money.
This is of course complete nonsensetens or hundreds of thousands of folk working in "the financial service industry" are trying to make a living out of you: providing useless investment advice or persuading you to be a gambler rather than an investor e.g. a financial advisor, fund manager, investment platform. every single person or organisation has there own agenda of helping to part you from your money.
without a crystal ball they're no more likely than you are to guess which companies' shares will go up or down. meanwhile they're all creaming off money from you one way or another: pump and dump schemes, high platform fees, inability to escape the platform you are invested in, fund fees for underperforming funds etc etc and none of these parasites and parasitic organisations are willing to provide or assist you with investment advice on a pay per results basis - ask yourself WHY NOT???
Free Investment Advice!
ignore OEIC funds altogether. imagine you're considering investing in fund A which wants to charge you 'only' 1% per year fees. if you, or indeed all the other fund managers, believed that fund A was going to produce great results they'd just get a big loan and invest in fund A. In fact the bank wouldn't even lend them the money because the bank would also be investing into fund A.
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
whatever you are contemplating investing in ask yourself
"do I know more than the rest of the market which has lots of clever people who are using banks of computers, algorithms and maybe political connections and possibly inside information"?
if the answer to that is "yes I do!" then ignore the fact that the current market price reflects the entire sum of all the knowledge of all those other people and invest immediately.
if the answer is "no" and you continue to invest in a fund/ company then you're gambling.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it. ignore everything you subsequently hear about investments or 'bull markets', 'bear markets' , or anything else either in the papers, Bloomberg, other on-line places etc as they are all, one way or another, trying subtly or not-so-subtly to persuade you to let them have some of your money.
Statistically you've got a circa 10% chance of picking a long term winning fund. Beating the index is very hard to do.
Of course it's easy to pull up a list of funds that have beaten the index in the past, but if investing was that simple we'd all be millionaires!
And the poster is absolutely correct that HL charge 0.45% as a platform fee for funds, something like II is a far better option once above a certain pot size.
It's worth thinking how many fund of funds there are - run by an investment manager with some analysts, Oxford educated, chartered accountants, CFA's and picking funds is their day job. And still they fail to beat the index.
I am historically an active investor (handful of global funds) who is seeing the light about passive investing and will be transitioning this year.
chomer75 said:
This may help you decide for whose benefit the HL "Wealth List" is really for...
I see. 
Tye Green said:
ignore all investment advice from anyone, anywhere unless its free.
tens or hundreds of thousands of folk working in "the financial service industry" are trying to make a living out of you: providing useless investment advice or persuading you to be a gambler rather than an investor e.g. a financial advisor, fund manager, investment platform. every single person or organisation has there own agenda of helping to part you from your money.
without a crystal ball they're no more likely than you are to guess which companies' shares will go up or down. meanwhile they're all creaming off money from you one way or another: pump and dump schemes, high platform fees, inability to escape the platform you are invested in, fund fees for underperforming funds etc etc and none of these parasites and parasitic organisations are willing to provide or assist you with investment advice on a pay per results basis - ask yourself WHY NOT???
Free Investment Advice!
ignore OEIC funds altogether. imagine you're considering investing in fund A which wants to charge you 'only' 1% per year fees. if you, or indeed all the other fund managers, believed that fund A was going to produce great results they'd just get a big loan and invest in fund A. In fact the bank wouldn't even lend them the money because the bank would also be investing into fund A.
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
whatever you are contemplating investing in ask yourself
"do I know more than the rest of the market which has lots of clever people who are using banks of computers, algorithms and maybe political connections and possibly inside information"?
if the answer to that is "yes I do!" then ignore the fact that the current market price reflects the entire sum of all the knowledge of all those other people and invest immediately.
if the answer is "no" and you continue to invest in a fund/ company then you're gambling.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it. ignore everything you subsequently hear about investments or 'bull markets', 'bear markets' , or anything else either in the papers, Bloomberg, other on-line places etc as they are all, one way or another, trying subtly or not-so-subtly to persuade you to let them have some of your money.
Thanks for the (free!) advice. Will look into ETFs.tens or hundreds of thousands of folk working in "the financial service industry" are trying to make a living out of you: providing useless investment advice or persuading you to be a gambler rather than an investor e.g. a financial advisor, fund manager, investment platform. every single person or organisation has there own agenda of helping to part you from your money.
without a crystal ball they're no more likely than you are to guess which companies' shares will go up or down. meanwhile they're all creaming off money from you one way or another: pump and dump schemes, high platform fees, inability to escape the platform you are invested in, fund fees for underperforming funds etc etc and none of these parasites and parasitic organisations are willing to provide or assist you with investment advice on a pay per results basis - ask yourself WHY NOT???
Free Investment Advice!
ignore OEIC funds altogether. imagine you're considering investing in fund A which wants to charge you 'only' 1% per year fees. if you, or indeed all the other fund managers, believed that fund A was going to produce great results they'd just get a big loan and invest in fund A. In fact the bank wouldn't even lend them the money because the bank would also be investing into fund A.
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
whatever you are contemplating investing in ask yourself
"do I know more than the rest of the market which has lots of clever people who are using banks of computers, algorithms and maybe political connections and possibly inside information"?
if the answer to that is "yes I do!" then ignore the fact that the current market price reflects the entire sum of all the knowledge of all those other people and invest immediately.
if the answer is "no" and you continue to invest in a fund/ company then you're gambling.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it. ignore everything you subsequently hear about investments or 'bull markets', 'bear markets' , or anything else either in the papers, Bloomberg, other on-line places etc as they are all, one way or another, trying subtly or not-so-subtly to persuade you to let them have some of your money.
si
800 said:
800 said: The wealth shortlist is a bit of a running joke in investing circles. Don't forget these guys were still plugging Woodford long after he went rogue. Their wealth shortlist includes some absolute dog funds - I'd be interested in whether your colleague has benchmarked his returns versus either and index tracker or a comparable peer group (sector average) of funds.
Just take a look at their global funds on their wealth shortlist - appalling selection of active options aside from one, in all but Rathbone you'd have been better off sticking money in an index tracker.
If you REALLY want to go down the rabbit hole of selecting funds you certainly shouldn't be relying on a platform who are incentivised by managers to promote theirs.....
You should also be aware that over 90% of active funds fail to beat their benchmark over a 10 year period so you need to ask yourself what you know that means you are going to pick the top 10%. Beating a benchmark in the past definitively doesnt mean a fund will continue to do so in future.
I don't know the exact financial circumstances of my colleague but he seemed very pleased with how things are going. He's got fingers in various pies including recently BTLs (via LTD company) gold etc. Just take a look at their global funds on their wealth shortlist - appalling selection of active options aside from one, in all but Rathbone you'd have been better off sticking money in an index tracker.
If you REALLY want to go down the rabbit hole of selecting funds you certainly shouldn't be relying on a platform who are incentivised by managers to promote theirs.....
You should also be aware that over 90% of active funds fail to beat their benchmark over a 10 year period so you need to ask yourself what you know that means you are going to pick the top 10%. Beating a benchmark in the past definitively doesnt mean a fund will continue to do so in future.
I was wary of this 'wealth shortlist' given it clearly seemed too 'easy' and as you quite rightly say, what's the underlying incentive?
I will look into Index Trackers. Any in particular considered the best ones (in addition to HSBC World or Vanguard mentioned above)?
si800 said:
800 said: FWIW I dont think it is......
Statistically you've got a circa 10% chance of picking a long term winning fund. Beating the index is very hard to do.
Of course it's easy to pull up a list of funds that have beaten the index in the past, but if investing was that simple we'd all be millionaires!
And the poster is absolutely correct that HL charge 0.45% as a platform fee for funds, something like II is a far better option once above a certain pot size.
It's worth thinking how many fund of funds there are - run by an investment manager with some analysts, Oxford educated, chartered accountants, CFA's and picking funds is their day job. And still they fail to beat the index.
I am historically an active investor (handful of global funds) who is seeing the light about passive investing and will be transitioning this year.
Yes, does seem a bit 'dark art' about it all. Statistically you've got a circa 10% chance of picking a long term winning fund. Beating the index is very hard to do.
Of course it's easy to pull up a list of funds that have beaten the index in the past, but if investing was that simple we'd all be millionaires!
And the poster is absolutely correct that HL charge 0.45% as a platform fee for funds, something like II is a far better option once above a certain pot size.
It's worth thinking how many fund of funds there are - run by an investment manager with some analysts, Oxford educated, chartered accountants, CFA's and picking funds is their day job. And still they fail to beat the index.
I am historically an active investor (handful of global funds) who is seeing the light about passive investing and will be transitioning this year.
I'm totally ignorant in all of this. I've been typically putting money in our joint offset mortgage account but maxed that out so looking at other avenues.
g3org3y said:
I don't know the exact financial circumstances of my colleague but he seemed very pleased with how things are going. He's got fingers in various pies including recently BTLs (via LTD company) gold etc.
I was wary of this 'wealth shortlist' given it clearly seemed too 'easy' and as you quite rightly say, what's the underlying incentive?
I will look into Index Trackers. Any in particular considered the best ones (in addition to HSBC World or Vanguard mentioned above)?
The thing is someone could have bought a fund that's gone up 9% a year for the last 5 years and they log in and see a nice green gain and it looks great!I was wary of this 'wealth shortlist' given it clearly seemed too 'easy' and as you quite rightly say, what's the underlying incentive?
I will look into Index Trackers. Any in particular considered the best ones (in addition to HSBC World or Vanguard mentioned above)?
But the index is up 15% a year for the last 6 years, so they're actually missing out on 6% a year comparatively. A quick look at 2 of the global options is me showing me returns of 37% over 3 years, the index is up 54%. So one one hand anyone who bought is indeed up 37% which looks nice, but really they are down 17% versus where they should be.
si800 said:
800 said:g3org3y said:
I don't know the exact financial circumstances of my colleague but he seemed very pleased with how things are going. He's got fingers in various pies including recently BTLs (via LTD company) gold etc.
I was wary of this 'wealth shortlist' given it clearly seemed too 'easy' and as you quite rightly say, what's the underlying incentive?
I will look into Index Trackers. Any in particular considered the best ones (in addition to HSBC World or Vanguard mentioned above)?
The thing is someone could have bought a fund that's gone up 9% a year for the last 5 years and they log in and see a nice green gain and it looks great!I was wary of this 'wealth shortlist' given it clearly seemed too 'easy' and as you quite rightly say, what's the underlying incentive?
I will look into Index Trackers. Any in particular considered the best ones (in addition to HSBC World or Vanguard mentioned above)?
But the index is up 15% a year for the last 6 years, so they're actually missing out on 6% a year comparatively. A quick look at 2 of the global options is me showing me returns of 37% over 3 years, the index is up 54%. So one one hand anyone who bought is indeed up 37% which looks nice, but really they are down 17% versus where they should be.
ETFs are the same as Index Trackers?
And from what I've now read, ETFs come in different types, eg stocks, bonds or commodities etc
Where would you recommend the best place to learn about this kind of stuff? Any suggested YouTube channels or Podcasts?
Tye Green said:
never invest in OEIC on HL as they will take 0.45% of the first £250k for platform fees.
solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it.
I agree that you should avoid OEIC on HL, but at various other places the platform fees are the same for OEIC and ETFs and when I last looked (a few years ago), the fund charges for a global index tracker OEIC were lower than for a similar ETF.solution:
find a platform you're happy with and invest only in ETFs - typically a world tracker such as HSBC World / Vanguard etc and then forget about it.
trevalvole said:
I agree that you should avoid OEIC on HL, but at various other places the platform fees are the same for OEIC and ETFs and when I last looked (a few years ago), the fund charges for a global index tracker OEIC were lower than for a similar ETF.
Interactive Investor is a flat fee regardless of portfolio size, so once at a certain level of AUM you're literally hundreds/thousands of pounds a year better off.If anyone thinks 0.45% is an irrelevant amount please do play around with this compound interest calculator to see it isn't;
https://monevator.com/compound-interest-calculator...
Re Index Trackers, I notice HL also have a 'Wealth Shortlist': https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/index-tracker-funds/wea...
It does include HSBC FTSE 250 Index Class S as well as Vanguard Global Bond Index and Vanguard Global Corporate Bond Index. Are these the ones you guys were talking about?
(Also a lot of Legal & General - many various types, plus iShares under BlackRock who I understand are a big player?)
It does include HSBC FTSE 250 Index Class S as well as Vanguard Global Bond Index and Vanguard Global Corporate Bond Index. Are these the ones you guys were talking about?
(Also a lot of Legal & General - many various types, plus iShares under BlackRock who I understand are a big player?)
g3org3y said:
I see what you're saying, that makes sense, thank you.
ETFs are the same as Index Trackers?
And from what I've now read, ETFs come in different types, eg stocks, bonds or commodities etc
Where would you recommend the best place to learn about this kind of stuff? Any suggested YouTube channels or Podcasts?
A tracker is an investment product that tracks the index (you can choose one of many indexes, from commodities, to Japanese small caps. Let's say for ease you go for a global tracker which tracks the MSCI World or MSCI ACWI). Said tracker can come in different vehicles, either a fund or an ETF.ETFs are the same as Index Trackers?
And from what I've now read, ETFs come in different types, eg stocks, bonds or commodities etc
Where would you recommend the best place to learn about this kind of stuff? Any suggested YouTube channels or Podcasts?
So on HL their fees are capped if you hold IT's, ETF's or single shares and uncapped if you hold a fund (OEIC).
As such to get around HL's extortionate fee (Other platforms are available!) using an ETF works out cheaper than an OEIC as whatever OEIC you look at you need to add 0.45% to the cost just to hold it on HL.
I don't get the general obsession with HL , their service is pretty s
t and they are taking thousands off people when their competitors are way cheaper. But appreciate it's the go to name in this space!As for learning, check out Investing Demystified by Lars Kroijer, an ex hedge fund manager who makes compelling case for passive investing;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9HH7_x-icc&t=...
Also try the Monevator blog which is very good.
Tye Green said:
btdk5 said:
This is of course complete nonsense
Oh... so please clarify.. what is your investment strategy which will beat the market and sidestep fund fees, platform fees etc ? Enlighten me!At the same time, to say that every retail investor making their own decisions is nothing more than a clueless gambler isn't quite correct. The whole active management profession and everyone that's either never done it or tried but failed will tell you otherwise, but it's absolutely possible to earn above average returns as an individual with time, effort and emotional discipline.
si800 said:
800 said:g3org3y said:
I see what you're saying, that makes sense, thank you.
ETFs are the same as Index Trackers?
And from what I've now read, ETFs come in different types, eg stocks, bonds or commodities etc
Where would you recommend the best place to learn about this kind of stuff? Any suggested YouTube channels or Podcasts?
A tracker is an investment product that tracks the index (you can choose one of many indexes, from commodities, to Japanese small caps. Let's say for ease you go for a global tracker which tracks the MSCI World or MSCI ACWI). Said tracker can come in different vehicles, either a fund or an ETF.ETFs are the same as Index Trackers?
And from what I've now read, ETFs come in different types, eg stocks, bonds or commodities etc
Where would you recommend the best place to learn about this kind of stuff? Any suggested YouTube channels or Podcasts?
So on HL their fees are capped if you hold IT's, ETF's or single shares and uncapped if you hold a fund (OEIC).
As such to get around HL's extortionate fee (Other platforms are available!) using an ETF works out cheaper than an OEIC as whatever OEIC you look at you need to add 0.45% to the cost just to hold it on HL.
I don't get the general obsession with HL , their service is pretty s
t and they are taking thousands off people when their competitors are way cheaper. But appreciate it's the go to name in this space!As for learning, check out Investing Demystified by Lars Kroijer, an ex hedge fund manager who makes compelling case for passive investing;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9HH7_x-icc&t=...
Also try the Monevator blog which is very good.
Thoughts:
Returns over the past decade have been so good generally you'd have to be trying to fail not to be happy with them.
If you say equities very notionally and roughly return a very bumpy average of ~8% a year. if inflation ends up at 3%, that gives you a real return of 5%. It pays to look closely at fees at every stage as they eat in to that 5% return
Investment markets are generally considered to be at least somewhat efficient. That means there is little scope out there for genius investing decisions, hence the argument for trackers.
The more companies in a collective investment, the less volatile it is (as the movement of each individual company is a smaller fraction of the fund value) so look for world trackers, not region specific ones unless you want to much around holding multiple region specific ones.
For goodness sake, put as much as possible in an ISA wrapper so you don't have to deal with a tax form. Consider if putting it in a pension with no access until pension age but potential tax benefits is a good trade off.
Returns over the past decade have been so good generally you'd have to be trying to fail not to be happy with them.
If you say equities very notionally and roughly return a very bumpy average of ~8% a year. if inflation ends up at 3%, that gives you a real return of 5%. It pays to look closely at fees at every stage as they eat in to that 5% return
Investment markets are generally considered to be at least somewhat efficient. That means there is little scope out there for genius investing decisions, hence the argument for trackers.
The more companies in a collective investment, the less volatile it is (as the movement of each individual company is a smaller fraction of the fund value) so look for world trackers, not region specific ones unless you want to much around holding multiple region specific ones.
For goodness sake, put as much as possible in an ISA wrapper so you don't have to deal with a tax form. Consider if putting it in a pension with no access until pension age but potential tax benefits is a good trade off.
xeny said:
Thoughts:
Returns over the past decade have been so good generally you'd have to be trying to fail not to be happy with them.
If you say equities very notionally and roughly return a very bumpy average of ~8% a year. if inflation ends up at 3%, that gives you a real return of 5%. It pays to look closely at fees at every stage as they eat in to that 5% return
Investment markets are generally considered to be at least somewhat efficient. That means there is little scope out there for genius investing decisions, hence the argument for trackers.
The more companies in a collective investment, the less volatile it is (as the movement of each individual company is a smaller fraction of the fund value) so look for world trackers, not region specific ones unless you want to much around holding multiple region specific ones.
For goodness sake, put as much as possible in an ISA wrapper so you don't have to deal with a tax form. Consider if putting it in a pension with no access until pension age but potential tax benefits is a good trade off.
Pension wise, am pretty good (NHS). The major issue I have with it is exceeding the 'Annual Allowance' and then being stung with additional tax burden. I think this year I had to pay an additional £3.5k!Returns over the past decade have been so good generally you'd have to be trying to fail not to be happy with them.
If you say equities very notionally and roughly return a very bumpy average of ~8% a year. if inflation ends up at 3%, that gives you a real return of 5%. It pays to look closely at fees at every stage as they eat in to that 5% return
Investment markets are generally considered to be at least somewhat efficient. That means there is little scope out there for genius investing decisions, hence the argument for trackers.
The more companies in a collective investment, the less volatile it is (as the movement of each individual company is a smaller fraction of the fund value) so look for world trackers, not region specific ones unless you want to much around holding multiple region specific ones.
For goodness sake, put as much as possible in an ISA wrapper so you don't have to deal with a tax form. Consider if putting it in a pension with no access until pension age but potential tax benefits is a good trade off.
A few of my colleagues are therefore doing 6 months in/out of the pension scheme to avoid falling foul of this.
xeny said:
Thoughts:
Returns over the past decade have been so good generally you'd have to be trying to fail not to be happy with them.
If you say equities very notionally and roughly return a very bumpy average of ~8% a year. if inflation ends up at 3%, that gives you a real return of 5%. It pays to look closely at fees at every stage as they eat in to that 5% return
Investment markets are generally considered to be at least somewhat efficient. That means there is little scope out there for genius investing decisions, hence the argument for trackers.
The more companies in a collective investment, the less volatile it is (as the movement of each individual company is a smaller fraction of the fund value) so look for world trackers, not region specific ones unless you want to much around holding multiple region specific ones.
For goodness sake, put as much as possible in an ISA wrapper so you don't have to deal with a tax form. Consider if putting it in a pension with no access until pension age but potential tax benefits is a good trade off.
Great post!Returns over the past decade have been so good generally you'd have to be trying to fail not to be happy with them.
If you say equities very notionally and roughly return a very bumpy average of ~8% a year. if inflation ends up at 3%, that gives you a real return of 5%. It pays to look closely at fees at every stage as they eat in to that 5% return
Investment markets are generally considered to be at least somewhat efficient. That means there is little scope out there for genius investing decisions, hence the argument for trackers.
The more companies in a collective investment, the less volatile it is (as the movement of each individual company is a smaller fraction of the fund value) so look for world trackers, not region specific ones unless you want to much around holding multiple region specific ones.
For goodness sake, put as much as possible in an ISA wrapper so you don't have to deal with a tax form. Consider if putting it in a pension with no access until pension age but potential tax benefits is a good trade off.
NowWatchThisDrive said:
Tye Green said:
btdk5 said:
This is of course complete nonsense
Oh... so please clarify.. what is your investment strategy which will beat the market and sidestep fund fees, platform fees etc ? Enlighten me!
"welcome to our wealth management services sir. everything's going to be rosy now that you've put your capital in our expert hands. oh and please remember Past Performance Is No Guarantee Of Future Results so just because our previous 10 year performance was much worse than the index doesn't mean that the next 10 years will be so. BTW - unfortunately, we are unable to accept fee payment based upon the results that we achieve for you, even though we're sure that they will be great. We're off for a champagne & caviar lunch so may not be available for the rest of the afternoon and next week its the cruise for the best salesmen, which our office won this year "
'active management' = 'actively take your money' - its one big f
king (un-funny) joke - find one single fund or manager than can (risk adjusted) claim to have beaten the index on a long term basis. the favorite retail fund was Fundsmith and before that Lindsell Train Global - both struggling now.
I'd say that any retail investor that has beaten the market has just been lucky (often because they forgot to include risk adjustment in their figures) and invite (as I have done many times elsewhere) anyone who disputes this to explain how they did it and back it up with figures. as yet, no-one has been able to offer a plausible & credible explanation.
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff