Yep, the UK is farked thread
Discussion
Phooey said:
Who knows, but don't forget their offer 
Easternlight said:
There's a whole generation that have no idea what high inflation and high interest rates are like .
They've got a shock coming to them!
my generation really (im 35), just started work post 2008 so haven't had a GFC, paying low interest on massive mortgages. lovely jubbly They've got a shock coming to them!
z4RRSchris said:
Easternlight said:
There's a whole generation that have no idea what high inflation and high interest rates are like .
They've got a shock coming to them!
my generation really (im 35), just started work post 2008 so haven't had a GFC, paying low interest on massive mortgages. lovely jubbly They've got a shock coming to them!
I'm hoping for some sort of reset.
I want a bigger house but don't want to pay the silly inflated prices around at the moment.
There's so many people with enormous mortgages and loads of other unsecured debt living virtually month to month despite interest rates being at historic lows.
It won't be allowed to happen but 5-7% base rate should thin the heard.
I want a bigger house but don't want to pay the silly inflated prices around at the moment.
There's so many people with enormous mortgages and loads of other unsecured debt living virtually month to month despite interest rates being at historic lows.
It won't be allowed to happen but 5-7% base rate should thin the heard.
Easternlight said:
There's a whole generation that have no idea what high inflation and high interest rates are like .
They've got a shock coming to them!
And a whole generation (or two) sneering down their noses waiting for it to happen having benefitted from huge house price growth themselves whilst criticising those who’ve had to take on large mortgages. They've got a shock coming to them!
zj2016 said:
Easternlight said:
There's a whole generation that have no idea what high inflation and high interest rates are like .
They've got a shock coming to them!
And a whole generation (or two) sneering down their noses waiting for it to happen having benefitted from huge house price growth themselves whilst criticising those who’ve had to take on large mortgages. They've got a shock coming to them!
I, and many of my generation, experienced a period where the absolute max mortgage was 2 1/2 times one person's salary and the interest rates were around 15%. I know how tough things can be and, indeed, may get possibly. It's not our fault that others have forced up house prices to their current levels that may be unsustainable. Actually, the financial freedom that the banks and mortgage lenders have been permitted by successive governments is most likely the cause of where we are now.
R.
The Leaper said:
zj2016 said:
Easternlight said:
There's a whole generation that have no idea what high inflation and high interest rates are like .
They've got a shock coming to them!
And a whole generation (or two) sneering down their noses waiting for it to happen having benefitted from huge house price growth themselves whilst criticising those who’ve had to take on large mortgages. They've got a shock coming to them!
I, and many of my generation, experienced a period where the absolute max mortgage was 2 1/2 times one person's salary and the interest rates were around 15%. I know how tough things can be and, indeed, may get possibly. It's not our fault that others have forced up house prices to their current levels that may be unsustainable. Actually, the financial freedom that the banks and mortgage lenders have been permitted by successive governments is most likely the cause of where we are now.
R.[/quote
Actually it's unfettered immigration that has caused housing to become a "luxury". I went on the MET line into London a few months ago and Harrow and Wembley have been utterly destroyed, along with the High Rise Flats, almost every semi's garden had a building in the back garden to house more
The Leaper said:
zj2016 said:
Easternlight said:
There's a whole generation that have no idea what high inflation and high interest rates are like .
They've got a shock coming to them!
And a whole generation (or two) sneering down their noses waiting for it to happen having benefitted from huge house price growth themselves whilst criticising those who’ve had to take on large mortgages. They've got a shock coming to them!
I, and many of my generation, experienced a period where the absolute max mortgage was 2 1/2 times one person's salary and the interest rates were around 15%. I know how tough things can be and, indeed, may get possibly. It's not our fault that others have forced up house prices to their current levels that may be unsustainable. Actually, the financial freedom that the banks and mortgage lenders have been permitted by successive governments is most likely the cause of where we are now.
R.
I’m sure it must have been hard with 15% interest rates however capital values weren’t what they are now so the two situations aren’t comparable IMO.
The Leaper said:
I object to that generalisation.
I, and many of my generation, experienced a period where the absolute max mortgage was 2 1/2 times one person's salary and the interest rates were around 15%. I know how tough things can be and, indeed, may get possibly. It's not our fault that others have forced up house prices to their current levels that may be unsustainable. Actually, the financial freedom that the banks and mortgage lenders have been permitted by successive governments is most likely the cause of where we are now.
R.
Those factors were at the same time as the income to house price ratio being much lower, however. I, and many of my generation, experienced a period where the absolute max mortgage was 2 1/2 times one person's salary and the interest rates were around 15%. I know how tough things can be and, indeed, may get possibly. It's not our fault that others have forced up house prices to their current levels that may be unsustainable. Actually, the financial freedom that the banks and mortgage lenders have been permitted by successive governments is most likely the cause of where we are now.
R.
One of a series of free Economist podcasts on Britain's Growth Crisis https://soundcloud.com/theeconomist/money-talks-br...
Blames many of the usual demons - Brexit, immigration (lack of), broken infrastructure investment, minimal growth capital investment market (eg why are Canadian public pension funds , not UK funds, investing in our growth opportunities?), ageing demographics, arts not technical education, etc etc.
I don't see what's going to turn this around. GBP/USD reached 2.0 in 2006-07; now just 1.2.
Increasingly I wonder if UK is too shackled by red-tape policies that make doing business so hard. I've never understood the accepted definitions of 'productivity'. Eg suppose it takes 4 or 5 people to dig a hole in a road compared with 3 or 4 previously (due to new legislative requirements) are we more productive or less productive? The cost of the extra bod(s) is passed onto the customer, some is absorbed in lower margins at the contractor; ultimately we're just shuffling money around into more pockets perhaps so it's broadly neutral. There's so many examples of what I call 'policemen' in the broadest sense (compliance, most auditors, H&S, planning/protection departments, lawyers, appeal bodies, regulators, many 'managers' possibly) act as a drag on what I see as demonstrable growth. Then there's the growth in what I see as 'net sum zero' activities - eg advertising agencies, news channels, streaming services.... all competing for shares of a largely finite cake.
And in the next few years we're going to face significant 'supply destruction' where viable energy producers, ICE vehicles etc are 'turned off' long before the end of their useful life. Does this/should this count as Productivity? It's possible to argue it's similar in concept to the destruction wreaked by the war in Ukraine where infrastructure is taken out only to be rebuilt in happier times. Almost 'running to keep still'. Perhaps this is where the 'Build back better' mantra originated?
Yes I know all nations face these issues - maybe the UK little better/worse than our competitors? I need to find a good, convincing economics primer as I find the notion of Productivity hard to get my head round!
Blames many of the usual demons - Brexit, immigration (lack of), broken infrastructure investment, minimal growth capital investment market (eg why are Canadian public pension funds , not UK funds, investing in our growth opportunities?), ageing demographics, arts not technical education, etc etc.
I don't see what's going to turn this around. GBP/USD reached 2.0 in 2006-07; now just 1.2.
Increasingly I wonder if UK is too shackled by red-tape policies that make doing business so hard. I've never understood the accepted definitions of 'productivity'. Eg suppose it takes 4 or 5 people to dig a hole in a road compared with 3 or 4 previously (due to new legislative requirements) are we more productive or less productive? The cost of the extra bod(s) is passed onto the customer, some is absorbed in lower margins at the contractor; ultimately we're just shuffling money around into more pockets perhaps so it's broadly neutral. There's so many examples of what I call 'policemen' in the broadest sense (compliance, most auditors, H&S, planning/protection departments, lawyers, appeal bodies, regulators, many 'managers' possibly) act as a drag on what I see as demonstrable growth. Then there's the growth in what I see as 'net sum zero' activities - eg advertising agencies, news channels, streaming services.... all competing for shares of a largely finite cake.
And in the next few years we're going to face significant 'supply destruction' where viable energy producers, ICE vehicles etc are 'turned off' long before the end of their useful life. Does this/should this count as Productivity? It's possible to argue it's similar in concept to the destruction wreaked by the war in Ukraine where infrastructure is taken out only to be rebuilt in happier times. Almost 'running to keep still'. Perhaps this is where the 'Build back better' mantra originated?
Yes I know all nations face these issues - maybe the UK little better/worse than our competitors? I need to find a good, convincing economics primer as I find the notion of Productivity hard to get my head round!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
A lot of youngsters have 'never had it so good' because they are inheriting the houses bought by their parents and grandparents in the post war era.I think that's a very much underestimated difference. In the early 80s, when I started work, the 'normal fist time buyer' was somebody with a good job and a few savings. Now a much bigger %age of first time buyers are putting down many years' wages in inherited wealth.
A few other points, when I was at college, the £ and the $ were nearly equal. It's not new.
The big change affecting different generations of UK residents is not the local housing market, it's the world economic situation.
It used to be, if you were born in the UK, you had a real leg up, you were in the top few % of the world for earnings opportunities.
Now everyone has to compete with a lot more people. Other parts of the world have a lot of better educated, hard working people.
People in the UK need to accept that they don't necessarily deserve more than the bloke from Poland, Korea, Nigeria etc.
The reason gas has got expensive is that lots of people in the Far East are buying it, they can afford to pay current prices.
Recent interest rates are not natural. Deposit interest should at least roughly match inflation. Borrowing costs should be greater than inflation.
Things go in cycles. If the pound crashes far enough, the UK will become a cheap place to get work done again?
But do we have the skills and infrastructure to do anything useful that the rest of the world wants?
z4RRSchris said:
Easternlight said:
There's a whole generation that have no idea what high inflation and high interest rates are like .
They've got a shock coming to them!
my generation really (im 35), just started work post 2008 so haven't had a GFC, paying low interest on massive mortgages. lovely jubbly They've got a shock coming to them!
There is going to be some belt-tightening and those who suffer most will be those who live from pay packet to pay packet. However maybe a culture change would be beneficial?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not sure what belittling “youngsters” has to do with this thread, but in 1975 the median annual wage was approx £2,500 - https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/written...Whereas it’s approx £30k now. To use your figures, try borrowing £24k (2000/2500 x £30k) and putting down £12k (1000/2500 x £30k) and see how much house that buys you.
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