Rage against the fuel

[caduceus]

I'm sure some of you will remember back in 2009 'Killing in the name of' got to number one at Christmas off of the back of a campaign on FB to stop the XFactor song getting to the top slot. That was a clear demonstration that social media and a bit of effort changed the direction of something for the better.

Can the general public not do the same with fuel companies who are making billions in profits while we all feel the squeeze of rising living costs, i.e - boycott one company forecourt for one week? There are plenty of other suppliers to go to. Could we not hold one company (chosen randomly) to ransom to put pressure on them and hopefully then the government to lower prices to a reasonable level?
Why has this not been tried yet? Is it illegal for some reason, to choose one company? What are the ramifications of such an endeavor?
Just a thought and I'm interested in the debate.

Cad

[bogie]

The government is making more money than the fuel companies out of it ...why dont we boycott them ?

[Crafty_]

Been talked about before, lots of reasons why it wont work, here's a few..

You'll never convince enough people to actively take part in a boycott against company A this week, company B next week.

A week boycott is not going to get a company running to the government to demand lower prices

Fuel retailers don't actually make all that much money, its the extraction and refinement where the money is.

[egor110]

F++k you I won't fill up at bp .

[caduceus]

Crafty_ said:

Been talked about before, lots of reasons why it wont work, here's a few..

Crafty_ said:

You'll never convince enough people to actively take part in a boycott against company A this week, company B next week.

What was the cost of a litre when it was discussed?

Crafty_ said:

A week boycott is not going to get a company running to the government to demand lower prices

Ok. How about a month?

Crafty_ said:

Fuel retailers don't actually make all that much money, its the extraction and refinement where the money is.

Then why are Shell and BP recording profits of billions?

[caduceus]

bogie said:

The government is making more money than the fuel companies out of it ...why dont we boycott them ?

Because I don't think an online petition will do anything. How do you propose we boycott them? Not a criticism, I agree, but how?
I assume leaning on companies will force them to lean on the government to act. I don't know...hence the discussion.

[Dr Jekyll]

caduceus said:

Crafty_ said:

Been talked about before, lots of reasons why it wont work, here's a few..

Crafty_ said:

You'll never convince enough people to actively take part in a boycott against company A this week, company B next week.

What was the cost of a litre when it was discussed?

Crafty_ said:

A week boycott is not going to get a company running to the government to demand lower prices

Ok. How about a month?

Crafty_ said:

Fuel retailers don't actually make all that much money, its the extraction and refinement where the money is.

Then why are Shell and BP recording profits of billions?

Because they are huge worldwide companies worth well over £100 billion. So both profits and losses are going to be in the billions. That's why BP made a loss of $20 billion in the first quarter this year.


About 3% of a heating bill ends up as profit.

Edited by Dr Jekyll on Tuesday 9th August 19:33

[Fusion777]

I don't think boycotting a retailer's forecourts for a month would have anywhere near as much impact as you'd think. Remember big oil are multinational, with a presence in every continent.

Plus, we're great at moaning, not so good at actually taking strong action. Most of us just want to live our lives without drama.

[caduceus]

Jesus...this wasn't the response I was expecting. Christ I know a lot of it is tax. I know they are huge companies. But what are we going to do? Nothing?...and carry on taking it in the ass so they know they can carry on humping us for more money because they know it won't be met with resistance?

Sorry, I'm just so fed up of fuel suppliers making billions while we have to wonder where we're going to get the money for a newer ULEZ compliant car, or the prospect of quadrupled bills this winter.

[caduceus]

Dr Jekyll said:

That's why BP made a loss of $20 billion in the first quarter this year.

From Google: 'bp's profits have surged to £6.9 billion ($8.45 billion) for Q2 2022, its highest in 14 years, amidst the continued energy crisis'.2 Aug 2022

[Fusion777]

caduceus said:

Jesus...this wasn't the response I was expecting. Christ I know a lot of it is tax. I know they are huge companies. But what are we going to do? Nothing?...and carry on taking it in the ass so they know they can carry on humping us for more money because they know it won't be met with resistance?

Sorry, I'm just so fed up of fuel suppliers making billions while we have to wonder where we're going to get the money for a newer ULEZ compliant car, or the prospect of quadrupled bills this winter.

It's just the dynamics of power. It may not be fair, we may not like it, but it's the state of affairs. If it was that easy to bring giant corporations to heel, we'd do it.

How long do you think people have been complaining about fuel and energy prices for? I'm trying to think of a time when oil companies have reduced forecourt prices substantially as a result of public pressure. Even governments struggle to effect change, so what chance has the average joe got?

If you feel so strongly about it, why not start something?

[Simpo Two]

Fusion777 said:

If you feel so strongly about it, why not start something?

Or if you can't beat 'em, join 'em and buy some shares.

Of more concern IMHO is the 'energy market' which is forcing domestic bills to c.£4K by year end because Russia is playing silly buggers with gas, and yet we only get 3% of our gas from Russia. You'd think that solar power would be independent of gas, but no, it all goes through 'the market'.

[anonymous-user]

Simpo Two said:

Or if you can't beat 'em, join 'em and buy some shares.

Of more concern IMHO is the 'energy market' which is forcing domestic bills to c.£4K by year end because Russia is playing silly buggers with gas, and yet we only get 3% of our gas from Russia. You'd think that solar power would be independent of gas, but no, it all goes through 'the market'.

90% of my EDF energy is sourced from nuclear / renewable .
Shame I don’t pay French energy prices !
‘“The nuclear backed and renewable electricity that we buy for Residential, SME, Zero Carbon for Business (formerly Blue for Business) or Renewable tariffs and products is supplied into the National Grid.”

[tighnamara]

caduceus said:

Jesus...this wasn't the response I was expecting. Christ I know a lot of it is tax. I know they are huge companies. But what are we going to do? Nothing?...and carry on taking it in the ass so they know they can carry on humping us for more money because they know it won't be met with resistance?

Sorry, I'm just so fed up of fuel suppliers making billions while we have to wonder where we're going to get the money for a newer ULEZ compliant car, or the prospect of quadrupled bills this winter.

Out if interest what was your view when these companies were making little profit and many people were laid off in the industry with the government doing nothing to help. (Has to work both ways)

I am amazed at the naive attitude that it is all the O & G companies problem, bad government management of energy has also contributed to the current issue.

Continuing to tax O & G companies (way above other industries already) will possibly push them to invest elsewhere globally and only make the current problem a lot worse.

The Goverment have seen a windfall of billions with the high energy prices, they are “profiteering” on large scale with no risk.

The companies invest billions each year, it is a business, these taxes and continual penalising is easy said but you can’t keep taxing and penalising companies based on their profit.

There are many other industries making high profits, I know the frustration but continual taxing in UK could and most likely would have a drastic effect to the UK economy in the long run.

Note added, I don’t think you understand that the large profits are made by the O & G companies selling the product after extraction to be used and sold on as energy / fuel.

Edited by tighnamara on Wednesday 10th August 07:38

Edited by tighnamara on Wednesday 10th August 07:39

[Simpo Two]

Simpo Two said:

You'd think that solar power would be independent of gas, but no, it all goes through 'the market'.

Well I'm on the right lines, with Martin Lewis on R4 today saying that gas and renewables need to be de-linked. Otherwise it's like strapping yourself to the Titanic.

[tighnamara]

Simpo Two said:

Simpo Two said:

You'd think that solar power would be independent of gas, but no, it all goes through 'the market'.

Well I'm on the right lines, with Martin Lewis on R4 today saying that gas and renewables need to be de-linked. Otherwise it's like strapping yourself to the Titanic.

How do you de-link them and who benefits from the renewable side and who pays the high prices ?

The main issue is that while renewables sounds an easy solution, the investment is massive and wouldn't be sustainable as "stand alone", it is far to early to be looking as a stand alone product (de-linked)

The main O & G companies are investing heavily in renewables, its going to be a slow growing process and all should remember that O & G companies have the "money" to invest in renewables.

[dmahon]

It doesn’t sit right with me to blame the energy companies. They operate in a market, and if people are willing to pay $100 a barrel for oil and high prices on refinement then what should the suppliers do? Sell at a lower price or below their own wholesale supply costs? That is not going to work if the industry remains privatised.

They also work in a market that continually requires billions of £ in investment and can have periods of massive losses. BP lost £20 billion in Q1 this year by pulling of Russia. Periods of large profits are the flip side of their scale.

It’s the people that design, regulate and tax the markets who are to blame if the market is not working for everyone.

Why aren’t the UK more energy independent and have higher capacity?

Why do we not have a more competitive market?

Why do we not use our own resources which can be extracted and transported at lower cost?

Why is the tax so high on an essential?

Why are green levies necessary at this time?

Why did we waste all of the money on Covid meaning we can’t afford more help as a country?

Why are we sanctioning Russia and pushing millions of people further in the UK into poverty? (Controversial one but I wonder if there would be so much support for Ukraine come January.)

Answer primarily begins with the letter G.

Edited by dmahon on Wednesday 10th August 09:54

[Vasco]

caduceus said:

Jesus...this wasn't the response I was expecting. Christ I know a lot of it is tax. I know they are huge companies. But what are we going to do? Nothing?...and carry on taking it in the ass so they know they can carry on humping us for more money because they know it won't be met with resistance?

Sorry, I'm just so fed up of fuel suppliers making billions while we have to wonder where we're going to get the money for a newer ULEZ compliant car, or the prospect of quadrupled bills this winter.

I'm sure that many of us are fed up. The trouble is that none of your suggestions would make any impact.
Given how the big fuel companies make a lot of their money (plus the tax paid at the pump inflates final costs) I can't see how any action by the public can achieve anything.

[Castrol for a knave]

tighnamara said:

Out if interest what was your view when these companies were making little profit and many people were laid off in the industry with the government doing nothing to help. (Has to work both ways)

I am amazed at the naive attitude that it is all the O & G companies problem, bad government management of energy has also contributed to the current issue.

Continuing to tax O & G companies (way above other industries already) will possibly push them to invest elsewhere globally and only make the current problem a lot worse.

The Goverment have seen a windfall of billions with the high energy prices, they are “profiteering” on large scale with no risk.

The companies invest billions each year, it is a business, these taxes and continual penalising is easy said but you can’t keep taxing and penalising companies based on their profit.

There are many other industries making high profits, I know the frustration but continual taxing in UK could and most likely would have a drastic effect to the UK economy in the long run.

Note added, I don’t think you understand that the large profits are made by the O & G companies selling the product after extraction to be used and sold on as energy / fuel.

Edited by tighnamara on Wednesday 10th August 07:38

Edited by tighnamara on Wednesday 10th August 07:39

Exactly, where was the concern when oil hit $50 a barrel and the likes of Shell, Schlumberger etc were laying off hundreds?

Much as it pains me to say, as a lefty, the companies operate in a market, and those markets rise and fall. allied to the huge exploration and extraction costs, which require a 20 yr payback, the years they made thumping great losses and the number of peoples' pensions that are wrapped up in energy companies, and it is a less than clear cut picture.

Personally, the fact we sold our water and power companies off, several to overseas owners, leaving us unable to control our domestic supply is more of a concern.

[Da Original Whyayedee]

It's Governments that need to change, that's where we should be standing up and demanding Politics and the structure of government needs to change in this country. The mess we are in is because we have 4-5 year cycles of Government and all effort goes into short term thinking to get your vote for next time around and its totally absurd.

Anything on the scale of energy needs a 20 year strategy in place to sort it out out, although it should have started 15 years ago, same goes for the NHS, Food Securities, Transportation, they're all fked as they're used as political footballs for vote winning and none of the issues actually got properly thought out and addressed.

So don't burn down BP, burn down the Government!