Buying a house, no solicitor or estate agent
Discussion
OK I want to buy a house. Cash purchase.
I know the owner and do not want any searches/survey etc doing.
I will not have a solicitor and there is no estate agent involved.
I just want to give/transfer them money and they give me the deeds or whatever and I tell the land/property registry.
Can I do this?
I know the owner and do not want any searches/survey etc doing.
I will not have a solicitor and there is no estate agent involved.
I just want to give/transfer them money and they give me the deeds or whatever and I tell the land/property registry.
Can I do this?
Yes, if you are feeling brave!
The appropriate forms for Land Registry transfer are available from them (free) and you will just need a standard contract to fill out.
I did it recently……on a standalone garage worth £5K, if we would have used EA’s and Sols it would have wiped out any money!
Would I do I on a house? Not in a million years! I’d happily forego the searches and survey but would employ a Solicitor fir contract & LR transfer!
Jim
The appropriate forms for Land Registry transfer are available from them (free) and you will just need a standard contract to fill out.
I did it recently……on a standalone garage worth £5K, if we would have used EA’s and Sols it would have wiped out any money!
Would I do I on a house? Not in a million years! I’d happily forego the searches and survey but would employ a Solicitor fir contract & LR transfer!
Jim
My issue would be the owner not being of sound mind or there being 3rd party interest in the title.
The rest of the stuff the solicitor does on a cash deal you can defo DIY but those 2 things are kind of critical.
You can mitigate by having the seller use a solicitor but as said above you might run into a road block.
IANAL.
The rest of the stuff the solicitor does on a cash deal you can defo DIY but those 2 things are kind of critical.
You can mitigate by having the seller use a solicitor but as said above you might run into a road block.
IANAL.
IAALB(obviously)NYL(because you don't want one), but I would say you should get a conveyancer.
A few points in no particular order....
Aside from the risk of not knowing whether there are any third-party interests in the property that might (will) rank ahead of you, do you know if the property is in mortgage or not, other is otherwise charged? 3 quid for the Official Copies (Deeds as many still call them) from the Land Registry Website will confirm this.
Do you plan to do an OS1 search immediately before handing over (presumably) quarter of a million plus? Do you know how to? - to make sure the owner hasn't taken a mortgage leading to a legal charge against the property or sold it it to someone else just before you complete?
Searches (Local Authority Search, Drainage & Water, Environmental and Chancel Liability check as a bare minimum) would cost you £350 - £450 depending on the cost of the Local Search - this varies significantly from one LA to another.
A cheapo "conveyancing warehouse" would probably quote you £1,100 - £1,200 for this work including the searches, meaning their actual fee is only £700 or £800.
When you come to register the transfer and send in the Transfer Deed (TR1) as part of your application to have the property registered in your name, you will need to complete a paper AP1 form (because I don't suspect you have a Land Registry ePortal account through which to make the application...)
On the AP1 you will have to give the details off the parties' legal representatives. You won't be able to legitimately write anything in here, and the Land Registration Rules would then require you both to submit complete ID1 forms along with your TR1 and AP1.
You will both need to go and see a solicitor or conveyancer with a current valid Practicing Certificate in order to have your ID verified to the satisfaction of the Land Registry - this will cost you both - a solicitor will not do this for a box of Krispee Kremes. The reason for this is, contrary to the the popular belief that we're all money-grabbing b
ds, there is a risk, however small, that we will get sued in negligence if something goes wrong.
Annual PI Insurance premiums, even for firms that do very low-volumes of conveyancing work can run to £80,000. Which mean solicitors don't like taking on risk when they aren't getting paid.
When was the last time you submitted a SDLT Return? Do you have an account for this with HMRC? This needs to be done in 14 days, or you'll get stung. Interest starts running automatically. If I am not in funds to pay the SDLT on the day of Completion, I do not complete - no exceptions...
The Land Registry will (probably take a few months minimum to ) spit your application back to you if you do not submit along with a SDLT5 Certificate that details the unique transaction number for the transfer of the property to you, from which they can check with HMRC that you have paid the correct SDLT to HMRC within two weeks of Completion of the transfer.
It's easy for me to say - I do this regularly, but for CommProp tranactions, but for Christ's sake get a solicitor to do it - you'll have someone to sue if it goes belly-up. (not me though residential conveyancing bores the tits off of me, and I won't do it for anything like £1,200 because I don't have a team of 10 unqualified "conveyancing assistants" doing the donkey work for minimum wage...)
The above are steps you a GUARANTEED to have to take. The worst-case scenario doesn't bear thinking about.
I'll leave it there...
Edited to add....
Is the property even registered land? If not, the transfer will trigger compulsory first registration, meaning you will need to not only send full size, fully legible copies of the original deeds by post, but also trawl through the ye-olde prose to make sense of what has happened over the years, and fill in forms telling HMLR the history of the property/conveyances as far back as they go. This is a TOTAL PITA even when you know what you're doing - I would rather stick pins in my eyes than attempt a 1st registration as a layperson...
A few points in no particular order....
Aside from the risk of not knowing whether there are any third-party interests in the property that might (will) rank ahead of you, do you know if the property is in mortgage or not, other is otherwise charged? 3 quid for the Official Copies (Deeds as many still call them) from the Land Registry Website will confirm this.
Do you plan to do an OS1 search immediately before handing over (presumably) quarter of a million plus? Do you know how to? - to make sure the owner hasn't taken a mortgage leading to a legal charge against the property or sold it it to someone else just before you complete?
Searches (Local Authority Search, Drainage & Water, Environmental and Chancel Liability check as a bare minimum) would cost you £350 - £450 depending on the cost of the Local Search - this varies significantly from one LA to another.
A cheapo "conveyancing warehouse" would probably quote you £1,100 - £1,200 for this work including the searches, meaning their actual fee is only £700 or £800.
When you come to register the transfer and send in the Transfer Deed (TR1) as part of your application to have the property registered in your name, you will need to complete a paper AP1 form (because I don't suspect you have a Land Registry ePortal account through which to make the application...)
On the AP1 you will have to give the details off the parties' legal representatives. You won't be able to legitimately write anything in here, and the Land Registration Rules would then require you both to submit complete ID1 forms along with your TR1 and AP1.
You will both need to go and see a solicitor or conveyancer with a current valid Practicing Certificate in order to have your ID verified to the satisfaction of the Land Registry - this will cost you both - a solicitor will not do this for a box of Krispee Kremes. The reason for this is, contrary to the the popular belief that we're all money-grabbing b
ds, there is a risk, however small, that we will get sued in negligence if something goes wrong. Annual PI Insurance premiums, even for firms that do very low-volumes of conveyancing work can run to £80,000. Which mean solicitors don't like taking on risk when they aren't getting paid.
When was the last time you submitted a SDLT Return? Do you have an account for this with HMRC? This needs to be done in 14 days, or you'll get stung. Interest starts running automatically. If I am not in funds to pay the SDLT on the day of Completion, I do not complete - no exceptions...
The Land Registry will (probably take a few months minimum to ) spit your application back to you if you do not submit along with a SDLT5 Certificate that details the unique transaction number for the transfer of the property to you, from which they can check with HMRC that you have paid the correct SDLT to HMRC within two weeks of Completion of the transfer.
It's easy for me to say - I do this regularly, but for CommProp tranactions, but for Christ's sake get a solicitor to do it - you'll have someone to sue if it goes belly-up. (not me though residential conveyancing bores the tits off of me, and I won't do it for anything like £1,200 because I don't have a team of 10 unqualified "conveyancing assistants" doing the donkey work for minimum wage...)
The above are steps you a GUARANTEED to have to take. The worst-case scenario doesn't bear thinking about.
I'll leave it there...
Edited to add....
Is the property even registered land? If not, the transfer will trigger compulsory first registration, meaning you will need to not only send full size, fully legible copies of the original deeds by post, but also trawl through the ye-olde prose to make sense of what has happened over the years, and fill in forms telling HMLR the history of the property/conveyances as far back as they go. This is a TOTAL PITA even when you know what you're doing - I would rather stick pins in my eyes than attempt a 1st registration as a layperson...
Edited by NicoG on Wednesday 25th October 16:41
Edited by NicoG on Wednesday 25th October 16:45
Again appreciate the advice.
I will likely get a solicitor in the end but was interested in the difficulties that could/may arise without one.
It's a £150,000 semi detached bungalow in a cul-de-sac where I already live two doors away.
Owner recently deceased. Being sold by daughter. Bigger garden etc.
Mortgage free. No chain. I'm a cash buyer.
I will apply for the land reg documents etc.
It does have a covenant and easement (very likely) same as mine but of course will be checked.
I will likely get a solicitor in the end but was interested in the difficulties that could/may arise without one.
It's a £150,000 semi detached bungalow in a cul-de-sac where I already live two doors away.
Owner recently deceased. Being sold by daughter. Bigger garden etc.
Mortgage free. No chain. I'm a cash buyer.
I will apply for the land reg documents etc.
It does have a covenant and easement (very likely) same as mine but of course will be checked.
Edited by peterperkins on Wednesday 25th October 17:08
Many years ago I read a book about it and intended to do my own conveyancing on my first house purchase.
That was until the mortgage company said there was some aspect I had to pay a solicitor for, which on its own would have cost a large proportion of the standard conveyancing fees.
Not 100% sure what book it was but could have been this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buying-Selling-Conveyanci...
That was until the mortgage company said there was some aspect I had to pay a solicitor for, which on its own would have cost a large proportion of the standard conveyancing fees.
Not 100% sure what book it was but could have been this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buying-Selling-Conveyanci...
NicoG said:
IAALB(obviously)NYL(because you don't want one), but I would say you should get a conveyancer.
A few points in no particular order....
Aside from the risk of not knowing whether there are any third-party interests in the property that might (will) rank ahead of you, do you know if the property is in mortgage or not, other is otherwise charged? 3 quid for the Official Copies (Deeds as many still call them) from the Land Registry Website will confirm this.
Do you plan to do an OS1 search immediately before handing over (presumably) quarter of a million plus? Do you know how to? - to make sure the owner hasn't taken a mortgage leading to a legal charge against the property or sold it it to someone else just before you complete?
Searches (Local Authority Search, Drainage & Water, Environmental and Chancel Liability check as a bare minimum) would cost you £350 - £450 depending on the cost of the Local Search - this varies significantly from one LA to another.
A cheapo "conveyancing warehouse" would probably quote you £1,100 - £1,200 for this work including the searches, meaning their actual fee is only £700 or £800.
When you come to register the transfer and send in the Transfer Deed (TR1) as part of your application to have the property registered in your name, you will need to complete a paper AP1 form (because I don't suspect you have a Land Registry ePortal account through which to make the application...)
On the AP1 you will have to give the details off the parties' legal representatives. You won't be able to legitimately write anything in here, and the Land Registration Rules would then require you both to submit complete ID1 forms along with your TR1 and AP1.
You will both need to go and see a solicitor or conveyancer with a current valid Practicing Certificate in order to have your ID verified to the satisfaction of the Land Registry - this will cost you both - a solicitor will not do this for a box of Krispee Kremes. The reason for this is, contrary to the the popular belief that we're all money-grabbing bds, there is a risk, however small, that we will get sued in negligence if something goes wrong.
Annual PI Insurance premiums, even for firms that do very low-volumes of conveyancing work can run to £80,000. Which mean solicitors don't like taking on risk when they aren't getting paid.
When was the last time you submitted a SDLT Return? Do you have an account for this with HMRC? This needs to be done in 14 days, or you'll get stung. Interest starts running automatically. If I am not in funds to pay the SDLT on the day of Completion, I do not complete - no exceptions...
The Land Registry will (probably take a few months minimum to ) spit your application back to you if you do not submit along with a SDLT5 Certificate that details the unique transaction number for the transfer of the property to you, from which they can check with HMRC that you have paid the correct SDLT to HMRC within two weeks of Completion of the transfer.
It's easy for me to say - I do this regularly, but for CommProp tranactions, but for Christ's sake get a solicitor to do it - you'll have someone to sue if it goes belly-up. (not me though residential conveyancing bores the tits off of me, and I won't do it for anything like £1,200 because I don't have a team of 10 unqualified "conveyancing assistants" doing the donkey work for minimum wage...)
The above are steps you a GUARANTEED to have to take. The worst-case scenario doesn't bear thinking about.
I'll leave it there...
Edited to add....
Is the property even registered land? If not, the transfer will trigger compulsory first registration, meaning you will need to not only send full size, fully legible copies of the original deeds by post, but also trawl through the ye-olde prose to make sense of what has happened over the years, and fill in forms telling HMLR the history of the property/conveyances as far back as they go. This is a TOTAL PITA even when you know what you're doing - I would rather stick pins in my eyes than attempt a 1st registration as a layperson...
Good postA few points in no particular order....
Aside from the risk of not knowing whether there are any third-party interests in the property that might (will) rank ahead of you, do you know if the property is in mortgage or not, other is otherwise charged? 3 quid for the Official Copies (Deeds as many still call them) from the Land Registry Website will confirm this.
Do you plan to do an OS1 search immediately before handing over (presumably) quarter of a million plus? Do you know how to? - to make sure the owner hasn't taken a mortgage leading to a legal charge against the property or sold it it to someone else just before you complete?
Searches (Local Authority Search, Drainage & Water, Environmental and Chancel Liability check as a bare minimum) would cost you £350 - £450 depending on the cost of the Local Search - this varies significantly from one LA to another.
A cheapo "conveyancing warehouse" would probably quote you £1,100 - £1,200 for this work including the searches, meaning their actual fee is only £700 or £800.
When you come to register the transfer and send in the Transfer Deed (TR1) as part of your application to have the property registered in your name, you will need to complete a paper AP1 form (because I don't suspect you have a Land Registry ePortal account through which to make the application...)
On the AP1 you will have to give the details off the parties' legal representatives. You won't be able to legitimately write anything in here, and the Land Registration Rules would then require you both to submit complete ID1 forms along with your TR1 and AP1.
You will both need to go and see a solicitor or conveyancer with a current valid Practicing Certificate in order to have your ID verified to the satisfaction of the Land Registry - this will cost you both - a solicitor will not do this for a box of Krispee Kremes. The reason for this is, contrary to the the popular belief that we're all money-grabbing b
ds, there is a risk, however small, that we will get sued in negligence if something goes wrong. Annual PI Insurance premiums, even for firms that do very low-volumes of conveyancing work can run to £80,000. Which mean solicitors don't like taking on risk when they aren't getting paid.
When was the last time you submitted a SDLT Return? Do you have an account for this with HMRC? This needs to be done in 14 days, or you'll get stung. Interest starts running automatically. If I am not in funds to pay the SDLT on the day of Completion, I do not complete - no exceptions...
The Land Registry will (probably take a few months minimum to ) spit your application back to you if you do not submit along with a SDLT5 Certificate that details the unique transaction number for the transfer of the property to you, from which they can check with HMRC that you have paid the correct SDLT to HMRC within two weeks of Completion of the transfer.
It's easy for me to say - I do this regularly, but for CommProp tranactions, but for Christ's sake get a solicitor to do it - you'll have someone to sue if it goes belly-up. (not me though residential conveyancing bores the tits off of me, and I won't do it for anything like £1,200 because I don't have a team of 10 unqualified "conveyancing assistants" doing the donkey work for minimum wage...)
The above are steps you a GUARANTEED to have to take. The worst-case scenario doesn't bear thinking about.
I'll leave it there...
Edited to add....
Is the property even registered land? If not, the transfer will trigger compulsory first registration, meaning you will need to not only send full size, fully legible copies of the original deeds by post, but also trawl through the ye-olde prose to make sense of what has happened over the years, and fill in forms telling HMLR the history of the property/conveyances as far back as they go. This is a TOTAL PITA even when you know what you're doing - I would rather stick pins in my eyes than attempt a 1st registration as a layperson...
Edited by NicoG on Wednesday 25th October 16:41
Edited by NicoG on Wednesday 25th October 16:45
I echo NicoG’s post. Should probably be stickied because this question comes up all the time.
Since I get to set policy for my firm, we won’t do ID1 forms for anyone but existing clients - and if they are existing clients why are they doing a transaction without our advice? - because of the risks associated. The Land Registry does phone up the solicitor who verified the ID documents. What if a forged passport and bill were produced, for example? By facilitating the transaction the verifying solicitor cannot avoid being implicated if anything goes wrong - meaning a call to the insurers and notifying the SRA. Even if we charged a few hundred pounds for doing verification it wouldn’t justify the risk. Many firms have a similar policy.
Additionally, I assume you (OP) own a house already. So there will be Stamp Duty Land Tax to pay and it’s going to be a substantial sum - much more than legal fees. I think it’s a false economy to proceed without a solicitor to deal with this sort of thing for you. There is a very real risk you end up paying £150k and not getting legal title to the property.
Since I get to set policy for my firm, we won’t do ID1 forms for anyone but existing clients - and if they are existing clients why are they doing a transaction without our advice? - because of the risks associated. The Land Registry does phone up the solicitor who verified the ID documents. What if a forged passport and bill were produced, for example? By facilitating the transaction the verifying solicitor cannot avoid being implicated if anything goes wrong - meaning a call to the insurers and notifying the SRA. Even if we charged a few hundred pounds for doing verification it wouldn’t justify the risk. Many firms have a similar policy.
Additionally, I assume you (OP) own a house already. So there will be Stamp Duty Land Tax to pay and it’s going to be a substantial sum - much more than legal fees. I think it’s a false economy to proceed without a solicitor to deal with this sort of thing for you. There is a very real risk you end up paying £150k and not getting legal title to the property.
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff