High Legal Fees
Discussion
I'll keep this brief and in summary;
I live in a leasehold property, currently paying the mortgage but I'm subject to all kinds of additional costs (estate maintenance fees.etc).
Every few years the maintenance / management contract for the estate is sold on.
All residents of the estate are responsible for any charges incurred (example; if there are maintenance fees for maintenance works carried out on flats, then cost is spread between all residents on the estate, including those that dont even have access to the flats).
A few months ago I received a fairly intimidating letter from a solicitors firm stating they were collecting on behalf of the management company regarding payments I had missed. (TLDR; I didn't receive any invoice via post and emails ended up in my spam folder, so I didn't see them).
I had missed two payments to the management firm, totaling; £116.
The management firm had applied a legal fee of £200.74 - I assume for initiating the solicitors.
The solicitors have then charged an additional fee of £438 + £2.94 interest + £3.60 land registry fee, taking the demand to £761.28.
Is it just me or is the combined £645 legal fees over a £116 debt a little excessive?
I have been in touch with the solicitors explaining that no post was received and the emails were unfortunately missed - but the reply I got back was along the lines of "thats not our problem, make the payment".
As you can imagine, this is a bit of a shocker - I am fortunate that I am able to cover the cost, but it pains me to do so - it seems that they have no moral obligation and seems they are assuming I am an open cheque book.
I live lean and saved hard for the things I have. My salary is below average and I'm already feeling the pinch given the current economic climate, it will take me a good few months (around 5) to recoup.
Just needed to get that off my chest, its a shame that I am feeling punished for something that is almost out of my control - maybe I should start reading through my spam emails.
I live in a leasehold property, currently paying the mortgage but I'm subject to all kinds of additional costs (estate maintenance fees.etc).
Every few years the maintenance / management contract for the estate is sold on.
All residents of the estate are responsible for any charges incurred (example; if there are maintenance fees for maintenance works carried out on flats, then cost is spread between all residents on the estate, including those that dont even have access to the flats).
A few months ago I received a fairly intimidating letter from a solicitors firm stating they were collecting on behalf of the management company regarding payments I had missed. (TLDR; I didn't receive any invoice via post and emails ended up in my spam folder, so I didn't see them).
I had missed two payments to the management firm, totaling; £116.
The management firm had applied a legal fee of £200.74 - I assume for initiating the solicitors.
The solicitors have then charged an additional fee of £438 + £2.94 interest + £3.60 land registry fee, taking the demand to £761.28.
Is it just me or is the combined £645 legal fees over a £116 debt a little excessive?
I have been in touch with the solicitors explaining that no post was received and the emails were unfortunately missed - but the reply I got back was along the lines of "thats not our problem, make the payment".
As you can imagine, this is a bit of a shocker - I am fortunate that I am able to cover the cost, but it pains me to do so - it seems that they have no moral obligation and seems they are assuming I am an open cheque book.
I live lean and saved hard for the things I have. My salary is below average and I'm already feeling the pinch given the current economic climate, it will take me a good few months (around 5) to recoup.
Just needed to get that off my chest, its a shame that I am feeling punished for something that is almost out of my control - maybe I should start reading through my spam emails.
Make the payment...of 116 pounds.
Running up excessive "fees", when a simple phone call or letter would have sorted it out is an abuse of process.
Is there anything in a contract that allows such charges? Quite possibly an unfair contract term.
With any luck the alleged debt will end up with debt collectors, who have no powers.
Not a lawyer, so this is just my opinion!
You have a contract with the management company, pay them the outstanding amount of £116 (to the management company). You probably have something on your contract about late payment/“reasonable” collection charges in which case pay the £200 fee (to the management company).
The management company have agreed to pay a solicitor £438 to send you a letter, seems poor value to me, the management company owe the solicitors that money, not you.
I would reply to the solicitors (don’t just ignore them), acknowledge letter, state that you will pay management company the 2 amounts above).
Jim
You have a contract with the management company, pay them the outstanding amount of £116 (to the management company). You probably have something on your contract about late payment/“reasonable” collection charges in which case pay the £200 fee (to the management company).
The management company have agreed to pay a solicitor £438 to send you a letter, seems poor value to me, the management company owe the solicitors that money, not you.
I would reply to the solicitors (don’t just ignore them), acknowledge letter, state that you will pay management company the 2 amounts above).
Jim
caziques said:
Make the payment...of 116 pounds.
Running up excessive "fees", when a simple phone call or letter would have sorted it out is an abuse of process
Yes x2.Running up excessive "fees", when a simple phone call or letter would have sorted it out is an abuse of process
Happy Jim said:
You have a contract with the management company, pay them the outstanding amount of £116 (to the management company). You probably have something on your contract about late payment/“reasonable” collection charges in which case pay the £200 fee (to the management company).
The management company have agreed to pay a solicitor £438 to send you a letter, seems poor value to me, the management company owe the solicitors that money, not you.
I would reply to the solicitors (don’t just ignore them), acknowledge letter, state that you will pay management company the 2 amounts above).
I would keep it to the £116. The rest is sabre-rattling.The management company have agreed to pay a solicitor £438 to send you a letter, seems poor value to me, the management company owe the solicitors that money, not you.
I would reply to the solicitors (don’t just ignore them), acknowledge letter, state that you will pay management company the 2 amounts above).
Going from mere e-mails to full legal is not acceptable in my book. Legal stuff should be accompanied by letters, preferably signed for. Otherwise it's just laziness and greed.
From now on keep everything in writing and be seen to be reasonable and polite.
I would contact The Law Society/legal ombudsman/financial ombudsman to get their opinions on whether charging £700 for a £100 debt is reasonable. There must be "gentlemens agreements" over this if not actual legislation, a bit like when they stopped clampers from charging extortionate fees to release cars. Based on the outcome I would contact the management co and pay them the £116 and tell them you are disputing the rest. The usual protocol would be a letter before action (LBA) possibly from a solicitor which is the final threat before instigating legal proceedings in court, but those initial LBA's usually only cost up to £30, not £500+.
Also check that the threatening letter is actually a solicitor, a lot of dodgy debt collectors give themselves legal sounding names when they are not and it is usually those firms that charge more than a solicitor would to send a LBA.
Also check that the threatening letter is actually a solicitor, a lot of dodgy debt collectors give themselves legal sounding names when they are not and it is usually those firms that charge more than a solicitor would to send a LBA.
Does the management company not have a duty to mitigate/ keep the costs down?
If not, then I can add £500 every time I send a letter to someone?
Surely a judge (if it ever went that far), would ask the company - " what attempts did you make to contact the client before additional costs were incurred?" How would they reply? We sent an email...
If not, then I can add £500 every time I send a letter to someone?
Surely a judge (if it ever went that far), would ask the company - " what attempts did you make to contact the client before additional costs were incurred?" How would they reply? We sent an email...
MuddyK said:
Does the management company not have a duty to mitigate/ keep the costs down?
If not, then I can add £500 every time I send a letter to someone?
Surely a judge (if it ever went that far), would ask the company - " what attempts did you make to contact the client before additional costs were incurred?" How would they reply? We sent an email...
Perhaps they don’t have his postal address If not, then I can add £500 every time I send a letter to someone?
Surely a judge (if it ever went that far), would ask the company - " what attempts did you make to contact the client before additional costs were incurred?" How would they reply? We sent an email...
OP. I do have some expertise in this area.
Leasehold Reform Act 2002 is your friend. Paraphrasing, regardless of what your lease says you are entitled for a full explanation and justification of all charges relating to collection of monies under a lease. Further said charges MUST be reasonable.
The way to proceed is to pay the actual management fees of £116?? and also request details of the charges. You may want to reference the legislation. If the charges are excessive(and they appear to be) once the management company respond you can appeal to a tribunal who will rule on the matter. They can not continue any collection proceedings against you whilst you dispute the charges.Good luck
https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/commonho...
Leasehold Reform Act 2002 is your friend. Paraphrasing, regardless of what your lease says you are entitled for a full explanation and justification of all charges relating to collection of monies under a lease. Further said charges MUST be reasonable.
The way to proceed is to pay the actual management fees of £116?? and also request details of the charges. You may want to reference the legislation. If the charges are excessive(and they appear to be) once the management company respond you can appeal to a tribunal who will rule on the matter. They can not continue any collection proceedings against you whilst you dispute the charges.Good luck
https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/commonho...
Many thanks for all your advice.
As I thought, it sounds like the legal firm are taking the mick - I also thought that the management firm should also have a duty of care to ensure their customers are not being ripped off by something they have initiated.
As it happens, over the weekend I actually received an email invoice for the latest estate charges (they are invoiced bi-annually).
Included in this invoice was the outstanding balance brought forward - so I paid it.
Hoping this way I have just cut out the solicitors - if they ask then I will state that the management firm brought forward the balance and sent me an invoice - so I paid it.
As I thought, it sounds like the legal firm are taking the mick - I also thought that the management firm should also have a duty of care to ensure their customers are not being ripped off by something they have initiated.
As it happens, over the weekend I actually received an email invoice for the latest estate charges (they are invoiced bi-annually).
Included in this invoice was the outstanding balance brought forward - so I paid it.
Hoping this way I have just cut out the solicitors - if they ask then I will state that the management firm brought forward the balance and sent me an invoice - so I paid it.
I'll sit in the other side of the fence. Having lived on a private road, with a management company, I've seen first hand how difficult it can be to get people to pony up when they should. So it doesn't surprise me that they have a more formal process for escalation, and it clearly works as it got your attention immediately.
You missed emails from the management company requesting money, is it out of the realms of possibility that you also mislaid, threw away by accident, or simply ignored the letters they also sent and are now trying to get yourself out of it by pleading ignorance?
Have the management company done all that they could to notify you of the late payment? Well they sent you emails and letters, some of which you admit to ignoring. I guess it's difficult to argue the toss.
Good luck either way.
You missed emails from the management company requesting money, is it out of the realms of possibility that you also mislaid, threw away by accident, or simply ignored the letters they also sent and are now trying to get yourself out of it by pleading ignorance?
Have the management company done all that they could to notify you of the late payment? Well they sent you emails and letters, some of which you admit to ignoring. I guess it's difficult to argue the toss.
Good luck either way.
AlexGSi2000 said:
Many thanks for all your advice.
As I thought, it sounds like the legal firm are taking the mick - I also thought that the management firm should also have a duty of care to ensure their customers are not being ripped off by something they have initiated.
As it happens, over the weekend I actually received an email invoice for the latest estate charges (they are invoiced bi-annually).
Included in this invoice was the outstanding balance brought forward - so I paid it.
Hoping this way I have just cut out the solicitors - if they ask then I will state that the management firm brought forward the balance and sent me an invoice - so I paid it.
Just remember one important point. If you fail to raise the charges as under dispute then they could very well escalate. Do not ignore them. Challenge them and use the route suggested-dispute, site the legislation and use the tribunal.As I thought, it sounds like the legal firm are taking the mick - I also thought that the management firm should also have a duty of care to ensure their customers are not being ripped off by something they have initiated.
As it happens, over the weekend I actually received an email invoice for the latest estate charges (they are invoiced bi-annually).
Included in this invoice was the outstanding balance brought forward - so I paid it.
Hoping this way I have just cut out the solicitors - if they ask then I will state that the management firm brought forward the balance and sent me an invoice - so I paid it.
I would urge caution. They might just issue a County Court summons which you will then have to defend.
They will say the amount outstanding is irrelevant. i.e. Whether it's £1 or £1,000 the work involved in chasing for the money is exactly the same.
However, those fees look pretty stiff for getting a pretty ordinary legal ball rolling so it might be worth trying to get a reduction as discussed above.
They will say the amount outstanding is irrelevant. i.e. Whether it's £1 or £1,000 the work involved in chasing for the money is exactly the same.
However, those fees look pretty stiff for getting a pretty ordinary legal ball rolling so it might be worth trying to get a reduction as discussed above.
AlexGSi2000 said:
I live in a leasehold property, currently paying the mortgage ....
Check your Title at the Land Registry. It will only cost you £3 to get if you don't already have it on file from the time of your purchase. Normally papers/process can be formally "served" on the registered owner by post and at the address of the property shown on the register. Sometimes the Register will show that the owner has specified a different address for formal service. Broadly speaking they've probably got you bang to rights on the formalities of "service" but you should be able to challenge the additional fees if they are excessive.https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-r...
Don't use any of the other land registry search websites that come up on google! They probably obtain the information via the link above and then charge you an additional fee for getting it....
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