Save to the Grave - is it worth it?
Discussion
You could also call it compulsive saving or just being plain tight with money.
We have a lot of threads about how some people haven't got any financial awareness and squander their money and have no savings, but what about the opposite end of the spectrum - people who seem afraid to spend money.
A good example would be my grandparents on my Mothers side (gran actually passed away last year, but Grandad is still with us). I nor my sister can think of anyone as tight as them with money. In fact it's almost beyond comprehension.
To give an example: A few years ago the shed in my grandparents back yard was beginning to deteriorate. My Grandad asked me to look up some options for replacing it. I did so and came up with a local company who would supply and build the new shed and even lay down a base for it. The total cost would've been around £800 - £1000 give or take.
Later that week I phoned him up and said I was going to go round with a couple of the lads from work to take it down. He said don't bother, he would buy some plyboard from the local builders merchants and repair it. This may sound sensible if he was a hard up pensioner but he has a very healthy six figure sum saved up across multiple accounts. The shed never got repaired (it was beyond it anyhow) and most of the stuff in it is now in the conservatory.
I remember growing up and they had an old push button television - no remote control - that they didn't replace until it went totally kaput in 1999. Even then they only bought a budget television.
My Grandad sat in a chair bought in 2002 and ended up practically sat on the floor because the cushion had gone and he gaffer taped up the arms after they'd cracked and let all of the stuffing out. He eventually replaced it when my Mother had a go at him for sitting there like a pauper.
I kind of put their way with money down to a number of things:
They were brought up in a time when things were not as plentiful and what you did have had to last you.
Money was tight for them up until probably the 1980's.
They still think that £10 is worth what it was thirty or forty years ago.
The trouble is I feel that hoarding money led them to not enjoying their latter years. Why sit there in a knackered old chair when you have the money to buy a hundred chairs and give them away?
As I say it just baffles me, and even though I'm more a saver than a spender I still like to enjoy myself.
We have a lot of threads about how some people haven't got any financial awareness and squander their money and have no savings, but what about the opposite end of the spectrum - people who seem afraid to spend money.
A good example would be my grandparents on my Mothers side (gran actually passed away last year, but Grandad is still with us). I nor my sister can think of anyone as tight as them with money. In fact it's almost beyond comprehension.
To give an example: A few years ago the shed in my grandparents back yard was beginning to deteriorate. My Grandad asked me to look up some options for replacing it. I did so and came up with a local company who would supply and build the new shed and even lay down a base for it. The total cost would've been around £800 - £1000 give or take.
Later that week I phoned him up and said I was going to go round with a couple of the lads from work to take it down. He said don't bother, he would buy some plyboard from the local builders merchants and repair it. This may sound sensible if he was a hard up pensioner but he has a very healthy six figure sum saved up across multiple accounts. The shed never got repaired (it was beyond it anyhow) and most of the stuff in it is now in the conservatory.
I remember growing up and they had an old push button television - no remote control - that they didn't replace until it went totally kaput in 1999. Even then they only bought a budget television.
My Grandad sat in a chair bought in 2002 and ended up practically sat on the floor because the cushion had gone and he gaffer taped up the arms after they'd cracked and let all of the stuffing out. He eventually replaced it when my Mother had a go at him for sitting there like a pauper.
I kind of put their way with money down to a number of things:
They were brought up in a time when things were not as plentiful and what you did have had to last you.
Money was tight for them up until probably the 1980's.
They still think that £10 is worth what it was thirty or forty years ago.
The trouble is I feel that hoarding money led them to not enjoying their latter years. Why sit there in a knackered old chair when you have the money to buy a hundred chairs and give them away?
As I say it just baffles me, and even though I'm more a saver than a spender I still like to enjoy myself.
Some pensioners seem to revel in the misery of pauperism. There's been a few stories on PH over the years of elderly grandparents stating "I don't have that kind of money, I'll mend and make do", then they've croaked it and the beneficiaries find 300 grand of saved pension payments.
It's almost as absurd as the FIRE principle
It's almost as absurd as the FIRE principle
I recall hearing a story about one guy who was scrimping and saving so that he could retire and then odd about for the rest of his life going fishing and what not. I don't think he was that young but do remember that he was only eating meals like beans on toast to save, save, save.
The trouble is you could do that and then drop dead having not enjoyed yourself.
There surely must be a balance somewhere.
The trouble is you could do that and then drop dead having not enjoyed yourself.
There surely must be a balance somewhere.
Brett748 said:
A totally sensible attitude to money is very very rare. People are often one way or the other.
I try and be balanced but in 40 years god knows what I will be like. A bit of a Scrooge like my Grandad probably…
Do you think it's a generational thing (ie, the further back you were born the tighter you are) or is it an old persons thing regardless of when you were born? I try and be balanced but in 40 years god knows what I will be like. A bit of a Scrooge like my Grandad probably…
I'm not retired - I've got about a decade before the State pension kicks in. I don't have millions stashed away but want to be in a position to retire before I have to. The way my sums and greed level work, we can live very nicely with £1500 a month coming in. Right now, it looks like I could retire 5 years before I reach 67. I'll miss my salary, but over the past few years friends and acquaintances my age or less are increasingly dying off. I realise the importance of enjoying life, even if I won't be the richest old codger around.
Thin White Duke said:
I recall hearing a story about one guy who was scrimping and saving so that he could retire and then odd about for the rest of his life going fishing and what not. I don't think he was that young but do remember that he was only eating meals like beans on toast to save, save, save.
The trouble is you could do that and then drop dead having not enjoyed yourself.
There surely must be a balance somewhere.
I always think that people who live like that, loooooong term sacrifice over decades sometimes..... are they really going to just change their ways when the finish line passes? They’ll have been “institutionalised” to those habits.... hence the aforementioned dead pensioners with piles of cash The trouble is you could do that and then drop dead having not enjoyed yourself.
There surely must be a balance somewhere.
Brett748 said:
A totally sensible attitude to money is very very rare. People are often one way or the other.
I try and be balanced but in 40 years god knows what I will be like. A bit of a Scrooge like my Grandad probably…
This. Some people are naturally spenders and others are savers.I try and be balanced but in 40 years god knows what I will be like. A bit of a Scrooge like my Grandad probably…
I suspect savers aren't that great at making purchasing choices and take little pleasure in a life filled with luxuries so they're able to easily accumulate a huge stack of cash in the bank and enjoy the financial security that brings whilst spenders are probably much better at making those choices and so find it a lot easier to indulge themselves with a life filled with goodies and treats.
The third option of course for those more advanced in years like us is not to spend or save but simply give money away if you don't need it yourself.
Earlier this year we gave each of our kids a lump sum from an inheritance but so far haven't spent a penny of what's left ourselves. Seeing the difference gifting that cash has made to their lives bought us way more pleasure than either spending or saving that amount on or for ourselves could ever have done.
A possible factor is that the older generation lived their early lives during a period when no one gave you anything and whatever you wanted you had to work hard and save for, this has been ingrained in them.
Some of the younger generation seem to have been brought up in an era when people appear to get anything they want. You either borrow it or get given it by over generous parents, or the benefits system, or by being an influencer, or a drug dealer, or a 'celebrity'.
There, that should set the cat amongst the pigeons! Discuss........
Some of the younger generation seem to have been brought up in an era when people appear to get anything they want. You either borrow it or get given it by over generous parents, or the benefits system, or by being an influencer, or a drug dealer, or a 'celebrity'.
There, that should set the cat amongst the pigeons! Discuss........
Thin White Duke said:
but what about the opposite end of the spectrum - people who seem afraid to spend money.
I've "caught" this, really. I've spent a lot of time saving up money so as to not be concerned about being out of work, and while I'm not anywhere near the level of "stash" that some on here are, I'm struggling to get to a point where I'm comfortable in spending anything other than the bare minimum. I imagine a lot of it is inherited from my parents, who were born just before WW2 and of course had far less "stuff", and had to make it last, repair it when it went wrong, and so on, and passed that mindset on to me.As there's no way to know how long my savings have to last for, it's overwhelmingly tempting to keep as much as possible. I'd like to think that I wouldn't do ridiculous things just to keep costs down, that I'd know when is a good time to actually have to dig down and spend some money, but I'm not entirely sure. I guess it's quite fortunate (or boring) that I haven't been in that position. If it all goes while I still need it, I'm not sure what I'd do, and it's that uncertainty that makes me want to keep hold.
Krhuangbin said:
I always think that people who live like that, loooooong term sacrifice over decades sometimes..... are they really going to just change their ways when the finish line passes? They’ll have been “institutionalised” to those habits.... hence the aforementioned dead pensioners with piles of cash
Yes, that's a lot of it. I was in a work situation around the age of 21/22 where the business I worked for had some trouble while I had a credit card balance (a few hundred, not the kind of balance people of that age probably have now) and it properly scared me, and I vowed to pay it down and then pay it off every month. That led to an obsession with trying to put some money away so that if anything happened to my work, not only would I not have a card debt, but I'd also have a "bit put away". I imagine that's linked to my "imposter syndrome" that made me feel that at some point, someone might notice I'm just stumbling my way through stuff, however successfully I might have been doing that. Then one time, before buying a car, I foolishly made a spreadsheet of all my incomings and outgoings to see if I could afford the monthly payments, jiggled some stuff around to show that I could, but then looked at what I'd end up with if I didn't buy the car. Hence having daily drivers that are a bit older than average - my daily will be 23 in April, and I'll have had it for 20 years in a few weeks. (Although that's mainly because it's lasted OK).Now I'm concerned about putting the heating on for too long in a day, and there isn't really any reason for it. It's just a mindset that I have trouble overcoming, not wanting my smart meter to top the £10 per day mark.
Edited by droopsnoot on Tuesday 13th December 09:57
I'm sort of in that position myself, I'm 66 so over state pension age but still working full time. I was never able to have a sensible level of pension contributions (single income, mortgage, 2 kids and the 70's & 80's inflation period) so property and saving as much as I can at the moment as I no longer have any financial commitments (apart from the usual household bills).
I'm dreading giving up work and living on the state pension and spending savings so potentially becoming a miser
Make do and mend sounds good to me.
I'm dreading giving up work and living on the state pension and spending savings so potentially becoming a miser
Make do and mend sounds good to me.]
Being afraid of spending - especially discretionary spending, can have it's roots in not fully appreciating the benefits of whatever it is you're contemplating buying or not being able to decide between different product choices or a fear of being misled by a sales operative or seductive advertising campaign.
There might be a concern you're buying something you'll later regret because it turns out to be a pile of crap or you suddenly find you need to buy a ton more stuff to get it to work or you're not getting the customer support you need when it doesn't or you find out that no, actually I don't need really need whatever it is at all
It's definitely not just about being tight. There's a lot of suspicion and mistrust and potential buyer's remorse in there too.
ETA: And of course the most important point of all - If you're happy with a two grand car then why would you buy a twenty grand one?
Thin White Duke said:
but what about the opposite end of the spectrum - people who seem afraid to spend money.
That's an excellent point.Being afraid of spending - especially discretionary spending, can have it's roots in not fully appreciating the benefits of whatever it is you're contemplating buying or not being able to decide between different product choices or a fear of being misled by a sales operative or seductive advertising campaign.
There might be a concern you're buying something you'll later regret because it turns out to be a pile of crap or you suddenly find you need to buy a ton more stuff to get it to work or you're not getting the customer support you need when it doesn't or you find out that no, actually I don't need really need whatever it is at all
It's definitely not just about being tight. There's a lot of suspicion and mistrust and potential buyer's remorse in there too.
ETA: And of course the most important point of all - If you're happy with a two grand car then why would you buy a twenty grand one?
Edited by Jaguar steve on Tuesday 13th December 10:39
My 'old man' was the complete opposite, lived every day as it was his last, enjoyed a daily visit to the pub at lunchtime followed by a jaunt to the bookies, home for dinner and back to the pub, died at 84, if he didn't smoke and drink could have still been alive now.
Rip Dad
(bugger left me with his funeral bill too :-))
Rip Dad
(bugger left me with his funeral bill too :-))
I fall into the tight category (if you hadn't already guessed by my posts on the Heating thread).
You won't catch me at fancy restaurants.
I enjoy bangernomics (especially when the council don't grit the roads!).
But I do have some nice watches and a nice car as well as a shed.
So I guess I'm just a lot more careful with how I spend my money?
You won't catch me at fancy restaurants.
I enjoy bangernomics (especially when the council don't grit the roads!).
But I do have some nice watches and a nice car as well as a shed.
So I guess I'm just a lot more careful with how I spend my money?
Far Cough said:
There is no point being the richest bloke in the graveyard !
I think there's a good point in that.Obviously a stack of cash is no use to you anymore once you're six feet under but unselfishly providing what you can for your kids and grandkids will be an absolute game changer for them and doing so will help them provide for theirs.
So long as they don't put it all on Red or shove it up their noses that is...
Interesting thread this. I'm retired now and as shared in the retirement thread when I retired we created a 15-year financial plan to include future cars, holidays, kids' wedding, potential home improvements, changing the caravan and a large buffer. This has allowed us to still live a good life in retirement and plan a little until we get a state pension. I think we have the balance correct.
I have two friends who are tight as hell and have plenty of money etc.
Friend 1 is younger than me in his mid-fifties and still worked has cancer and is being told he only has weeks to live. His regret is not spending what he has sooner although he gets comfort knowing his wife won't have to worry. His words to me are "Live your life to the full and if you want something and can afford it just do it"
Friend 2 is very comfortable financially. Just got married in late fifties. Terrified of spending money. Has cheap holidays, runs a shed as his only car and lives very modestly. He admits he is tight but would rather his kids get his money than him spending it now.
All so different aren't we?
I have two friends who are tight as hell and have plenty of money etc.
Friend 1 is younger than me in his mid-fifties and still worked has cancer and is being told he only has weeks to live. His regret is not spending what he has sooner although he gets comfort knowing his wife won't have to worry. His words to me are "Live your life to the full and if you want something and can afford it just do it"
Friend 2 is very comfortable financially. Just got married in late fifties. Terrified of spending money. Has cheap holidays, runs a shed as his only car and lives very modestly. He admits he is tight but would rather his kids get his money than him spending it now.
All so different aren't we?
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