CBDC chips tinfoil hattery or a sinister attempt at control?
Discussion
something popped up on FB (there's a surprise!) and, on the face of it, it does seem like extreme tinfoil hattery. But is it that outlandish a worry that over the next couple of decades this might be a way to eliminate the 'black economy' and/or impose dictats from on high. Would such a scheme eventually bring about an unofficial physical currency or a return to some form of barter?
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/top-economist-ce...
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/top-economist-ce...
CBDC is going to happen,but look at it as a giant programable ledger of everything,of which the Banks and government have TOTAL control.Want a loan?Well it better fit their requirements.Want to sell a house?Is it up to their enviromental standards.Want to protest the government?Try putting petrol in your car,when the currency is under their control etc. etc.
It is not a conspiracy theory,look at Rishi video,or the B.O.E https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/the-digital-pound.
Be worried they want you to own nothing as they will have control of the ledger on which ALL the assets will be.
Is this the future you want ?
It is not a conspiracy theory,look at Rishi video,or the B.O.E https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/the-digital-pound.
Be worried they want you to own nothing as they will have control of the ledger on which ALL the assets will be.
Is this the future you want ?
lidds said:
CBDC is going to happen,but look at it as a giant programable ledger of everything,of which the Banks and government have TOTAL control.Want a loan?Well it better fit their requirements.Want to sell a house?Is it up to their enviromental standards.Want to protest the government?Try putting petrol in your car,when the currency is under their control etc. etc.
It is not a conspiracy theory,look at Rishi video,or the B.O.E https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/the-digital-pound.
Be worried they want you to own nothing as they will have control of the ledger on which ALL the assets will be.
Is this the future you want ?
Government can already be a pain in the arse in all these regards.It is not a conspiracy theory,look at Rishi video,or the B.O.E https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/the-digital-pound.
Be worried they want you to own nothing as they will have control of the ledger on which ALL the assets will be.
Is this the future you want ?
Go watch 'Trading Places' as a very loose fictional example and that was before "Digital Currency" in the current concept was even considered.
The problems will be the insidious influences that people are happy to turn a blind eye to again and again.
Bought too many sweets this month, then the next ones you buy will be 10% more. No ability to discriminate because you just had a kids party.
Oh but it's to 'save the children' so it's ok, but it's another chunk of cash for the government to piss up the wall on rubbish, while kids go on being fat any way. Ie, just an excuse to tax you more.
Or social scores, like you don't vote, and they want to encourage voting, so there is a surcharge on your council tax to force you into advocating for the flawed democratic model.
Or parking. You've driven too much this week. You could have done all your shopping in one big trip, not a little one each day, so your parking charge is higher as you're a nasty planet destroying human.
Yes, that's ok, save the planet... I'll pay the 50p surcharge today.
And then everyone pays more tax, and everyone 'does what they're told'
Then where do we go? Pandemic again? All payments blocked outside of 5 miles from where you live, or online?
No way to book holidays for kids outside of school holidays?
All fine in a utopia where our government want the best for everyone and believe in liberty. But terrifying when you imagine Jeremy Hunt, Rishi Sunak, Braverman, Boris, etc, making decisions... or Starmer, the Scottish one, etc.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: I'd perhaps reconsider your choice of where you get your news from.
really - are you telling me that there's no grain of truth to the thought behind this? I'd like to believe that it's tinfoil hattery in extremis - however I'm, sadly, too cynical to dismiss the thought out of hand...DodgyGeezer said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'd perhaps reconsider your choice of where you get your news from.
really - are you telling me that there's no grain of truth to the thought behind this? I'd like to believe that it's tinfoil hattery in extremis - however I'm, sadly, too cynical to dismiss the thought out of hand...Having one under your skin is the next logical step.
But then it comes with the whole host of issues around systems designed to trust this one thing.
If you lose your phone today, or it’s stolen, it’s a real faff to sort out.
And increasing biometric data use, which isn’t a secret, being used to prove you’re you.
That’s great until people spoof it. You can’t spoof a secret in your brain (yet)
I thing it’s benign, just like everything.
The problem will be where society might let it slip.
The tech is safe, sensible, possibly liberating and empowering.
But all the opposites are true.
Which is why I’ll say again, this is all about who we have in charge… NOT about the way we run what we have.
Tinfoil hattery of the first order. The RFID chip thingy ties in with US religious right wanting to see the “mark of the beast”, CBDC is the government jumping on the digital currency bandwagon without any clear idea of what it’s needed for.
For those worried that CBDC will control how many bottles of wine you will be able to buy each week, given the government’s track record on IT projects it’s unlikely they will ever get it to work even if they wanted to do so.
For those worried that CBDC will control how many bottles of wine you will be able to buy each week, given the government’s track record on IT projects it’s unlikely they will ever get it to work even if they wanted to do so.
DodgyGeezer said:
really - are you telling me that there's no grain of truth to the thought behind this? I'd like to believe that it's tinfoil hattery in extremis - however I'm, sadly, too cynical to dismiss the thought out of hand...
It's tinfoil hat stuff.I have no idea how people come up with these ideas.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:DodgyGeezer said:
really - are you telling me that there's no grain of truth to the thought behind this? I'd like to believe that it's tinfoil hattery in extremis - however I'm, sadly, too cynical to dismiss the thought out of hand...
It's tinfoil hat stuff.I have no idea how people come up with these ideas.
I’m assuming this one will hit their radar before the day is out.
Random Account No6 said:
There was a reasonably lengthy CBDC thread not that long ago and it did attract the usual conspiracy loons.
I’m assuming this one will hit their radar before the day is out.
Just to clarify?Is it just the chips in the hand or CBDC's that you think is tinfoil hattery?https://www.weforum.org/whitepapers/central-bank-digital-currency-global-interoperability-principles/I’m assuming this one will hit their radar before the day is out.
Random Account No6 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Having one under your skin is the next logical step.
No it isn’t.Back when I were a lad, I went out with a £10 note. I remembered a few phone numbers in my head if I needed them.
Today it's a wallet, ID, mobile phone, passwords.
What's next? Well for those that like this trend, it's going to be having everything around you ID you, so you don't carry anything with you and stuff just knows who you are and the appropriate transactions are made.
You could do that with biometrics but it's easy to spoof, fallible, and would cost a fortune to have retina scanners everywhere or gait scanners or whatever. It'll be more like a fancy RFID/NFC type device won't it... and then where do you put it so you can't lose it, drop it, have it stolen, etc? Under the skin.
While that article is a little OTT, I do think there are some credible concerns about what governments might choose to do in the future if they essentially have complete control over the flow of all money. Not just our government, but governments of the world.
The oft quoted example is the Canadian truckers during covid, but it is worth considering a few of the concerns before we just blindly accept that this is coming and a good idea, For example:
The argument for seems to fall along the lines of "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" and that is something that frightens me!
The oft quoted example is the Canadian truckers during covid, but it is worth considering a few of the concerns before we just blindly accept that this is coming and a good idea, For example:
- What if a government of the future decides to start taxing transactions at different levels based on who you are - i.e. it could be low / high rate tax payers, it could be locals / non-locals, it could be anything you can think of......
- What if governments start controlling behaviour based on pricing / access. You want drinks in a pub after 12 - pay 2X. All possible
- It could even be used to exclude whole sections of society from accessing certain things.
- etc etc
The argument for seems to fall along the lines of "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" and that is something that frightens me!
lidds said:
Random Account No6 said:
There was a reasonably lengthy CBDC thread not that long ago and it did attract the usual conspiracy loons.
I’m assuming this one will hit their radar before the day is out.
Just to clarify?Is it just the chips in the hand or CBDC's that you think is tinfoil hattery?https://www.weforum.org/whitepapers/central-bank-digital-currency-global-interoperability-principles/I’m assuming this one will hit their radar before the day is out.
It’s the idea that CBDC is going to be compulsory, and used to control how we all spend our money thats tin foil hattery.
When Bitcoin was all the rage some senior civil servant in the treasury got all excited after reading about it, and decided that implementing the treasury version would bathe next big thing. White papers and proposals have since been written in quantity as the usual suspects try to get a slice of this new pie.
The Tin foil hat brigade got hold of these proposals and twisted them to frighten their minions.
It’s a Government IT project, it will be late, massively over budget and will only deliver 1/2 of what was promised.
Mr Whippy said:
Random Account No6 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Having one under your skin is the next logical step.
No it isn’t.Back when I were a lad, I went out with a £10 note. I remembered a few phone numbers in my head if I needed them.
Today it's a wallet, ID, mobile phone, passwords.
What's next? Well for those that like this trend, it's going to be having everything around you ID you, so you don't carry anything with you and stuff just knows who you are and the appropriate transactions are made.
You could do that with biometrics but it's easy to spoof, fallible, and would cost a fortune to have retina scanners everywhere or gait scanners or whatever. It'll be more like a fancy RFID/NFC type device won't it... and then where do you put it so you can't lose it, drop it, have it stolen, etc? Under the skin.
MBBlat said:
It’s the idea that CBDC is going to be compulsory, and used to control how we all spend our money thats tin foil hattery.
When Bitcoin was all the rage some senior civil servant in the treasury got all excited after reading about it, and decided that implementing the treasury version would bathe next big thing. White papers and proposals have since been written in quantity as the usual suspects try to get a slice of this new pie.
The Tin foil hat brigade got hold of these proposals and twisted them to frighten their minions.
It’s a Government IT project, it will be late, massively over budget and will only deliver 1/2 of what was promised.
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